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What if I am insane? - 9/20/2007 4:16:23 PM

xoxi

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This is something I've thought about for years and years. The 'no limits' thread brought it once again to the forefront of my mind.

I like being 'abused.' I like being slapped, and choked, and used sexually for my man's pleasure. I like being told that I'm nothing without him, and that I exist to please him. I do have limits, yes, but I genuinely enjoy activities that are considered abusive by the world as a whole.

I'm sure most of you are reading this and thinking, so what? That's just your kink. Your kink is fine, my kink is fine, our kinks are all fine. I wish I could believe that just as badly as I wish I could believe Christ died for my sins and I will go to a place called heaven when I die - I really really do.

But I can't. I wonder, why do I have this 'kink' and is it truly sane? I'm going to ignore the actions themselves because they take two consenting people, and focus only on my thoughts. Is thinking "I like to feel violated, but that's okay because it's my kink" any different than saying "I like to fantasize about children, but that's okay because it's my kink"? And if people are hesitant to use the law as a judgement (because BDSM is considered illegal by the law, and insane by mental health standards) then what IS the paradigm of judgement?

I'm not asking if my kink is "okay" because that's subjective. I'm genuinely wondering, does this kink make me insane? Is it a product of mental illness on my part, in the same way that mental illness causes people to cut themselves, bash their head against walls, or take their own lives? Is the sexual turn on actually a symptom of a deeper problem rather than the root of the kink itself?

And I'm wondering, does anyone else have these thoughts? I'm not talking about a little spanky spanky that leads to orgasm for both of you, I'm talking about a deeper level of D/s dynamic where there is a craving to be abused. Not for an orgasm, not for endorphins, but enjoying the fact that someone will slap you and make you cry. Enjoying the feeling of powerlessness, helplessness, and actively searching out a 'victim' role.

I'm not looking for pat answers of "it's okay if you enjoy it" or "its just a kink, don't judge yourself" - this question has been in my head for years and it's not going to heal with a mental bandaid. If anyone wants to explore this idea with me further, I will be very grateful.

Post #: 1

RE: What if I am insane? - 9/20/2007 4:21:49 PM

breatheasone

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If you are...I'm right behind ya.....

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/20/2007 4:27:28 PM

MadRabbit

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Well, the good news is there is that old saying of "If you were insane, you wont know you were insane".

Personally, I lust to inflict emotional, psychological, and physical pain and desire to Own another human being. Tears fuel me with powerful energy and the thought of cutting someone and watching them whither makes me hot. I like to beat, punish, flog, whip, hurt, pull hair, make the girls cry, degrade, humilate, and most of all control. Owning someone and using them for my pleasure tends to make me even hotter.

By all social norms, I am demented.

However, I do know two things.

1. I am a good and ethical person
2. I cant explain or change these things about me.

So....I'm okay with all that.

"The great epochs of our lives come when we gain the courage to rechristen our evil as what is best in us"
- Friedrich Nietzsche

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 9/20/2007 4:28:51 PM >

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/20/2007 4:31:53 PM

chellekitty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Personally, I lust to inflict emotional, psychological, and physical pain and desire to Own another human being. Tears fuel me with powerful energy and the thought of cutting someone and watching them whither makes me hot. I like to beat, punish, flog, whip, hurt, pull hair, make the girls cry, degrade, humilate, and most of all control. Owning someone and using them for my pleasure tends to make me even hotter.

that sounds really hot....i am horny now...wait...was i ever not horny? hmmm....

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/20/2007 4:36:15 PM

SirCache

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You know... I personally adore humiliation. Love it. Give me the opportunity and I run nuts with it, pushing until I find where the limits really are (and believe me, I love to push). I don't think it's a sign of anything other than your personal lusts. I don't engage in it with everyone, mostly because not everyone shares in my personal tastes. But those who do? Man, what a rush.

Insanity is when you seek it out in everyone, regardless of the consequences, and regardless of what everyone else wants--at the expense of everything else you hold dear.

(in reply to xoxi)

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/20/2007 4:39:54 PM

UR2Badored

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According to the definition of paraphilia (actual mental diagnosis), some might believe BDSM activities are symptoms of an illness .

However, I dont think an illness is an actually illness, if the cure is social acceptance. For example: Hysteria was a common diagnosis for women at the end of the 19th Century. Once it was not socially accepted as a diagnosis, viola! disease cured. The internet may be how the BDSM community either becomes socially accepted or has us all locked up within 10 years.

Edited to add more sites so we can all be on our road to recovery:
Forensic Psychiatry
ATHealth.com
Self-Injurious Behavior
MedicineNET.com
Time Magazine: Bondage Unbound

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 9/20/2007 5:18:29 PM >

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/20/2007 4:42:55 PM

apiercedkitty

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If you are, you're surely in a huge ship - cuz there's a LOT of people in that same boat...

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/20/2007 4:46:37 PM

xoxi

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UR2BA - I don't think the cure is simply social acceptance. I think that my desires would be considered counterproductive and not in my best interest. I can't justify saying I want to be raped by my boyfriend by saying it turns me on, because it's not like the act itself feels good. It turns me on mentally to know he can do that...just like it excites cutters mentally to know they are disfiguring themselves.

SirCache - I can honestly say I've turned down plenty of healthy relationships simply because the other person wouldn't be able to dominate me in the way I enjoy. It's something I need sexually and while I don't seek it in everyone, it's also something I can't be happy without. What does that say about my mental state?

Rabbit - I agree that these things aren't a *problem* as long as you're a good and ethical person, but I'm worried more about the sanity of the thoughts than the actions themselves. An insane person might be good and ethical - it makes them no less insane.

If I am insane I wonder if I should just 'come to terms' with my insanity and make concessions for it, or if I should try to be 'cured' or 'healed' - if that would even work.

I read the link on paraphilias and agree that by mental health standards I am insane. I truly wonder if I should even question that - or if I should simply accept my insanity and try to manage it.

Edited to add - What makes my desires any different than cutting, or anorexia? I'm harming myself physically and am emotionally distressed when unable to live out my desires. Why do I get a free pass just because it's a sex thing?

< Message edited by xoxi -- 9/20/2007 4:48:27 PM >

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/20/2007 4:47:50 PM

litleone8620

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I went through a phase of 'Am I insane to like X, Y, Z done to me?' I've decided overall to just go with the flow, and enjoy what I enjoy doing.

If that makes me insane by mental health standards, then so be it. I'm really ok with that. I'm not going to stop being a masochist, and I'm not going to stop wanting someone to own/control/beat/humiliate/degrade me just beacuse it isn't 'accepted' by the standards of people I've never met.

I do what I do because I enjoy it. I don't question it. And I live my life to please one person. Myself. Well, for now anyway.

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/20/2007 4:49:44 PM

Phoenix2raven

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Yes there was a period in my life were I got caught up in the psycho babble that states what we are is a mental disorder. The question is does it hurt me or anyone else. That is the question that made it possible for me to make the decision to embrace what I am. Forget the sickologysts unless you truly believe what you are hurts you as a person. That's what I believe in simple terms. Hope that helps.
~Phoenix~

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/20/2007 4:53:56 PM

AquaticSub

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~Fast Reply~

Well... I don't know if we are actually insane or not. What I do know is that sometimes it is kinder to let a person be insane than to actually treat them. In a pysch textbook, I read a case where a woman was devoted to her husband all her life. She did everything for him and helped with his career all she could, with the understanding that once they made it big they would have kids. Well, he did make it big but he didn't want to have kids then. By the time he wanted to, she couldn't anymore. As she got older, she had to be committed. Every day she believed herself to be with child and every day she would give birth to a new baby, which she would proudly talk about to the nurses and doctors.

Could they have "treated" her? Probably but it would have been cruel to take her out of a world where she was so happy and fulfilled so they made the choice to leave her there.

I realize that what we do is different yet we find contentment in it. It makes us happy and it turns us on. As long as we stick to the rules about consent we aren't hurting anyone else and we've seen that kinky couples can raise perfectly healthy children. So, the question for me is: If we are sick, do we even need treatment?

Maybe this was all just rambling but I hope it helps in some small way.
Good thoughts to you,
Aqua

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/20/2007 4:57:57 PM

SirCache

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Exactly! For myself and my partner it is a source of strength--something we both take positively with us afterwards.

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Post #: 12

RE: What if I am insane? - 9/20/2007 4:58:42 PM

xoxi

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I understand where you all are coming from. But just to give you a bit of background information...

I have been anorexic. When I was younger, I cut myself. I was also addicted to drugs in the past. I have put all three of those behaviors behind me, and feel so much freer now. I can't imagine going back to the state I was in emotionally at those times.

But when I was in the midst of those behaviors, I didn't see them as damaging. I saw anorexia as a way to take control of my own body, same with cutting. I used drugs as a means of mental escapism - similar to the feeling one gets when bound immobile and forced to have an orgasm.

Perhaps I'm wrong for comparing these things, but I can't say that for sure. On the surface they seem so similar. I've also had these sort of desires (D/s desires) for decades. Literally. I don't want to get any more in detail due to the TOS but it's something inherent in my mind rather than a learned behavior. That also makes me think it could be stemming from a mental problem - the thoughts have been there forever.

When I think of a life without D/s I can't imagine how I would be happy. But my younger self thought I would do drugs til the day I die - what fun would life be without them?

I really don't know what to think.

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/20/2007 5:00:01 PM

LATEXBABY64

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I think insanity is anything that would cause you to do harm to yourself or others in a bad way

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/20/2007 5:03:10 PM

Pyrrsefanie

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I remember being terrified to tell my therapist in high school what I was into. When I finally got the courage to 'fess up, he blinked a couple of times and said "That's it?" His only concern was that I wasn't actually being hurt or exploited in ways that I didn't like. According to him BDSM was "common as dirt." (Direct quote there, I've never forgotten it) And this man was far from a hack, he helped me get through my high school years in ways that I don't think anyone else would have been able to.

On the other side of the spectrum, a friend of mine who was majoring in psychology and also happened to be a femdomme called me in a rage one day because her psych professor was talking about BDSM being a manifestation of mental illness. So I guess even the professionals can't even make up their mind.

If you ask me, as long as you can make the distinction between D/s and real abuse, you've got nothing to worry about, and if you're crazy, then I think a lot of people out there need to be locked up. It's when your Master breaks your face on a regular basis and threatens to kill you and you're still starry-eyed and singing "Oh, I love him!" that there's an issue.

Edit: I noticed one of your posts above where you talked about not realizing you had a problem in the midst of drug abuse and eating disorders... but to me, it sounds like you're in a state of mind where if this DID stem from a mental illness, you'd be clear-headed enough to shy away from it. Which means you're not crazy.

< Message edited by Pyrrsefanie -- 9/20/2007 5:04:43 PM >

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/20/2007 5:06:54 PM

Mercnbeth

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You may be crazy - At my income level I qualify as "eccentric".

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/20/2007 5:07:45 PM

adoracat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

UR2BA - I don't think the cure is simply social acceptance. I think that my desires would be considered counterproductive and not in my best interest. I can't justify saying I want to be raped by my boyfriend by saying it turns me on, because it's not like the act itself feels good. It turns me on mentally to know he can do that...just like it excites cutters mentally to know they are disfiguring themselves.

Edited to add - What makes my desires any different than cutting, or anorexia? I'm harming myself physically and am emotionally distressed when unable to live out my desires. Why do I get a free pass just because it's a sex thing?

i cut. it does NOT excite me mentally, i am not happy with it, nor with what i was doing in addition to that. i've been ordered to stop doin those those things, and i have, with a few slips.

my cutting/self injury goes to trying to ease mental/emotional pain from past situations. so while some cutters may do it for the thrill...not all do.

sorry for the hijack, its just something that got at me.

kitten, sighing.

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/20/2007 5:10:41 PM

xoxi

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I apologize, I was speaking of my own experience with that problem. I didn't mean to imply all cutters have the same motivation any more than I'm trying to imply everyone into D/s has the same motivations.

I truly wish you well <3

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/20/2007 5:15:58 PM

adoracat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

I apologize, I was speaking of my own experience with that problem. I didn't mean to imply all cutters have the same motivation any more than I'm trying to imply everyone into D/s has the same motivations.

I truly wish you well <3

*hugs* thank you for understanding...i wasnt putting light on your issues, just saying that not everyone has the same reactions.

the BDSM that Sir and i indulge in helps me. the pain gives me relief from the emotional pain, and it gives aid in the physical pain release too.

so that's what i get from it...your milage may vary. *smiles*

kitten

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/20/2007 5:17:12 PM

catize

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My own personal definition of sanity is the fact that I know what is real and what is fantasy ( in my own life, of course)!
I’m crazy enough to let my mind dream wild and impossible things but I’m grounded enough to know where my physical limits are.

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