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RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/25/2007 7:53:14 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Here our Senate finally agreed marijuana should be legalized (which will never happen because America would close the border)

Western Europe has started to see a massive rise in the numbers of people with mental problems due to smoking canabis. I would have thought your wonderful government would take this into account.

Is there a benefit provided for those so disabled?

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(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 41

RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/25/2007 9:59:48 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

We are still just a small step above animals. I believe the more freedom in a society the more crime. Criminals are not as afraid to act on their base instincts.

In closed societies like Iran…where just being gay can get you hung…or being a prostitute will get you stoned to death…and drug use is immediate death… then yes you will have less crime. Fear helps control the criminal element at the expense of personal freedom.
I'll trade a little more crime for personal freedom. At least until I am staring down the barrel of a 38…. held by a nut case on angel dust … made legal by bleeding hearts that want all drugs made freely available.

Butch

That is utter crap.

Compare the crime stats per capita in Canada and America ... and we're even more liberal than America (gays can marry here, for example).

Last I checked the number of murders in all of Canada were less than the number of murders in Detroit alone.

It isn't freedom that causes the problem.

You have three factors at work in America:

1. Your insane war on drugs.
2. Your insane belief that black men should be incarcerated.
3. Your insane belief that conservative law-and-order types are "compassionate".

Here our Senate finally agreed marijuana should be legalized (which will never happen because America would close the border)
Here the racism is not nearly as prevalent.
Here the conservatives are kept in check by a healthy respect for liberalism (scandals notwithstanding).

Only in America could more government resources be spent on where the president places his dick than whether America should launch a war against Iraq (while North Korea builds the Bomb).

It isn't freedom that causes your crime: it's insanity to expect a society raised on selfishness to behave in a socially responsible manner.

It is always dangerous to talk in general terms and I apologize. However when it comes to per capita crime rates it does seem that, with a few exceptions, so called free societies have high rates. At least in developed countries.

http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/countries-with-highest-reported-crime-rates.html

Hmmm I can’t seem to find the decadent black man hating drug user intolerant backward USA…. Must be a mistake I’m sure…MY MY how dare they put the great and glorious enlightened Canada on such a list.

I do understand it is easy to find statistics to support any argument and the above link may or may not be accurate. But my opinion is no more crap than yours…just an opinion for consideration.

By the way I do think very highly of Canada and there is much to admire… but all countries have their problems.

I also agree that our drug policy is antiquated. I have no answers or solutions… I’m not sure there are any goods ones…However there are some drugs that if legalized would devastate our youth and underprivileged citizens.

Butch

(in reply to Bobkgin)

Post #: 42

RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/25/2007 10:29:42 AM

Zensee

Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Here our Senate finally agreed marijuana should be legalized (which will never happen because America would close the border)

Western Europe has started to see a massive rise in the numbers of people with mental problems due to smoking canabis. I would have thought your wonderful government would take this into account.

That's not what the study found.

quote:

"They said the results mean an estimated 800 cases of schizophrenia in the United Kingdom could be prevented each year by ending marijuana consumption."

Let's say there are only 8 million chronic users in the UK - that's one in 80,000 affected by these findings. Hardly sufficient numbers to justify a blanket ban or the wholesale incarceration of citizens.

If pot were legalised and supplied in bars instead of alcohol, I predict that weekend street violence would drop off the scale.

Back to the OP - the war on drugs is big business, even compared to the war on terror. Hundreds of thousands of people are employed policing, processing and warehousing citizens who get high. Meanwhile the CIA still funds its covert operations with narco-bucks...

And on it goes...

Z.

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(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 43

RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/25/2007 10:53:23 AM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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I truly don’t want to change the focus of the thread but everywhere in the world drugs present problems. Folks, with a lot more upstairs then us, have been trying for years to come up with an answer with no luck.

Another opinion that I’m sure many will call crap again… I believe some drugs must be banned and regulated.

I’m not talking about pot...and I’m sure there are some other relatively harmless drugs that could be changed to “regulated” rather then illegal.
I just can’t see how legalizing the free use of cocaine…meth….heroin…pcp…. prescription pain killers…etc will help in anyway. I think in the use of these highly addictive drugs are where most of the serious crimes are committed. Making them legal will stop some crime but at the terrible expense of public health.

In the USA and in general "AGAIN"…You are not put in jail and the key thrown away for possession of pot. I think making pot legal will make little difference in the general crime rate. And I am all for the legalization.

Its not, in my opinion, that the USA is anymore or less decadent than say China… it is just that I believe in GENERAL a free society works best… there is more free enterprise… there is more money in the hands of citizens…and with more money there is more demand for drugs. And with more drugs comes more crime.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/25/2007 11:12:08 AM >

(in reply to Zensee)

Post #: 44

RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/25/2007 11:07:38 AM

cyberdude611

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Joined: 5/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: latexbarbiets

The big problem with prisons is the return rate of repeat offenders, the % is extremely high. Another major problem is there is virtually NO rehabilitation for those that would like a better future for themselves. No educational classes(short of teaching you how to rake rocks), and what educational stuff there is has a extremely tiny budget. I knew of a computer and electronics program a while ago and all their computers were tsr 80s and a few 386's. You cant teach people with such outdated technology. If the prison system would focus more on education of jobs that are actually needed and up to date there would be less overall in jail. As for the extremely violent offenders, death penalty should be reinstated in most states. WHY lock a man up for 421years(someone was just sentanced to that), huge waste of governemnts money. Heres the real funny kicker, alot of new prisons are privatized, which means they are privately owned and for profit, so they MAKE more money the more prisoners they keep in the systems, thats F'd up.

Not only that but people who get out of jail for drugs have trouble getting their lives back on track because every business these days wants to be a "Drug Free Workplace" and for some reason they believe that if you did drugs once you will do it again and they won't hire you. People also assume this is a way to prevent people from doing drugs...which is obviously a very false assumption.

So when people can't get their lives back on track...they have nowhere else to turn but back to the drugs. The drugs offer that escape from the real world that they start craving.

(in reply to latexbarbiets)

Post #: 45

RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/25/2007 11:42:39 AM

Casie

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Joined: 1/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee

So, Ted Koppel's new show (to be aired Sunday, I think) says we have more people in jail than does any other country.

What do you think this says about us?

Hmm, possibly that we put to many non-violent drug offenders in prison, that mandatory minum is a joke, and that our laws need to be revised.

(in reply to MsBearlee)

Post #: 46

RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/25/2007 5:13:11 PM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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Hi Casie

The FBI says that only 13 percent of crimes committed in America in 2006 were drug related. Granted this was the largest single classification of crime but still far from the main problem. I’ll bet a lot of the other more serious crime like murder...assault and property crime are also related to drugs. But the guy or girl next door caught in a drug sting makes good TV but is a small percentage of total arrests.
Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/25/2007 6:05:26 PM >

(in reply to Casie)

Post #: 47

RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/25/2007 7:43:24 PM

SugarMyChurro

Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homicide_rate

This is more trustworthy in my view. That map provided no legend to understand precisely what information was being stated (at least I didn't see it).

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 48

RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/25/2007 8:03:36 PM

sharainks

Posts: 499
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline

Yes a lot of inmates are there for drug problems. The community corrections system is so overloaded its not the place to look for answers.
I work in a prison. Prison in the not answer either. All prison does is make someone more antisocial, hones their criminal skills, and creates a hatred of authority. Halfway houses are drug dens and prostitutes parade outside them daily. The ex cons get right back in trouble and back they go to prison. Its a nasty self perpetuating cycle that needs to be broken.

Most inmates will get out of prison and when they do they can live in the house next to you. The question is what kind of person do you want living next to you? Someone who has learned job skills and can work or steals from you the first time they have no money.

Prisons need to be about equipping inmates to live in the world. That should be what parenting is about too. However the one thing at least 85% of inmates have in common is parents who either taught them nothing or taught the kids to live the same miserable, broke, crime filled lives they have led.

Its pointless to debate that they don't deserve help or whether or not they have anything coming to them in terms of how they are treated. For the majority of people if we only got what we deserve most of us wouldn't have much. I don't have an objection to them working but in my state the daily...yes daily wage is $1.05 a day. With this they have to buy hygiene items, stamps, and pay for writing supplies if they hope to maintain contact with their families.

Its a brutal system and as long as it remains that way we will continue to churn out people who leave prison who are worse than when they went in.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

Post #: 49

RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/26/2007 11:03:23 PM

Termyn8or

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Wake up, with more drugs there is less crime. People are content, instead of out trying to steal to get drugs. And I still see no Constitutional authortity for them to forbid us from taking any damn well thing we please into our body.

T

(in reply to sharainks)

Post #: 50

RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/26/2007 11:45:12 PM

sundownhawk

Posts: 151
Joined: 8/17/2007
Status: offline

Yup, too many drug users locked up. Legalize it and tax it. I still won't be using them but oh well, maybe my taxes will go down.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 51

RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/27/2007 6:51:06 AM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Wake up, with more drugs there is less crime. People are content, instead of out trying to steal to get drugs. And I still see no Constitutional authortity for them to forbid us from taking any damn well thing we please into our body.

T

How do you figure this ? The UK home office did a study in 2005/2006 which showed 60% of those arrested had traces of one drug and 27 % traces of two. Not everyone earns the same as Britney Spears so they turn to crime to pay for drugs.

There is a definite link between drug use and crime, thats one of the reasons our jails are so full.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 52

RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/27/2007 7:38:35 AM

pseudopsychotic

Posts: 145
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

Imagine this if you will. We all know that once water starts falling from the sky, something primal happens to people. They all of a sudden turn to cave men-before he discovered the wheel- So naturally they cant locate how to direct this huge huke of junk they're in..and the, oh no, what are these thin blocks doing at their feet? Well only one way to find out right? Step on them, first on at a time, then both together, now make a beat while tapping on them(maybe to call game who knows)
And you all want to toss chemical inducing substance in this mix?
Crazy foo's

Bottom line is..People are already stupid..We don't need to enhance it.

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(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 53

RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/27/2007 8:19:08 AM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Here our Senate finally agreed marijuana should be legalized (which will never happen because America would close the border)

Western Europe has started to see a massive rise in the numbers of people with mental problems due to smoking canabis. I would have thought your wonderful government would take this into account.

Weird.

I have read exactly the opposite. Do a search for "endogenuous cannabinoid" and read what neurotransmitter is hijacked by THC, as well as the mental health benefits of THC, and you might change your mind about this.

The question I would ask is does marijuana cause mental health problems or do those with mental health problems smoke marijuana?

Sinergy

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 54

RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/27/2007 8:54:28 AM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

Where would you get the idea that it is 'either/or'? People aren't put together that simply, and simplistic views about causation rarely explain all the cases.

http://www.medicalmarijuanaprocon.org/bin/procon/procon.cgi?database=5-D-Subs-7.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=11&rnd=280.58184875715443

http://www.medicalmarijuanaprocon.org/bin/procon/procon.cgi?database=5-D-Subs-7.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=24&rnd=339.8015014819403

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 55

RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/27/2007 9:09:30 AM

ElectraGlide

Posts: 1246
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: Maryland
Status: offline

We need to have more people in jail. There are too many thieves here that do not work and break into our homes while we are at work. I do not use drugs and have no problem with a working person smoking weed in their own home with no kids around to see, but these crackheads and heroin junkies beating our grandparents brains in so they can take their money should be in jail. The system is too light on them, that is why they are out on the streets robbing and beating. We all have seen some piece of garbage on cable news beating some 90 year old guy or lady up on videotape. If anybody feels sorry because the piece of garbage will go to jail for it, should let him live with them while they are waiting for their trial, and let him move in with them after they get done with their way too short jail sentence.

< Message edited by ElectraGlide -- 9/27/2007 9:11:28 AM >

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(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 56

RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/27/2007 9:13:01 AM

MasDom

Posts: 375
Joined: 11/10/2005
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Greyarcher <Quote>I guess we could try something else, maybe choping off different body parts according to the crime? (at the least it will cut way back on repeat rapists.)

<Jokeingly>
Just hope you never need to steal shit archer.
Other wise take up the crossbow..

< Message edited by MasDom -- 9/27/2007 9:16:37 AM >

(in reply to greyarcher315)

Post #: 57

RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/27/2007 9:16:45 AM

romanticukmale1

Posts: 2
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

here is my 2ps worth
drugs represent a high proportion of crime
fact a drug addict can spent hundred of pounds a day
to feed the addiction where is he / she going to get the money from?? work
not a chance crime is the only way
answer break that link give them a chance to get free of drugs no drugs less crime
prisons MUST be a drug free place in some prison its easier to get drugs on the inside then on the out !!

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 58

RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/27/2007 9:21:28 AM

MasDom

Posts: 375
Joined: 11/10/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChicagoSwitchMal

The entitlement thing reminds me of probably my favorite movie quote of all time. From the Devils Advocate.

Eddie Barzoon.
Eddie Barzoon!
Ha! I nursed him through two divorces, a cocaine rehab, and a pregnant receptionist.
God's creature, right?
God's special creature?
Ha! And I've warned him, Kevin, I've warned him every step of the way.
Watching him bounce around like a fucking game, like a wind-up toy!
Like 250 pounds of self-serving greed on wheels!
The next thousand years is right around the corner, Kevin, and Eddie Barzoon--take a good look.
Because he's the poster child for the next millennium!
These people, it's no mystery where they come from.
You sharpen the human appetite to the point where it could split atoms with its desire, you build egos the size of cathedrals, fiberopticly connect the world to every-eager-impulse, grease even the dullest dreams with these dollar-green gold-played fantasies until every human becomes an aspiring emperor!
Becomes his own God!
Where can you go from there?
And as for scrambling from one deal to the next, who's got his eye on the planet?
As the air thickens, the water sours, even the bees honey takes on the metallic taste of radioactivity--and it just keeps coming!
And it just keeps coming!
Faster and faster!
There's no chance to think, to prepare, it's `buy futures, sell futures' when there is no future!!
We've got a runaway train, boy!!
We've got a billion Eddie Barzoons all jogging into the future.
Every one of them ready to fist-fuck God's ex-planet, lick their fingers clean as they reach out with their pristine cybernetic keyboards to total up their billable hours!!
And then it hits home!
It's a little late in the game to buy out now!!
Your belly's too full, your dick is sore, your eyes are bloodshot, and you're screaming for someone to help!!
But guess what?
There's no one there!!
You're all alone, Eddie!!
You're God's special little creature!!

"Jeez no wounder my dick exploded"...<MasDom>

(in reply to ChicagoSwitchMal)

Post #: 59

RE: America has more people in jail... - 9/27/2007 9:45:31 AM

MasDom

Posts: 375
Joined: 11/10/2005
Status: offline

I say legalize pot.
Tax it, then let every one out who was arrested for it.

As for jail...
Reevaluate every one in their, and let anything
past homicide, rape, robbery or kidnapping slide..

Other wise when things get worse, and they try to for close on my home, I,ll just rob a bank..
Either way I win....

A roof over my head and half way decent food vrs starvation, or a couple hundred thousand for my troubles..
Shit even if I die, it beats starving homeless.

You'd think you still get fed when your homeless just because this is America...
Most that really happens is the white collar people try to feed you if their deeply religious.
Every one else just eats in front of you, and calls you smelly.
At least all the fucking Ethiopians starve together..

Lucky I don't fist you for your food....
Then again most of you would like that..

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 60

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