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America has more people in jail... - 9/24/2007 6:43:11 PM   
MsBearlee


Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline 		So, Ted Koppel's new show (to be aired Sunday, I think) says we have more people in jail than does any other country.

What do you think this says about us?

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This one, as well!
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RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/24/2007 6:49:35 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline 		I think it says that we spend way too much time and energy locking up every drug user in the country.  The prisons and jails are over-capacity with many non-violent and/or drug offenders.  It's ridiculous.  If there were other means set up that focused more on community corrections, this would be a non-issue.  But, as long as the majority of people continue to allow a nonsensical, bullshit "war on drugs," the numbers of these types of offenders filling up cells will continue to skyrocket.......luci 

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RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/24/2007 6:50:25 PM   
ChicagoSwitchMal


Posts: 417
Joined: 9/9/2007
Status: offline 		Makes sense. A war on drugs that locks non-violent offenders up. We don't bury our criminals in the sand. Top that off with a good old American MTV fueled sence of entitilement. Heck everyone deserves to live like a pop star and if you can't get it on your own, take it.

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RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/24/2007 6:52:58 PM   
greyarcher315


Posts: 99
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		I guess we could try something else, maybe choping off different body parts according to the crime? (at the least it will cut way back on repeat rapists.)

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RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/24/2007 6:58:17 PM   
ChicagoSwitchMal


Posts: 417
Joined: 9/9/2007
Status: offline 		The entitlement thing reminds me of probably my favorite movie quote of all time. From the Devils Advocate.

Eddie Barzoon.
Eddie Barzoon!
Ha! I nursed him through two divorces, a cocaine rehab, and a pregnant receptionist.
God's creature, right?
God's special creature?
Ha! And I've warned him, Kevin, I've warned him every step of the way.
Watching him bounce around like a fucking game, like a wind-up toy!
Like 250 pounds of self-serving greed on wheels!
The next thousand years is right around the corner, Kevin, and Eddie Barzoon--take a good look.
Because he's the poster child for the next millennium!
These people, it's no mystery where they come from.
You sharpen the human appetite to the point where it could split atoms with its desire, you build egos the size of cathedrals, fiberopticly connect the world to every-eager-impulse, grease even the dullest dreams with these dollar-green gold-played fantasies until every human becomes an aspiring emperor!
Becomes his own God!
Where can you go from there?
And as for scrambling from one deal to the next, who's got his eye on the planet?
As the air thickens, the water sours, even the bees honey takes on the metallic taste of radioactivity--and it just keeps coming!
And it just keeps coming!
Faster and faster!
There's no chance to think, to prepare, it's `buy futures, sell futures' when there is no future!!
We've got a runaway train, boy!!
We've got a billion Eddie Barzoons all jogging into the future.
Every one of them ready to fist-fuck God's ex-planet, lick their fingers clean as they reach out with their pristine cybernetic keyboards to total up their billable hours!!
And then it hits home!
It's a little late in the game to buy out now!!
Your belly's too full, your dick is sore, your eyes are bloodshot, and you're screaming for someone to help!!
But guess what?
There's no one there!!
You're all alone, Eddie!!
You're God's special little creature!!

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RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/24/2007 7:00:26 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		Not surprised... We love to load up our jails with drug users and prostitutes.

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RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/24/2007 7:10:13 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChicagoSwitchMal

Makes sense. A war on drugs that locks non-violent offenders up. We don't bury our criminals in the sand. Top that off with a good old American MTV fueled sence of entitilement. Heck everyone deserves to live like a pop star and if you can't get it on your own, take it.

..........what?  What does a "sense of entitlement" have to do with anything?  It's not about "deserving to live like a pop star," but what good comes from locking up everyone who uses drugs?  I'm not advocating drug use.  I am, however, much more in favor of filling the already limited number of cells with violent offenders, sex criminals, child abusers, etc. than with pot smokers and those who have chosen to use other drugs.  There are much better ways of handling them than locking them in prison cells when, in fact, they are more harmful to themselves than to others.............luci 

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RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/24/2007 7:16:09 PM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee

So, Ted Koppel's new show (to be aired Sunday, I think) says we have more people in jail than does any other country.

What do you think this says about us?


That there's a whole lot of us that don't know how to behave or respect authority or other people.

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RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/24/2007 7:17:42 PM   
ChicagoSwitchMal


Posts: 417
Joined: 9/9/2007
Status: offline 		The drug thing and the entitlement thing were seperate. I dont think think there is any good in locking up everyone who uses drugs. but I also think that American feel entitled to comfort where older countries are a bit more modest. And that sense of entitlement leads to crime.

< Message edited by ChicagoSwitchMal -- 9/24/2007 7:18:11 PM >

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RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/24/2007 7:17:44 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee

So, Ted Koppel's new show (to be aired Sunday, I think) says we have more people in jail than does any other country.

What do you think this says about us?


That we need to legalize drugs-and get rid of ephedra worldwide. I'm not a fan of druggies-but that covers 70 percent of convictions-there has to be a better way to deal with the issue than warehousing.

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RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/24/2007 7:19:35 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChicagoSwitchMal

The drug thing and the entitlement thing were seperate. I dont think think there is any good in locking up everyone who uses drugs. but I also think that American feel entitled to comfort where older countries are a bit more modest. And that sense of entitlement leads to crime.

Oh, ok.  Thanks for clearing that up............luci

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To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

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RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/24/2007 8:11:33 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		We are still just a small step above animals. I believe the more freedom in a society the more crime. Criminals are not as afraid to act on their base instincts.

In closed societies like Iran…where just being gay can get you hung…or being a prostitute will get you stoned to death…and drug use is immediate death… then yes you will have less crime. Fear helps control the criminal element at the expense of  personal freedom. 
I'll trade a little more crime for personal freedom. At least until I am staring down the barrel of a 38…. held by a nut case on angel dust … made legal by bleeding hearts that want all drugs made freely available.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/24/2007 8:20:04 PM >

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RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/24/2007 8:23:59 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		MsBearlee:

It's great that you raise this issue, but it's not really news in the sense that it has been this way for a very long time - decades even. That's why many of us laugh at the notion of the "land of the free." How can we be more free if even the Russian Federation and China have proportionally fewer people in prison? Those are supposed to be the bad guys, but somehow fewer go to jail anyway. We're the "good guys" but everyone is in prison...

It does make you think!

I also agree with slaveluci.

There are many nonviolent victim-less crimes for which people are locked up, It's just stupid. Of course, drugs are used to make money and maintain control over people, so there's no hope of any of this changing any time soon.

One of the great things about having so many smart and able-bodied people in prison is the cheap labor:
http://www.unicor.gov/

And then there is even the possibility of making money just by housing people in privately run prisons that have subcontracts with the government. Money, money, money!!!$$$
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prisons

The bottom line is this: the government and politicians aren't there for the reasons you think they are. They are there to make themselves lots of money and make lots of money for their friends too! What happens to you and yours doesn't mean anything to them except as it effects their profits.

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RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/24/2007 8:29:45 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I believe the more freedom in a society the more crime.


The facts go against your theory.

Have you not noticed that there are dozens of countries that are just as free, perhaps more free, than the U.S. and they have less crime overall?

It frankly boggles my mind that you could make this ignorant a statement.

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RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/24/2007 8:33:42 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Yes I agree with you...your mind is boggled

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RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/24/2007 8:35:09 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee

So, Ted Koppel's new show (to be aired Sunday, I think) says we have more people in jail than does any other country.

What do you think this says about us?


A key question, it seems to me, is whether we're talking about the absolute number of people in jail or a per capita number. The U.S. has Earth's third largest population (following China and then India), so it's not entirely surprising that our prison population is large too. It would be interesting to know how we compare on a per capita basis.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/24/2007 8:42:05 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		That's not the point. We consider ourselves a free country but it seems you can't do anything in this country anymore without being questioned or watched or criticized. Police are tasering people left and right. The government is scaring the population with terrorism every single day. And we do not have freedom of speech.

We are NOT a free country....

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RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/24/2007 8:44:27 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		i agree the war on drugs is flawed..and prison space is wasted on some of these folks.

[tho] i also believe a good % of those in prison should be there. for every crime the guy is convicted on there are x number of crimes he isnt caught on.

be that as it may- we have 2 systems of crimal justice. we hear about cases- with practically no mention that the typical joe is wiped out financially by hiring an attorney.

my pubic defender failed the lie dectector test machine which went heywire per his comments. i fired him; and maxed out the credit cards to get a real attorny...

anyhow- i suppose it isnt too hard to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.  certainly the wrong people can pull you down.

if we incarcerate 2 million now- in 20 years it will 4 million?

anyhow- if someone who isnt a bad guy gets caught up in prison- he might be decent when he enters- but comes out bitter- and a high % return to prison.

BTW- these men are not good dates! 

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RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/24/2007 9:27:43 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		http://christianparty.net/incarceration.htm

[N.B. I don't normally go to christian sites, but it was a quick google and I didn't feel like looking further.]

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RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/24/2007 11:59:15 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		America locks up more people because of its protestant cultural inheritance which is more prone to screwed up morality and righteous indignation than rational thought in social matters. Britain's thinking is equally fucked up on such matters too and keeps looking to America for answers instead of its European neighbours which have far less crime and social problems and far less people in prison, where rational thought and realism on such matters come before mindless moral indignation.

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