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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/21/2007 4:38:22 AM   
chey


Posts: 121
Joined: 7/1/2005
Status: offline 		..
quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

I understand where you all are coming from.  But just to give you a bit of background information...

I have been anorexic.  When I was younger, I cut myself.  I was also addicted to drugs in the past.  I have put all three of those behaviors behind me, and feel so much freer now.  I can't imagine going back to the state I was in emotionally at those times.

But when I was in the midst of those behaviors, I didn't see them as damaging.  I saw anorexia as a way to take control of my own body, same with cutting.  I used drugs as a means of mental escapism - similar to the feeling one gets when bound immobile and forced to have an orgasm.

Perhaps I'm wrong for comparing these things, but I can't say that for sure.  On the surface they seem so similar.  I've also had these sort of desires (D/s desires) for decades.  Literally.  I don't want to get any more in detail due to the TOS but it's something inherent in my mind rather than a learned behavior.  That also makes me think it could be stemming from a mental problem - the thoughts have been there forever.

When I think of a life without D/s I can't imagine how I would be happy.  But my younger self thought I would do drugs til the day I die - what fun would life be without them?

I really don't know what to think.



xoxi,
I may be totally off base here because I was not able to read every single response. However, it seems to me that you did something about the things in your life that you felt were bad for you. For example the anorexia, it was something you wanted to "recover from", not something you wanted to keep as a part of you. I understand that while engaging in them you did not see them as bad but apparently something inside of you no longer wanted these things as part of your life. You replaced them with activities that for you were more healthy, both physically and mentally. No one but you can say that 10 years from now you will still find peace and happiness in your present activities. If you do not, then move on. We all change over time. Find what does make you happy. There was risk in the anorexia, drugs and cutting. There is risk in being choked and many of the other various things we do. Vanilla or otherwise there will always be people looking in and place some sort of judgement.

So maybe you shouldn't compare the two scenarios you presented, instead ask yourself: Were you happy, truly happy not just buzzed and oblivious, during the time of your life when you were cutting, doing drugs and had anorexia? And then ask yourself if you are happy now, truly happy in the role you have in your present D/s situation. I personally think you are fine, and the fact that you are thinking about it is good. But I would not let those fears take over!

(in reply to xoxi)
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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/21/2007 4:49:39 AM   
Phoenixandnika


Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
Status: offline
I personally think that sanity is over rated --for me as long as I can tell the difference in what is right and wrong, what is real and what is fantasy, and what is healthy and hurtful to me. I am as "sane" as I need to be. Plus being veiwed as crazy by my teen-age daughter is fun!
 
Edited to add: I also think, heck know from personal experience that making bad choices isn't about being sane or insaint it is about growing and learning both about ourself and the world in general.
 
Nika
 


< Message edited by Phoenixandnika -- 9/21/2007 4:51:08 AM >

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/21/2007 5:22:07 AM   
SunNMoon


Posts: 1058
Joined: 3/18/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

SunNMoon - very interesting questions...if I didn't have this desire I don't know if I would be any happier, but I think relationships would be *easier* if I didn't require it.  I don't actually believe I'm nothing without a guy, and that makes it even more confusing why I would want someone to tell me that.

Anyway my mind is totally processing this stuff right now...thank you all for the replies...and for taking the question seriously.  I obviously can't learn to 'accept' myself until I'm convinced that what I'm accepting is in fact something I should accept, you know?



Hi Xoxi,
 
Don’t judge the D/s aspect in relationships; just take a look at your non-D/s friends. And we all have our odd requirements for relationships. Look at the character of the person outside of the relationship, such as the saying look at how he treats the wait staff. If he is always cruel to everyone then you might want to reconsider but if he’s a nice guy and treats you well at times (and he knows that there is a difference between what you want and abuse). To some up my ramblings, is it over all a healthy relationship?
 
As to why you like it…it could be as simple as it’s a way you here “sweetie” or “honey.” Well have are weird things, and I have them too.
 

(in reply to xoxi)
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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/21/2007 5:49:00 AM   
johnxinxscruz


Posts: 53
Joined: 3/25/2006
Status: offline 		"What if I am insane?"

"Only the insane have the strength to prosper. Only those who prosper judge what is sane."

Stop being afraid of the answer to whether or not you're crazy. You are.

So am I. Everyone here is. Everyone not here is. This concept of what we call normalcy is a hobgoblin that tortures us in our self-doubts and introspection, just as sure as the elusive and unrealistic barbi figure is a hobgoblin that tortures women and their self image.

Let go of the delusional need for sanity. Just "let go". Instead, focus on figuring out who you are, within yourself, and then be who you are. If being treated like crap in a relationship is what makes you feel fulfilled, and being with a vanilla boy does not, then ... don't feel guilty about avoiding the relationships with the vanilla boys. Accept it, and move on.

Accept that you are crazy. Then you don't have to worry about it anymore, and you can move on to the next issue in life.

(in reply to SunNMoon)
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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/21/2007 5:55:10 AM   
GoldStallion


Posts: 68
Joined: 8/28/2007
Status: offline 		Everyone is imbalanced. Physically. Mentally. Spiritually. It is what gives us our weaknesses.

It also what gives us our strengths.

Striving for balance enables growth. All we can do is be the best we can be at being ourselves. You will never solve who you are, ultimately we die of who we are anyway. What matters is the journey in between: life.

If you are not hurting another human being (by which I mean stopping them have that which they need to grow and develop) then whether or not your are insane is irrelevant, its part of your path, you are on it, listen to YOU and keep on walking. You will get further along, but you will never get there. So enjoy the scenery and ignore the so called professionals who claim to have a monopoly on whats healthy by studying only diseases (oh yeah and not actually getting anyone better). Who made them god?

The key to mental health is honesty, therefore....what you need to do, we all need to do: face yourself. No one likes doing that, and not many people bother doing it. But its the door to the greatest treasures of living.

Out of that comes self awareness and that enables choices to create balance and that gives us health ( a wide context definition meaning happiness, not just not being in hospital)

Probably.



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(in reply to SunNMoon)
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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/21/2007 5:55:46 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		If you are insane, then it shouldn't be a question of whether or not you can reach the stars, you should just reach for them as a child would.

Dr. Frankenstein

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/21/2007 5:57:01 AM   
sophia37


Posts: 1433
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline 		Blind Desent gave me two very important lines to think about for my own life, "do my actions improve or degrade my partner's life. So conversely; does your partner promote your insanity; or do they promote your longevity? " I really think I should print that out and hang it on my wall for when I need to pause and think things over. Thank you Blind Desent. 

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/21/2007 6:06:01 AM   
GoldStallion


Posts: 68
Joined: 8/28/2007
Status: offline 		You see, you arent that mad - A toaster has just answered you!!

One sure question to settle this is this one: Did you drink the bottle marked "Drink me?".

There you go. Obvious.

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/21/2007 6:35:39 AM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline 		Figure these links may be worth reading as there is a push from many pyschologists/pyschiatrists  to not label as a mental health issue so may provide  you with a different outlook

http://www.revisef65.org/violence.html

http://members.aol.com/NOWSM/Psychiatrists.html/#Psychiatrists

http://www.revisef65.org/psychopathology.html

http://www.revisef65.org/hayden2.html

http://www.bdsmcircle.net/dslifestyle/thepleasureofpain.htm

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/21/2007 7:36:53 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		FR

i haven't read all the replies but first off insanity isn't a mental health definition it's basically a legal definition.  They don't call people insane in the mental health field.  The DSM lists paraphilias as a problem only if they intefere with your life to the point they cause you distress or you cannot function because of them.  Otherwise stop worrying and enjoy

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/21/2007 7:51:13 AM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		i used to spend a lot of time, too much time, questioning myself.  Why am i this way?  What's wrong with me?  Why can't i just be 'normal' "like everybody else"?  All of the self-doubt questions ran through my head.
 All i ever got from it was a headache and a wish that i could have that wasted time back to do something positive and constructive and enjoyable, instead of beating myself down with a thousand "why" questions.  Asking why isn't a bad thing but, it can become a viscous cycle, like when a 3-year old asks, "why is the sky blue?", "why did it rain on my birthday?", "why can't i fly like a bird?", and on and on.  No matter what answer you give, there's another "why" question.  Sure, there is some physics and science that can help to answer the questions but, in the end, it all boils down to, "because that's the way things are."  The same holds true for questions about "why i am this or that", because that's just the way i am.  In the end, i found it a lot more productive and positive to simply accept me for who i am and to love myself the way i am and make the most of my unique style and attributes and passions, rather than continually question myself. Instead of whether you are 'insane' or not, i'm wondering what it is that's causing you to question your sanity.  From what i have read from your posts, you seem to be someone who is not out-of-touch with reality, unless it's your own reality that you are feeling unsure about.  Or, is questioning your sanity just something that you do from time to time, in order to check in on your inner being and make sure that you haven't lost her, somewhere along the way?  That's not a bad thing to do, so long as you keep it some perspective and not allow your self-doubting to consume your thoughts and make you feel insane. Of course, there are people who would consider me to be "out of my mind" for wanting, needing, asking for, and accepting the loss of my self-autonomy, in favor of being under the complete control of another.  In fact, more people would probably feel more comfortable about my enjoyment of BDSM, than they would about my decision to give up my right to make my own decisions and to hand that right over to another and choose to live my life according to His rules and His decisions.  i think BDSM has crept into mainstream media and people have become more tolerant of the idea of pain for pleasure activities.  But, the thought of voluntarily becoming a slave, for most people, is completely foreign and unthinkable. Pretty much everything in this life carries some risk with it.  The important thing is to understand what the potential risk involved is and decide if the potential benefit is, at least, equal to or greater than the risk, for you.  Only you can answer that question for yourself.  What's crazier, living a 'normal', 'safe' life and being unfulfilled and denying yourself the chance to discover all of your potential or, living out your desires and going places, within yourself, and with another, that you might not have ever known or even imagined was possible? Believing in yourself, and accepting yourself will take you farther than questioning yourself and doubting yourself, or so i believe.

“Insanity is doing the same thing in the same way & expecting a different outcome.”

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

(in reply to xoxi)
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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/21/2007 8:32:12 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		Personally, I like being insane.  Better meds and better toys! 

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/21/2007 8:50:27 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		i want a leather straight jacket....that would be lots of fun.....

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One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/21/2007 9:03:00 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		xoxi,

As someone who lived through sexual abuse as a child and worked really hard to overcome the affects that that abuse had in my life, when my interest in BDSM started i questioned for a long time if my interest in BDSM was caused by the sexual abuse and was one more thing that i needed to heal from. So while i didn't use the words "am i crazy" i did wonder if my interest and the appeal that it had for me was a healthy thing in my life. Which i am assuming is at the heart of what you are also asking.

i know that i tried for many years, primarily for the above mentioned reason, but also for some others, to rid myself of these desires or to not give in to these desires. However i eventually came to the place of acceptance of who and what i am in regards to BDSM. i took an inventory as to whether my activities left me feeling better or worse about myself and i used that as a litmus test as to whether i should continue. As i found for myself that engaging in life as a submissive, as who i am, made me feel more free and better about myself, i regarded my desires as healthy for me.

i don't know if any of that helps you with the answers that you seek, but i hope that it does.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to xoxi)
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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/21/2007 9:13:06 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		i was molested as a very small child by someone who was trusted to take care of me, i watched my father beat my mother up, my father never took care of me and blamed me and my mom for everything that went wrong, my mother beat me with everything in site, because by the time i got to 4 years old, i had learned to leave my body and i didn't feel it, fast forward through taunting for being developed at 8 years old, having a period at 9, and being basically physically adult by the time i was 13.... to i was raped right before my 22nd birthday, and by the time my 23 birthday rolled around it had happend 3 more times...
i have spent the past year trying to figure out if one caused the other - i was abused because i am submissive or i am submissive because i was abused...i can't difinitively decide....either way...shit happens...i can do this healthy or i can be stuck in the same victim role i have always been in...insanity....doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results...i may not get perfect results with each tweak i do...but as long as i keep tweaking my patterns, and learning and not moving backwarks, always forwards...i will go some where...and if i ever stop learning, please just shoot me then...because i will have reached the ultimate goal of being perfect and having no more to learn i can finally rest....lol....i plan on learning for a long, long time...so ya'll are stuck with, imperfect, fallible me....deal...


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/21/2007 9:41:18 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi


But I can't.  I wonder, why do I have this 'kink' and is it truly sane? 

*non professional answer here*
IMPO you are certainly not insane because you have insight and also control over your kink....when and where you play it out.
If you lost it, splintered, fragmented memory and had no insight into your abuse, then it's questionable whether you could be held to have sanity and consensuakity. No hon, you just like a drop of the rough stuff....xxx

Prinnie xx

(in reply to xoxi)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: What if I am insane? - 9/21/2007 9:42:06 AM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		Because of the child abuse I went through in my youth and adolescence I developed something called Dis associative personality disorder. I was treated for this in my late twenties when it was discovered. I was in therapy for a few years and had a few hospitalizations. It helped "merge" me and my life improved a great deal. Fast forward to me when i hit 40, discovered this lifestyle and that I "belong" here in it. I can't really say with any certainty that my past IS the reason this lifestyle appeals to me. I just know I like what and who I am...and how I am living my life over all....If I'm insane...groovy....I can dig it.

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Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/21/2007 2:06:38 PM   
submittous


Posts: 345
Joined: 6/12/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin


May I suggest consulting with friends and family first?

I have a healthy disrespect for the mental health sciences.

But I have three good friends I've known for over 25 years.

All of them are aware of my lifestyle, none of them share in it.

They're all working class, down-to-earth, relationship-oriented people. Good people.

Normal relationships with normal people who know of my life and lifestyle reassure me I've not left planet earth.



We'd agree that many people out there have no need for professional therapists, they have good support systems in place and get their needs met that way. However there apparently are a lot more people than you realize who don't have family or friends who are supportive, rational, insightful and able to actually be helpful in situations like this. We made the assumption that the OP did not have such a support system available to her or she would not have needed to post the questions here.

Obviously you have had a bad experience with the mental health system at some time., we are sorry to hear that. We do know that there are good, supportive kink friendly and kink knowledgable people out there in the mental health community, we also know that they can be hard to find and that is why we suggested going to local groups for a professional refferal and/or groups like the NCSF.

We are glad you are still here on earth and generally enjoy your posts... please stay  

thanks for the comment

Bill and Iris

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/21/2007 3:14:47 PM   
BlindDescent


Posts: 113
Joined: 9/26/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you Sophia. It's one thing to become mired in the whys...I prefer to focus on untangling. I guess another view here might be; am I insane,  or am I the recipient of another's insanity. That famous quote of expecting another result can flow to Dom or sub...especially a capricious one. Never quite being able to please/be pleased...despite best effort...is it insane to be forever running on that hamster wheel of not quite good enough? 

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RE: What if I am insane? - 9/22/2007 12:18:14 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

This is something I've thought about for years and years.


Good sign, IMO.

quote:


I like being slapped, and choked, and used sexually for my man's pleasure.


So far, nothing out of the ordinary.

quote:


I like being told that I'm nothing without him, and that I exist to please him.


The first part would give pause if it were the other party who initiated; not everyone responds well to it. Apart from that, still nothing really out of the ordinary.

quote:


I do have limits, yes, but I genuinely enjoy activities that are considered abusive by the world as a whole.


As do we all. Perhaps the world is using an irrelevant word to describe an incorrect assumption about cause and effect in certain interpersonal relationships, where one might actually say that a better word would describe many accepted relationships?

Because we all know football, ice hockey and boxing aren't abusive. They just injure and/or kill.

quote:


I'm sure most of you are reading this and thinking, so what?


Not at all. My thoughts might be a bit non-PC be rendered as "good girl, you're getting there."

quote:


But I can't.


That speaks to integrity, and is to your credit.

quote:


I wonder, why do I have this 'kink' and is it truly sane?


As for the former, who knows?
As for the latter, what is?

A better question might be: is it healthy? I'd speculate "yes."
An even better one might be: does it fullfil you? I can't answer that; does it?

quote:


I'm going to ignore the actions themselves because they take two consenting people, and focus only on my thoughts.


Thoughtcrime aside, analyzing the ethics of the act is equally useful, I think.

quote:


Is thinking "I like to feel violated, but that's okay because it's my kink" any different than saying "I like to fantasize about children, but that's okay because it's my kink"?


Not really.

quote:


And if people are hesitant to use the law as a judgement (because BDSM is considered illegal by the law, and insane by mental health standards) then what IS the paradigm of judgement?


Entirely arbitrary.

You pick some ethic, or accept one that is handed to you, then work with that. Ethics are either feedback-driven, conformity-driven, axiomatic doctrine, axiomatic pragmatism, axiomatic abstract, or inspired. The latter is considered insane by the majority of the population, and by most mental health professionals. The first of these is considered insane, immature, or sociopathic, by the same people. The rest are axiomatic, i.e. arbitrary.

quote:


I'm not asking if my kink is "okay" because that's subjective.


That depends on the paradigm; moral absolutists do not allow for meta-subjectivism, deontic moralities and the bulk of western moralities do not allow for regular subjectivism, and most other cultures have very limited room for subjectivism, just to take a few examples.

quote:


I'm genuinely wondering, does this kink make me insane?


Defining "insane" would help.

In the general sense, all mental health pathologies have a common criterion for diagnosis that does not depend on your physical state: is it causing significant impairment in one or more areas of life functioning? Further, most have an exemption that states that it's really all culturally relative, i.e. if it's common or accepted in your culture (either the one you came from, or the one you live in, or that of a group you're part of), it is defined as "not insane".

quote:


Is it a product of mental illness on my part, in the same way that mental illness causes people to cut themselves, bash their head against walls, or take their own lives?


Again, definitions will vary a lot. In any meaningful sense, it's both related and unrelated. It's related in that it affects your drives, impulses and motives, but it's unrelated in that it derives from something else, adds to your life, and isn't generally harmful. Do we need for everyone to be wired the same way? The real question is: are you in rational control of your actions. And that's usually one of the questions asked by one who worries about consent.

quote:


Is the sexual turn on actually a symptom of a deeper problem rather than the root of the kink itself?


Doubtful. If it is, it will be touching other things, as well.
Else, the root, stem and leaves are better viewed as a single tree that stands alone.

quote:


And I'm wondering, does anyone else have these thoughts?


Worked through them and arrived at a conclusion.

quote:


I'm not talking about a little spanky spanky that leads to orgasm for both of you, I'm talking about a deeper level of D/s dynamic where there is a craving to be abused.


That's rather trivial, and can be reconciled, rather than processed and integrated.
If you were content with that, though, you'd prolly not still be thinking about it.

quote:


Not for an orgasm, not for endorphins, but enjoying the fact that someone will slap you and make you cry.  Enjoying the feeling of powerlessness, helplessness, and actively searching out a 'victim' role.


"There are no victims here." - AquaticSub (IIRC)

Only you can answer whether it makes you immoral (a question of picking an ethic that allows it, or picking one that condemns it and thus causes mental health issues through cognitive dissonance) and whether it makes you insane (a question of defining that term and seeing if you fit the definition). Sounds like you're about to individuate, but haven't yet examined the fog that surrounds these vague terms that don't really mean anything.

quote:


I'm not looking for pat answers of "it's okay if you enjoy it" or "its just a kink, don't judge yourself" - this question has been in my head for years and it's not going to heal with a mental bandaid.


Indeed it will not.

quote:


If anyone wants to explore this idea with me further, I will be very grateful.


You know where to find me if you want an interactive POV.
Otherwise, I'll be checking in the thread as well for less interactive heresy.

That said, kudos for raising the question(s), and for examining these things rather than leaving it at "ah, but it's okay, 'cause I like it and nobody objects". It'll be enlightening for you either way, regardless of what input you go by, and hopefully for others, too.

Oh, and, it's all hot. Enjoy it. Dang, we weren't supposed to say that.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to xoxi)
Profile   Post #: 80
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