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RE: Jena 6 Day - 9/22/2007 12:53:53 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
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A noose hanging from a tree is no more a justification for violence being inflicted than being part of an interracial couple.

Perhaps it is that I am trained in martial arts but unless your life or someone else's life is directly theatened you keep your hands to yourself. Once the threat has been neutralized, you stop the attack. Period. End of story. With six vs one, it would have been easy to restrain the one if their lives were actually in danger.

Racial tensions are no excuse for inflicting violence regardless of skin color. It doesn't sound like anyone was a victim here.

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(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: Jena 6 Day - 9/22/2007 12:57:47 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Nods.No one has clean hands,here.

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 9/22/2007 12:59:37 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline 		CAN ANYONE OF THE JENA DEFENDERS tell me.... How would you punished  a group who forms a lynch mob and doles out their own brand vigilante justice?




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RE: Jena 6 Day - 9/22/2007 1:00:53 PM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

CAN ANYONE OF THE JENA DEFENDERS tell me.... How would you punished  a group who forms a lynch mob and doles out their own brand vigilante justice?






You`d have to ask one.

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 9/22/2007 1:08:33 PM   
SugarMyChurro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Nods.No one has clean hands,here.


I think the real culprits are the authorities - in school and in town. They really needed to be more proactive about things to nip this shit in the bud. Because they didn't do that (and prosecute some white kids for being racist hooligans), now this situation - with assholes on both sides - has a life of its own.

No one is saying that the Jena 6 are models of virtue or even justified. We are just saying that the law has been anything but blind or impartial here. We can identify selective prosecution when we see it.

This is exactly why people get juries - because the law, the prosecutors and the police force are not enough. The activities of the watchmen gets checked by a jury ideally of one's peers - was the process fair? If not, maybe you get off - not because you are innocent necessarily, but because your actions may have been necessary or excusable in some way.


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RE: Jena 6 Day - 9/22/2007 1:15:44 PM   
SugarMyChurro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
How would you punished  a group who forms a lynch mob and doles out their own brand vigilante justice?


Do you have any grasp of reality at all? That's the craziest hypothetical I've ever seen...

In what way is a lynch mob representative of justice? If that is somehow your big point, I refer you again to the context of the case...

Why were the kids that hung nooses merely slapped on the wrist?

Why weren't the kids that beat up the party crashers prosecuted for assault?

Why wasn't the kid that pulled a shotgun out not prosecuted in some manner? To me, a shotgun is a very serious threat of bodily injury. A shotgun has killing potential even when aimed poorly - it's scattershot.

You would wipe the slate clean for all but the black kids, who by that time were probably feeling quite intimidated and responded in an explosive manner.

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 9/22/2007 1:37:04 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Blows to the head ARE attempted MURDER.  I had 6 blows to the head as well. BY A WHITE GUY. And the law handled it.

It took over a year to heal from the concussions!

Head injuries are very serious!
I would fry the perps  regardless of their color.

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 9/22/2007 2:27:14 PM   
Blaakmaan


Posts: 374
Joined: 5/21/2007
Status: offline 		Forming a lynch mob?

Oh, please...

Persons who are victims of "lynch mobs" seldom attend school functions the night after the lynch mob attacks them...

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 9/22/2007 4:53:10 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
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Status: offline 		It was exactly a lynch mob and he attetended an emergency room right after they beat him.

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 9/22/2007 5:50:23 PM   
deadbluebird


Posts: 265
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline 		i dont understand the mentality that mentions how he attended a party that night, as if it makes the actions mean any less, so they got LUCKY and he didnt die or suffer any long lasting brain damage, that Does Not Take Away From The Actions.
Just because a little girl suffers no long lasting damage from being molested by a man dosnt make that man any less guilty of molesting her.


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RE: Jena 6 Day - 9/22/2007 6:12:30 PM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: deadbluebird

i dont understand the mentality that mentions how he attended a party that night, as if it makes the actions mean any less, so they got LUCKY and he didnt die or suffer any long lasting brain damage, that Does Not Take Away From The Actions.
Just because a little girl suffers no long lasting damage from being molested by a man dosnt make that man any less guilty of molesting her.




i dont understand
 
 
Yup.

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 9/22/2007 7:39:16 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Other points of interest:

-----

A few of the black athletes, the stars of the football team, took the lead in resisting. The day after the nooses were hung, they reportedly organized a silent protest under the tree.

The school called an assembly and summoned the police and the district attorney. Black students sat on one side, whites on the other. District Attorney Reed Walters warned the students he could be their friend or their worst enemy. He lifted his fountain pen and said, "With one stroke of my pen, I can make your life disappear."

That evening, black students told their parents that the DA was looking right at them. Walters denies that. Billy Fowler, a member of the school board, doesn't believe it, either.

"He said some pretty strong things," says Fowler, "but I don't think he was directing it to anyone in particular. I think he just wanted people to calm it down."

But things didn't calm down. Some whites felt triumphant; some blacks were resentful. Fights began to break out at the high school. But that year, the football team was having an unusually good season and the black athletes were a major reason why. So while there were fights throughout the fall, nobody wanted to take any action that would hurt the team.

When the season was over, so was the truce. On Nov. 30, somebody burned down Jena High. Whites thought blacks were responsible, blacks thought the opposite.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12353776

-----

Washington said FBI agents who went to Jena in September to investigate the noose report, and other federal officials who examined what happened, concluded it "had all the markings of a hate crime."

The incident wasn't prosecuted as such because it didn't meet the federal standards required for the teens to be certified as adults, Washington said. A court makes the final decision on whether to drop their juvenile status.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/09/19/jena.six.link/index.html

-----

Charges of attempted murder have been reduced to aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to commit that crime for four of the five teens charged as adults - Bell, Robert Bailey Jr., Carwin Jones and Theo Shaw. Bryant Purvis has not yet been arraigned.

Jesse Ray Beard, who was 14 at the time of his arrest, is being tried in juvenile court, which isn't open to the public.

On June 28, Bell was convicted by an all-white jury of aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to commit the same.

The court had summoned 150 people for the jury pool, but only 50 showed up -- none of whom were black, court officials said.

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070917/NEWS01/709170320/1060/NEWS01

-----

The aggravated battery charge against Bell involved the use of a dangerous weapon. Although no evidence of a gun, knife or other weapon was introduced, Walters argued, and the jury agreed, that the tennis shoes Bell was wearing at the time of the attack qualified as a dangerous weapon.

There were inconsistencies in the testimony of prosecution witnesses. Some said they saw Bell strike the victim in the face during a melee outside the gym, others said Bell struck the victim in the back, while still others said they were not sure Bell was involved.

Bell's court-appointed public defender, Blane Williams, had urged the teenager to accept a plea bargain on the eve of the trial, but Bell declined. Williams, who is black, did not challenge the composition of the jury pool, which included no African-Americans, and the defense rested without calling any witnesses. He also excluded the teenager's parents from the courtroom.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-jena_witt.1jun29,1,1872156.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

-----

Mychal Bell, who was 16 at the time of the December beating, should not have been tried as an adult on the battery charge, the state Third Circuit Court of Appeal in Lake Charles ruled.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20779755/

-----

BTW, the "pen incident" was the same guy - La Salle Parish district attorney, J. Reed Walters - that would later prosecute the case for "aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to commit aggravated second-degree battery" against Mychal Bell.

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: Jena 6 Day - 9/22/2007 8:23:21 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		The six charged, were overcharged. They should have been charged with assault and battery, and lowest possible plea should have been aggravated battery. The noose thing is not an excuse, and should be handled as a seperate case. I believe there was bias in this case, but it should not give the six a get out of jail free card. The six on one should be handled as a hate crime as well though, since it was racially motivated.

The protest should be to support that the law is upheld and applied without bias. Instead it is to try and let these kids off without any consequence. That is just as wrong.

If minorities continue to play the victim card, they will be treated and seen as victims.

Equal application of the law.

Orion

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 9/22/2007 8:59:35 PM   
SugarMyChurro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
If minorities continue to play the victim card, they will be treated and seen as victims.


I know, why won't the darkies just shut the fuck up, eh? They should know their place.

They're just asking for maltreatment, aren't they?

Justice should be colorblind - especially unequal justice.


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Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Jena 6 Day - 9/22/2007 9:15:54 PM   
Owner59


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Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Malcolm X was a momentary digression in this conversation. I was just drawing some parallels.

When a group of black kids assert themselves in anything remotely resembling the same manner that white kids might (as if they were a law to themselves), it's somehow newsworthy. No one wants to prosecute the white kids for beating on the black kids during the party fight, right? Let's not prosecute the shotgun kid, let's prosecute the kid that stopped him.

It's too stupid...!

And this is exactly how institutionalized racism works. The law is cudgel with which to beat the man of color.

Now that some proper KKK white kids are involved and with nooses, now the cops in Jena are doing something - but these white kids they are going after are out of towners too. Apparently, it matters...


I wasn`t refering to you SugarMyChurro,but rather Seeksfemslave`s post.
Post #: 143

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 9/23/2007 5:47:49 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Colorblind, as the way you always wish to color things. If you wanted to know more about my comment, those interested in dialogue usually ask. You can ass u me if you wish though.

Orion


quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
If minorities continue to play the victim card, they will be treated and seen as victims.


I know, why won't the darkies just shut the fuck up, eh? They should know their place.

They're just asking for maltreatment, aren't they?

Justice should be colorblind - especially unequal justice.




_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Jena 6 Day - 9/23/2007 6:42:01 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		The point is: when racial inequality exists it must be confronted and corrected. It is not playing the "victim card" as you say. That characterization is intended to shame people into silence when they have *EVERY RIGHT* to demand perfect equality under the law.

I'm going to borrow from radical queer culture and remind everyone that "silence = death." Minorities cannot simply be silent, or protest quietly, about standing threats to their very lives. Their collective voices must be heard in order to right the wrongs society sometimes allows in its ignorance.

Why?

-----

"FBI Reviewing Anti-Jena 6 Web Page"
By BECKY BOHRER – 13 hours ago

NEW ORLEANS (AP) — The FBI is reviewing a white supremacist Web site that purports to list the addresses of five of the six black teenagers accused of beating a white student in Jena and "essentially called for their lynching," an agency spokeswoman said Saturday.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g_B895UEtV38cUvZWav9zg08hh3Q

-----

"We will not be silent about the Jena 6"
By Marian Wright Edelman, NNPA Columnist, September 24, 2007

What's happening to the Jena Six is not unique. White sheriffs, police officials and prosecutors in small isolated towns, mostly in the South, believe they can mete out justice to Black people with the impunity of their forebears under America's pre-1960s system of racial apartheid. Away from the light of national scrutiny, they believe they can still trample on the civil rights of Black people at their whim.

http://www.louisianaweekly.com/weekly/news/articlegate.pl?20070924e

-----

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 9/23/2007 8:18:41 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		 The point is: when racial inequality exists it must be confronted and corrected. It is not playing the "victim card" as you say. That characterization is intended to shame people into silence when they have *EVERY RIGHT* to demand perfect equality under the law.

[/quote]

The biggest problem here (IMO),is un-equal justice.The Constitution guarantees equal protection under the law.That means no breaks,but also nothing harsher than what anybody else would get.

It`s obvious that things are way un-equal there.Why that is so,is another issue,and just as valid.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 9/23/2007 8:40:31 PM >

_____________________________

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 9/23/2007 10:11:09 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Absolutely correct! These were educated HS young men who knew exactly how many kicks to the head a person can withstand without incurring permanent brain damage or death and counted each blow to make sure they didn't exceed it. Indeed the fact that there is only ongoing vision problems speaks to their ability and restraint.



Thank you for that new lovely rant, Mercnbeth.

I was simply responding to this statement.  I apologize if you intended it to be sarcastic, and would recommend you nest it in [sarcasm] and [/sarcasm] tags so that people that actually do understand the physics of combat do not assume you are simply making an uneducated (and somewhat moronic) comment about the bio-physics of a blow to the head.

Sinergy

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RE: Jena 6 Day - 9/24/2007 7:37:07 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Absolutely correct! These were educated HS young men who knew exactly how many kicks to the head a person can withstand without incurring permanent brain damage or death and counted each blow to make sure they didn't exceed it. Indeed the fact that there is only ongoing vision problems speaks to their ability and restraint.



Thank you for that new lovely rant, Mercnbeth.

I was simply responding to this statement.  I apologize if you intended it to be sarcastic, and would recommend you nest it in [sarcasm] and [/sarcasm] tags so that people that actually do understand the physics of combat do not assume you are simply making an uneducated (and somewhat moronic) comment about the bio-physics of a blow to the head.Sinergy


No Thanks - But it's much more fun and amusing to see the replies and laugh at the replies which make the point I was seeking. In this case, not only the fact that there was no consideration of how many blows to a conscience or unconscious person does it take before death or permanent damage; but that it only takes one blow to kill. How better to generate "proof" than to have experts like yourself make it for me.

Besides its better to show people's agenda by agreeing with their arguments and showing how they contradict themselves. You know, for instance the ones that say that "attempted murder" was not a correct charge, yet argue that one blow CAN kill - very amusing!

I can't help it if some can't understand the difference between and initial charge and a sentence given after a trail when all the fact come out. Why debate with ignorance when its so much easier to just use silly and moronic examples of their own point to get to the conclusion that I wanted to make in the first place; one blow can kill and "can kill" equates to "attempted murder". Pretty much ends the question about whether the charge was correctly applied or not. If that defines a "rant" to you - I understand.

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