AAkasha
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Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pollux
quote:
ORIGINAL: AAkasha
I think the examples you give of submissive men that would not be wise to bring up their kinks to their loving, vanilla partners and have it work are men who are emotionally dysfunctional to begin with, and have issues far deeper than just their desire for kink. To say they should explore their dark, kinky fantasies with a pro perhaps, and have a normal relationship with a vanilla woman is not relevant, because they're probably not functional enough to have a relationship with a woman anyway.
The subs that are self aware, understand their kink, understand limits and have functional relationships are able to have loving relationship with the same woman they share their kink with, and are not better off seeking a pro on the side as your friend suggested.
Akasha
The problem with this view -- and it's fine as far as it goes -- is it divides the sub world into dysfunctional perverts and -- let's call 'em "mature", for lack of a better word -- submissive men. Maybe there's a better word. But they're subs operating at a pretty high level of emotional development and self actualization. What about all the guys in between those two extremes? Or guys who simply made a bad decision 20 years ago and are now living with the adult consequences?
There's a class of sub who's into stuff that most here seem to think crosses some kind of line. Not kink anymore, but symptomatic of some kind of pathology. I'm not sure how easy it is to define that line but it seems to be kind of an "I know it when I see it" kind of thing. You say, these guys can't maintain a relationship anyway, so the advice is N/A. I don't think MLV had that type of person in mind when she made her original reply, but ok, for the sake of argument, fine.
How about another class of sub that my friend might have had in mind? He's maybe not so self-aware, maybe doesn't understand his kink fully (who does, btw?)...but he *does* have a functional relationship. Maybe he's married, got a couple of kids, a mortgage, maybe achieved some success & status in his career and some standing in his community. Maybe he's married to a very nice vanilla lady. He also has an intense desire to experience __. Now, is __ kinky and dark? To the people here, maybe not so much. But to him it is, and to his wife it would be pretty black too. Now, maybe he's tried to introduce some femdom elements to the bedroom -- gently -- on a couple of occasions, but hasn't really gotten very far with that. Actually, he's gotten nowhere with it. Of course, he's attentive to her needs, and responsible, and faithful, and all of those things. He loves her. She loves him. They've created something together, and it's worth preserving. But just this *one* thing...nah, she's just not into that.
This guy's got a problem now, doesn't he?
Yes, but the "better" solution (or only solution) is certainly not what your friend recommended -- that is, to see a pro for his kinks and keep his happy vanilla life on the side. Not unless the vanilla wife knows and is very ok with it. All he is doing is compartmentalizing and cheating. Sure, he may get away with it -- he may get away with it for years. But what happens when she finds his kink drawer, or finds out he is seeing a pro? How does that make his life better?
If she is telling SINGLE men to consider dividing their life up like that I think she is doing them a disservice (we are talking about the functional man as you said, not the guy who is socially and emotionally damaged). They should be honest and up front with their female partners from the start. I don't condone hiding such a huge part of one's being -- their entire sexuality -- for the sake of having their cake and eating it too. It's not good for the sub because he's going to be living in the guilt, and it's not good for the relationship because it's based on a lie. How is it for the kids who are born into it? Not good either.
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It's great that the ladies here are so gloriously kinky and self-aware and self-possessed and thank GOD for each and every one of you because you are a redeeming and healing force in the world. Really, I believe that. Believe it to my core. But I wonder what kind of parallel universe you are living in where lovers everywhere are as accepting of kink as you are? Or where everyone knows when they are young and foolish and get into their relationships that if their partner won't do __ then big problems are going to develop? Or where as young people they possessed the necessary self-awareness to say to themselves, "Clearly I'm a self-identified submissive man, and therefore I must seek out a self-identified dominant woman, and that if I fall in love with and marry a vanilla woman I will be miserable."
When I was younger I had this idealized view of love -- it was this magical state of unconditional acceptance, complete and total support, openness, honesty, fidelity, tolerance, patience, kindness, and, of course, pornographic sex. I think real love is a lot messier than that. Loving relationships only work if there's compromise. And, they aren't perfect. Lovers aren't always truthful and open with each other. Lovers keep secrets from each other. Lovers sometimes hide their true selves from each other. Lovers aren't always completely faithful. Lovers say "ewww" and "ick" and "hell no, I won't do that I don't care how much you want it, and can you please remember to pick up little Billy at 3?". The breakdown of any of those perfected qualities doesn't mean (IMO) that love isn't still present, or that a relationship where the two people haven't been completely honest, or they have some inhibition about sharing some secret side of themselves somehow means they aren't really in love, or aren't in a "functional relationship".
There's nothing perfected in the world, least of all love. It's all a big compromise. There's nothing even remotely ideal about it.
You don't have a shot to begin with if you are not at least honest with yourself and your possible lifemate from the start, at least with as much information you have to start with. Of course there are compromises in relationships. I don't agree with you that lovers need to hide their true selves with their partners, but perhaps I have an idealized view of love. The first step though is being comfortable enough with yourself before being comfortable with someone else, and many subs aren't even past the first step. They'd rather hide it.
You are getting off on a tangent now from the original point -- and that is whether or not a *femdom* is better off exploring her kinks with one partner and having a loving vanilla relationship with someone else. You've been finding here that most kinky women, at least here, have no problem being in a relationship with a man who fills both roles.
Akasha
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