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RE: Jena 6 Day - 6/26/2009 5:43:03 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

Even if the statement is true, there's no justifying the attack.  But it wouldn't be the first time such a statement was forced as part of a plea deal.
Now you are getting into the realm of the surreal. The 6 admit they attacked the kid, they admit that the kid did nothing to provoke the attack....and you assume they were forced to admit that?? Tell me, just what is the point of a criminal justice system in your eye? Why are you so damned sure that the victem did something, when the attackers say he didn't? 

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 6/26/2009 5:56:38 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

i left NY and went to Alabama, where i lived for 8 years. It was quite an education in injustice in America. You'll pardon me if i approach such admissions with skepticism.


Iron, I've been to the NYC metro area.  New York is one of the most self-segregated cities in America.  I grew up and lived around black kids.  Most of us that grew up in small towns in the South did.  Yeah, there was racism.  I heard the word, "nigger" thrown around like it was no big deal.  It was a big deal in my house.  My mother grew up on the Alabama/Georgia line during the late 40's and the 50's.  She would have slapped me in the face if I said that.  Her words exactly:  "Only ignorant, backwoods trash use that word.  We are made of better stuff than that."  But don't tell me that racism and bigotry doesn't exist in the enlightened northeast section of our country.  The South isn't perfect, but we've cleaned up a lot in the last 40 years. 

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 6/26/2009 6:04:19 PM   
lronitulstahp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Even if the statement is true, there's no justifying the attack.  But it wouldn't be the first time such a statement was forced as part of a plea deal.
Now you are getting into the realm of the surreal. The 6 admit they attacked the kid, they admit that the kid did nothing to provoke the attack....and you assume they were forced to admit that?? Tell me, just what is the point of a criminal justice system in your eye? Why are you so damned sure that the victem did something, when the attackers say he didn't? 
Actually i'm not DAMNED sure about anything, too much has transpired, and too many different eyewitnesses claim too many different things.  i don't assume shit.However,  you presume to know what i feel and quite emotionally so,  i might add.   my point was: we may never know what truly happened, and this statement may be coerced considering how many statements have been made by so many regarding this case.

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 6/26/2009 6:17:06 PM   
lronitulstahp


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quote:

But don't tell me that racism and bigotry doesn't exist in the enlightened northeast section of our country


i wouldn't dare do such a thing, but i can say this, and only draw from my own experience, as you have from yours. It wasn't as blatant, or acceptable. Not that racism cloaked or hidden is preferable...but ignorance, in some cases, is bliss.

If i didn't have some tendre for the South, i wouldn't have made it my home for 14 years. That being said, being pulled over for suspicion of stealing your own car...having the police detain you until you can prove you're not breaking into your own house because you don't look like your neighbors, that shit never gets old. And no matter how hard you try, or how open-minded you may be(and ask anyone on CM that knows me personally: i don't act like the world owes me a sandwich) that sort of treatment changes a person.

~damned yankee tulip

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 6/26/2009 6:47:48 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

If i didn't have some tendre for the South, i wouldn't have made it my home for 14 years. That being said, being pulled over for suspicion of stealing your own car...having the police detain you until you can prove you're not breaking into your own house because you don't look like your neighbors, that shit never gets old. And no matter how hard you try, or how open-minded you may be(and ask anyone on CM that knows me personally: i don't act like the world owes me a sandwich) that sort of treatment changes a person.


Iron darlin', I've been pulled over and threatened with jail when I refuse to allow the deputy to search my car.  Small town cops get bored, and they will pull people over for anything.  I know young black males get this more than young white males (I'll tell you a story in a second), but young males in general are targets of the police.  The overwhelming majority of the prisons in this state are filled with young white males.  I know, I've visited 3 when my brother was locked up.  I've visited a female minimum security prison this year several times to see my friend.  It's 75% white. 

Now on to my story.  I know black males get the shit end of the stick with law enforcement.  It's wrong, but it's not just us Southernors that deal with it.  I've seen stories all across this great land of ours.  When I was about 22, four of my friends and I were coming home from fishing.  It was about 3 in the morning.  All of us had been drinking except the driver.  One of our friends was a black guy we grew up with, Dion.  He lived next door to my other friend, Nick.  When we got pulled over, guess who they ordered out of the car?  It was Dion.  Our friend Robin was driving.  Keep in mind, the rest of were pretty tipsy, including Dion.  Hey we were fishing, beer and fishing go together like macaroni and cheese.  Anyway, we all kidded Dion when he got pulled out first.  We were all laughing, including him.  Nothing happened, we all got searched for contraband.  We were all allowed to go on our way.  We were in our early 20's, so we took that bullshit with humor.  It was wrong, and I can't imagine how he felt when that asshole picked him as the first out of the car.  But we don't know anything.  We just didn't want to go to jail.  Now a days, I'd say something.  I encourage anyone to stand up to that kind of bullshit, even if it means spending the night in jail. 

But again, this is not an event that only happens in the South.  It happens everywhere in America.  Thankfully, it happens a lot less than it did 40 years ago.  40 years ago, the cop would have beat the shit out of him and us for being drunk together. 

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 6/26/2009 6:48:57 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp
i don't support black people using racially derogatory statements towards whites or anyone else, but to compare comedians jokes to the symbolism of a lynching rope hanging from a tree is just insane....


What I'm comparing is at its core the same. Sure, blacks don't have anything they can "hang" but words and racism are words and racism. If I can't call a black person "black boy" why can he call me "white boy" and I have to take it and laugh?

All in all, racism is racism. It doesn't matter how it's represented.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp
i don't condone violence as a way to settle centuries old problems, but i understand the kind of rage that fuels these sort of attacks. It's a rage i would turn into poetry, or song, or a primal scream...now.  But when i was 13 years old, and a boy called me a "n____r " in class, it was the same kind of rage that caused me to turn him and his desk over and beat the shit out of him. i don't condone it, but i sure as hell understand it.


Exactly my point. Growing up, I heard "crazy white boy" this and "cracker" that. I couldn't respond the way you did, though. It's just not done, then *or* now. I see black comedians bashing whites...but oh no...you don't DARE see a white comedian do the same to blacks lest he be shunned by everyone and end up a headline.


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RE: Jena 6 Day - 6/26/2009 8:38:56 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Even if the statement is true, there's no justifying the attack.  But it wouldn't be the first time such a statement was forced as part of a plea deal.
Now you are getting into the realm of the surreal. The 6 admit they attacked the kid, they admit that the kid did nothing to provoke the attack....and you assume they were forced to admit that?? Tell me, just what is the point of a criminal justice system in your eye? Why are you so damned sure that the victem did something, when the attackers say he didn't? 


If the 6 had really done it with no provocation the DA wouldn't have let them plead nolo contendre to a misdemeanor. The Da offered them that deal and a judge signed off on it. No way does that happen if it really was an unprovoked attack. There was some mitigating circumstance powerful enough that the DA didn't want to deal with it in open court.

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 6/27/2009 12:51:33 PM   
JohnSteed1967


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Status: offline 		Here's the Thing:

    I don't care if your White, Black or Purple,

 GET A FREAKING GRIP!
Black people got screwed for Years! but Ya know what, My ancestors Jacob and Antointte sold themselves into slavery to get into this country and his wife died during the crossing! I don't go around griping about how someone else is Keeping me down and preventing me from doing anything.

Black people use the color of their skin as a crutch! Grow up and move on its 2009


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RE: Jena 6 Day - 6/27/2009 2:24:14 PM   
lronitulstahp


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quote:

Black people use the color of their skin as a crutch!

 Way to make a blanket statement, genius......

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 6/27/2009 2:48:25 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

Even if the statement is true, there's no justifying the attack.  But it wouldn't be the first time such a statement was forced as part of a plea deal.

They're luckier than a lot of people who never even GET a plea deal...
i left NY and went to Alabama, where i lived for 8 years. It was quite an education in injustice in America. You'll pardon me if i approach such admissions with skepticism.


So, if I understand this correctly, no matter what they have done or what they have admitted to doing, there has to be some justification for even their confessions to those actions?

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 6/27/2009 2:49:47 PM >

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 6/27/2009 2:57:47 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

If the 6 had really done it with no provocation the DA wouldn't have let them plead nolo contendre to a misdemeanor. The Da offered them that deal and a judge signed off on it. No way does that happen if it really was an unprovoked attack. There was some mitigating circumstance powerful enough that the DA didn't want to deal with it in open court.


It happens all the time.

The mitigating circumstance was the racially-charged environment surrounding the case.

Most district attorneys are politicians first and prosecutors second.

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 6/27/2009 2:58:57 PM   
lronitulstahp


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quote:

Even if the statement is true, there's no justifying the attack
it's actually  in the post you quoted.... 'da fuck?!?1

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 6/27/2009 3:01:22 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

Even if the statement is true, there's no justifying the attack
it's actually  in the post you quoted.... 'da fuck?!?1


I believe what he's trying to ask you is that, despite all that's transpired in court, you seem to feel there was some ulterior motive in their plea and acknowledgement of guilt.


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RE: Jena 6 Day - 6/27/2009 3:06:33 PM   
lronitulstahp


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Status: offline 		Are you reading this thread last post made at a time and skipping a few in between or something?
My point is for the final fricking time, is that there is a c-h-a-n-c-e that that is so. That none of us know for sure. That there are far too many eyewitness accounts, and that it has happened in several cases, that a statement given as part of a plea deal is influenced by outside sources.

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 6/27/2009 3:08:43 PM   
rulemylife


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Status: offline 		Yet you went on to offer your theory that the plea agreements were not valid and somehow coerced.

(by the way, I don't have any vision problems so the enlarged type is not necessary)

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 6/27/2009 3:17:24 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

Are you reading this thread last post made at a time and skipping a few in between or something?
My point is for the final fricking time, is that there is a c-h-a-n-c-e that that is so. That none of us know for sure. That there are far too many eyewitness accounts, and that it has happened in several cases, that a statement given as part of a plea deal is influenced by outside sources.


Yes, we do know for sure.  As sure as the criminal justice system gets.  If you confess to something and accept the plea agreement then you are considered guilty in the eyes of the law.

There is no what if, or possibly, or chance that it is not so.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 6/27/2009 3:20:34 PM >

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 6/27/2009 3:21:31 PM   
lronitulstahp


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Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline 		i find it interesting that you claim to have no vision problems yet totally missed my words, though you quoted them...hence causing my feeling that perhaps you were in fact somehow slightly visually impaired.

As far as my having a "theory", it's hardly that subversive. It's common practice. Read DomKen's posts and perhaps you'll realize it's not some outlandish "theory" as you seem to want to infer.

And i am as i stated earlier, i am  done going in circles. Contrary to Prince's song, there is no joy in repetition. Any of my earlier posts already contained this information.



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RE: Jena 6 Day - 6/27/2009 3:25:55 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

If the 6 had really done it with no provocation the DA wouldn't have let them plead nolo contendre to a misdemeanor. The Da offered them that deal and a judge signed off on it. No way does that happen if it really was an unprovoked attack. There was some mitigating circumstance powerful enough that the DA didn't want to deal with it in open court.


It happens all the time.

The mitigating circumstance was the racially-charged environment surrounding the case.

Most district attorneys are politicians first and prosecutors second.


The bad politics in this case is letting the 6 young men plead and walk away. No way does that local DA take a chance on sacrificing his career unless he knows the trial will be an even bigger political disaster.

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 6/27/2009 4:25:19 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp


As far as my having a "theory", it's hardly that subversive. It's common practice. Read DomKen's posts and perhaps you'll realize it's not some outlandish "theory" as you seem to want to infer.

And i am as i stated earlier, i am  done going in circles. Contrary to Prince's song, there is no joy in repetition. Any of my earlier posts already contained this information.


Well I have read his posts here, should I be any more convinced that you are right because he agrees with you, or are you implying he has some expert knowledge of the case?

As far as your earlier posts, the only things they contained were your opinion of the situation, which is not something that provides any informational value, other than to let us know what you believe.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 6/27/2009 4:26:14 PM >

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 6/27/2009 4:28:25 PM   
rulemylife


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Status: offline 		If I'm understanding your reply, that's what I meant.

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