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RE: Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 11:47:52 AM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Submissives screw up, dominants screw up...we are people and thus we are fallible. Why is it that it is assumed that a submissive has to be punished to learn the lessons, yet a dominant does not? Are submissives thought to be so stupid that we can't figure out or take responsibility for our actions unless painful stimuli is applied to our ass or we are deprived of something? My ass and my brain don't connect that way. My ass and my conscience aren't connected that way either. I've never heard a dominant say "I made a mistake or I've been bad, please whip me or stand me in a corner so I can learn the lesson". As soon as I hear dominants start bending over to take theirs, I'll start bending over to take mine. Until then, I will continue to think along the lines that punishment is unnecessary amongst responsible and accountable adults. If you speak of engaging in it as a means of play, I'm right there with ya. As a means of correcting poor behavior though, nah....can't wrap my head around that one.

As for safe words...I see no value in them at any time.


I agree, especially the parts I emphasized.

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 11:48:55 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Curiosity has hold of me again
This thread stems a little from all the safe word threads recently and my own trust and use of safe words / limits thread. I was discussing these threads with someone recently and the question of using a safe word when being punished came up!
For me punishment is very different from play. I do not in any way enjoy punishment or the pain from it but know it is necessary in the dynamic Sir and i have. I will say though that after punishment i get an extreme feeling of relief that i have paid for my mistakes.
So for those of you out there who use a safe word in play and are punished, are you still allowed to use your safe word when being punished?
If so why?
If not why not?
Thank you in advance.
 


I rarely use physical punishment. preferring to discuss why the wrong actions...whatever they were...occurred.  If I am angry over what has occurred, I step away for a bit and bring myself back down to a calmer level.  I go along with what Mercnbeth stated about not punishing when angry...don't see the point in it and can only see further problems cropping up because of it due to lack of clear thought when angry.

On the rare occasions when I have used physical punishment, there was no safe word allowed for several reasons...I never punish with the intent to create physical/emotion/mental harm, this is not a scene as I don't engage in play punishments, the punishment does not go on long enough for the use of a safe word.


(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 11:50:00 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Why shouldn't you? You can still feel nauseous while in the corner and need to get to the bathroom immediately. You can be standing there with your nose on a coin and having your knees locked and start to pass out. And you can still hit an emotional trigger that's going to blow the trust you formerly built up in the relationship out of the window if you don't stop and address the problem immediately.

Let's say you decide to send the sub to a closet to think over her misdeeds. And she goes but it brings on a flashback of being a tender age and locked in the closet by an evil step. Think that she can survive that without it causing her to fear and distrust you? This assumes she doesn't so totally fall apart she needs to spend 72 hours in a locked ward getting stabilized on meds.

Leave her standing, nose on coin and she passes out, hitting a desk on the way down and breaking her nose. ER next stop and her answer to how this happened will be totally truthful saying it happened while you were punishing her for spending more than her allotted ten minutes weekly on the phone to her mother, causing you to answer some questions as well as having to pay for the plastic surgery to repair the damage.

Accidents happen unexpectedly. If we knew they were going to happen, we'd change things so they didn't occur. Safewords can help to prevent accidents. And accident prevention is a good thing.


Are you specifically asking me or was this just a fast reply?



_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 11:50:12 AM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		If my dominant said ok I won't act as your dominant because I'm not pleased with you for what ever it is going on, we'd end the relationship. I can be a bit bratty and pushy, and if he don't push back harder sometimes, well I'll just keep on being a brat and being unruly. I need to be brought back undercontrol, not just ok I quit untill you decide to shape up. I won't be all like I am sorry I'll behave now, please resume your duties as dom. I'd just continue to b e unruly and out of hand adding to it angry, because of his cop out  and it in the end would ruin the relationship.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin



If my slave has refused to behave as a slave, without good cause, then I pull back and refuse to act as a master until such time as the slave acknowledges her error and asks me to re-assume control.


(in reply to Bobkgin)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 11:50:14 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Bob,
I have no idea how anything you said responds to the issue of abdicating your responsibility as a Master/Dom whenever an occasion of punishment arises.

quote:

In my relationships a human being always has the right to change his/her mind regarding a relationship.
Were that the case there is actual "power exchange" only interaction between two people as long as it serves each individual party. With no authority to dictate and enforce terms and conditions for the relationship the issue of punishment is moot. Under that circumstance "walking away" may not define "punishment" but it is your only recourse.
quote:

Actually, I'd prefer a slave to discuss her difficulties with me before she feels a need to betray my trust. That is usually where the trust is betrayed: the slave having problems and not bringing them to me so as to avoid disappointing me or causing more problems.
This implies that a breach of trust by your slave rationalizes a break by you. Once discussed at the onset of the relationship no other enforcement will be offered other than to quit being the Master until the situation changes. Do I have that correct?
quote:

Well, with me, assuming all has been resolved well, we pick up where we left off.
How is that accomplished, if your first reaction is to stop living up to your responsibility? How does "drama" represent her action and not your reaction?

You spoke in other threads about your need to "mold" your slave. Yet here instead of smoothing out any crack - you stop the potter wheel from spinning. Can you reconcile those two positions?

(in reply to Bobkgin)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 11:51:53 AM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

If my slave has refused to behave as a slave, without good cause, then I pull back and refuse to act as a master until such time as the slave acknowledges her error and asks me to re-assume control.

In other words;

my slave always controlls me


In a consensual relationship involving two human adults with rights, she controls herself and it is my responsibility to control myself and respect her right to resume control over her life.

For me, this is a relationship-ending event unless she can convince me otherwise.

I do not tolerate an abuse of trust on the part of those who have sworn to serve me.


_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 11:53:55 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Curiosity has hold of me again
This thread stems a little from all the safe word threads recently and my own trust and use of safe words / limits thread. I was discussing these threads with someone recently and the question of using a safe word when being punished came up!
For me punishment is very different from play. I do not in any way enjoy punishment or the pain from it but know it is necessary in the dynamic Sir and i have. I will say though that after punishment i get an extreme feeling of relief that i have paid for my mistakes.
So for those of you out there who use a safe word in play and are punished, are you still allowed to use your safe word when being punished?
If so why?
If not why not?
Thank you in advance.
 


No safe words during punishment.  That negates the very nature of punishment.

However, punishment should be appropriate to the situation and overall conducive to improved behavior in the future.  As a matter of practicality it should never go as far out on the edge as "edge play".

In essence, if one needs safe words for punishment...the punishments are seriously out of kilter.


_____________________________



(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 11:56:47 AM   
angelsub642


Posts: 57
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		I think that before a Dominant gives punishment, he should realize already what his Sub/Slave's limits are.  And push them just slightly, enough to scare the Sub into understanding what they did was wrong, and that in the future, you will go farther if necessary.  Having a safe word gives the Sub/Slave an out.

i have to definitely agree with you on your statement

(in reply to SubmissiveLion)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 11:57:55 AM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

If my dominant said ok I won't act as your dominant because I'm not pleased with you for what ever it is going on, we'd end the relationship. I can be a bit bratty and pushy, and if he don't push back harder sometimes, well I'll just keep on being a brat and being unruly. I need to be brought back undercontrol, not just ok I quit untill you decide to shape up. I won't be all like I am sorry I'll behave now, please resume your duties as dom. I'd just continue to b e unruly and out of hand adding to it angry, because of his cop out  and it in the end would ruin the relationship.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

If my slave has refused to behave as a slave, without good cause, then I pull back and refuse to act as a master until such time as the slave acknowledges her error and asks me to re-assume control.




I'm well aware my brand of M/s is unlikely to work with a brat.


_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 12:10:12 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		There's a diffrence between being a brat and having bratty moments.

(in reply to Bobkgin)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 12:17:33 PM   
FGB


Posts: 9
Joined: 9/15/2007
Status: offline 		And if only one size fitted all, we could just order it from amazon and close the forums.

I like the point Bobkgin is making about it being a relationship, relationships of whatever type need work and communication. I also like the posers that a TPE type relationship could throw up...if she's your slave, she's totally commited %100 to serving your will, so she doesent get a safeword right?

I suppose it really boils down to how you punish. Theres no point in beating a painpuppy, thats gonna encourage them. I find that a pointed chat to examine things in minute detail works wonders, and can be a damn sight more uncomfortable than just a few more bruises, but then Ive never owned someone so who knows if that would work in such a situation.

My two pence though...safewords are for life, not just subbies...If Id owned someone for 50 years, a TPE that amazed the worldwide community with its depth and trust, she'd still have her safeword. Because thats something that everyone should have, a choice. IF your one never wants to use it, thats up to them, but everyone has the right to say "um, STOP...now"

If your psychic, go ahead and drop the word, Id never presume to know someone that well...

Anyways, a' the best to ye and yours folks

(in reply to Bobkgin)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 12:19:27 PM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Bob,
I have no idea how anything you said responds to the issue of abdicating your responsibility as a Master/Dom whenever an occasion of punishment arises.


A slave who abdicates her responsibility to behave as a slave nullifies any claim to authority over her that I might have .

Ask any court of law. To ignore her is to risk forcible confinement, assault, etc etc. I do not see the need to risk any of this at the point when she is betraying my trust and abdicating her responsibility as a slave.

quote:

quote:

In my relationships a human being always has the right to change his/her mind regarding a relationship.
Were that the case there is actual "power exchange" only interaction between two people as long as it serves each individual party. With no authority to dictate and enforce terms and conditions for the relationship the issue of punishment is moot. Under that circumstance "walking away" may not define "punishment" but it is your only recourse.


Merc, no matter how much anyone tries, no one can deny the individual human being the ability to refuse to cooperate. Some humans have even chosen martyrdom rather than cooperation.

"Power exchange" only exists as long as those involved will it so.

And they only will it so providing they benefot from the relationship.

The only "authority to dictate and enforce terms and conditions" exists because the slave is willing to accept that relationship. What happens to that authority if she walks? She takes it with her.

Thus, I agree that punishment is moot. The issue of disobedience runs much deeper than something mere punishment can address.

When a slave disobeys, it is time to take a step back and reassess the relationship, because there is something wrong when a slave who claims to love me decides to disobey me.

quote:

quote:

Actually, I'd prefer a slave to discuss her difficulties with me before she feels a need to betray my trust. That is usually where the trust is betrayed: the slave having problems and not bringing them to me so as to avoid disappointing me or causing more problems.
This implies that a breach of trust by your slave rationalizes a break by you. Once discussed at the onset of the relationship no other enforcement will be offered other than to quit being the Master until the situation changes. Do I have that correct?


If she has betrayed my trust, yes.

My M/s requires a great deal of trust between master and slave.


quote:

quote:

Well, with me, assuming all has been resolved well, we pick up where we left off.
How is that accomplished, if your first reaction is to stop living up to your responsibility? How does "drama" represent her action and not your reaction?


Merc, you are assuming I've accepted responsibilities to force her back in line whether she wants it or not.

I don't accept those kind of responsibilities. She either serves me because it fulfills her to do so, or she doesn't. Those are my terms. No force is ever required to get her to comply. In all activities she is a willing participant, eager for a successful outcome.

Or not.

If I have to force her to comply, then there is no love or trust left in the relationship to give it meaning. Without that love and trust, I'd rather she go her way than stay because I'm forcing her to stay.

quote:


You spoke in other threads about your need to "mold" your slave. Yet here instead of smoothing out any crack - you stop the potter wheel from spinning. Can you reconcile those two positions?


I have pointed out that the molding process requires her cooperation. Without it, no molding can occur.

Disobedience is a clear sign of a lack of cooperation. I see no discrepancy between the two concepts.

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 12:23:28 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Failure to do so is a betrayal of my trust, as she is betraying her committment to our relationship.

To disobey is to bring an ending to her being my slave. Whether that is her intent or not is what I must discover, but I will not presume to continue being her master when I am in doubt about her intent. I'd rather err on the side of caution.



You are not betraying that trust as well by pulling away your dominance and control?  Is this a tit for tat situation?  You cannot correct a wrong by doing the same wrong thing yourself.  To expect to own a slave for any length of time and never have her disobey is a bit unreasonable imo.  Maybe there are perfect slaves out there, i have never heard of any.

Why would disobeying mean an end to the relationship?  No room for error?  How do people learn if not by correcting their mistakes?  This kind of behavior reminds me of the kid who wouldn't play with you unless you played by their rules, or they would collect their marbles and go home. Even as a kid i never had time for people like that. Life and love should be more flexible, becoming "the perfect slave" is a never ending process... errors and disobedience should be a cause to create changes that need to be made, not reasons to walk away. 

As far as i would be concerned if a dom had that approach with me i would feel betrayed that i could not count on him for guiance and direction.  Like when the chips are down i don't count for anything i am only as valuable as i am obedient? 

At any rate to answer the original OP - safeword during punishment would be ludicrous. When i was collared we did not use safewords for play, certainly not for punishments either, but then again he was more creative in thinking up punishments that weren't phsical as i am a masochist and he didn't want to muddy the waters.


_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to Bobkgin)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 12:40:31 PM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Failure to do so is a betrayal of my trust, as she is betraying her committment to our relationship.

To disobey is to bring an ending to her being my slave. Whether that is her intent or not is what I must discover, but I will not presume to continue being her master when I am in doubt about her intent. I'd rather err on the side of caution.



You are not betraying that trust as well by pulling away your dominance and control?  Is this a tit for tat situation?  You cannot correct a wrong by doing the same wrong thing yourself.  To expect to own a slave for any length of time and never have her disobey is a bit unreasonable imo.  Maybe there are perfect slaves out there, i have never heard of any.


A slave can make many mistakes without including disobedience, Velvet. When a slave understands that disobedience is a betrayal of my trust, she is less likely to indulge in such a whim.

Obedience in an M/s relationship is no less essential than monogamy in a vanilla relationship. Why should a breach in obedience be treated any differently than a breach in monogamy in a vanilla relationship?

quote:

Why would disobeying mean an end to the relationship?  No room for error?  How do people learn if not by correcting their mistakes? 


I'm sure many a cheating husband has asked the same sorts of questions

quote:


This kind of behavior reminds me of the kid who wouldn't play with you unless you played by their rules, or they would collect their marbles and go home.


As a master I have as much right to define my terms as a slave before entering a relationship, Velvet. You suggesting that the slave can unilaterally change those terms once in the relationship and I have no say in the matter?

quote:


Even as a kid i never had time for people like that. Life and love should be more flexible, becoming "the perfect slave" is a never ending process... errors and disobedience should be a cause to create changes that need to be made, not reasons to walk away. 


Errors and Disobedience are two different problems.

When would a slave who loves me deliberately choose Disobedience, Velvet? When does Disobedience not strike at the heart of the trust upon which the M/s relationship is founded?

If I cannot trust her to obey me, Velvet, what kind of relationship do I have?

quote:


As far as i would be concerned if a dom had that approach with me i would feel betrayed that i could not count on him for guiance and direction.  Like when the chips are down i don't count for anything i am only as valuable as i am obedient? 


No, you are only as good as the promises you keep, the trust you sustain through word and deed, all of which give credence to the love and devotion you feel.

At no time does love dictate betrayal of trust, Velvet. Disobedience is certainly a betrayal of trust in an M/s relationship. Thus disobedience is a direct attack against all the things that make the relationship meaningful: love and trust.


_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 12:45:45 PM   
pseudopsychotic


Posts: 145
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		 
A judge doesn't give a criminal a safe word. He gets sentenced and he serves his time.
He pays his dept to society, then its all in the past.
I expect to pay my dept, and I think, if I were to use a safe word in punshment(Not that it's an option), I'd feel like I cheated myself and my Sir. I didn't pay my dept.
It would be like an elephant in the room.
Now of course all this is said baring in mind that I trust my Sir not to put before me anything I couldnt handle. && If it did come to breaking bones, serious long lasting harm..Overboard and or totally mental exposure of the worse sort and the such likes..Yeah, I'd not only stop it, I woudnt see him again.


_____________________________

Got a problem with me Solve it.
Think I'm trippin? Tie my shoe
Can't face me? Turn around

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 12:49:38 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

So for those of you out there who use a safe word in play and are punished, are you still allowed to use your safe word when being punished?

No.
quote:


If not why not?

Not a whole lot of danger in writing essays, grammar rules or being made to balence on one foot. Certainly I'm allowed to tell him if my hand is cramping but I would consider using a safeword in that situation to be abuse of the safeword.
quote:


Thank you in advance.
 

No problem.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 12:53:37 PM   
SirMichealspeach


Posts: 73
Joined: 1/13/2006
Status: offline 		While Master and i have never discussed the use of a safe word during punishment, i would never even consider using one. If i am being punished for an infraction of His rules, what would i learn if i coould safe word out of the punishment?  makes no sense to me.. again it all comes down to trust of ones Master.
Sir Micheals peach 

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 12:55:50 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Ask any court of law.

Bob - If a court of law is required or referenced regarding the dynamic between two people in a relationship - the time for "punishment" and "safe-words" has passed and we're not talking about the same subject.

The reference is to a relationship where there is an assignment of authority and trust to live by it and enforce it is assumed to exist between the partners. I'll stipulate that at any time my beth can say no to the overall dynamic between us and in effect end our relationship. I have similar ability. No point to debate the "ultimate" potential ending. But again, that's not the point of discussion.

quote:

When a slave disobeys, it is time to take a step back and reassess the relationship, because there is something wrong when a slave who claims to love me decides to disobey me.
Here we are in agreement but I don't understand how any change or correction can take place by unilateral withdraw of authority, and without some form of interaction that identifies the problem, discusses the issues around it, and ends with some form of benchmark so as to not have any doubt that the ultimate dynamic remains in place and can be relied upon. 

quote:

because there is something wrong when a slave who claims to love me decides to disobey me.
Running the risk of losing my "Master"-card; what if it turns out the problem was, or there was something wrong with, me? I know and accept I can be wrong and caused or influenced the behavior that necessitated punishment. I'll find that out by the process I described. Would you find that out by stopping to be a Master to her? Why couldn't the slave believe the corollary of your statement - that "a Master who claims to love me will correct me."?

quote:

She either serves me because it fulfills her to do so, or she doesn't. Those are my terms. No force is ever required to get her to comply. In all activities she is a willing participant, eager for a successful outcome.
Or not.
If I have to force her to comply,
Then where is does your "molding" come into play? She either is or isn't; means there is no "molding".
quote:

I have pointed out that the molding process requires her cooperation. Without it, no molding can occur.
But not yours? You stop "cooperating" as soon as she somehow disobeys and abuses your trust?

You said in other thread...
quote:

 keep in mind that to love a slave requires that I maintain the discipline and dynamic she requested of me to begin the relationship. To break faith in either area is an act of betrayal, not an act of love (bearing in mind that emergencies and other safety issues may require alterations in the discipline and dynamic).
Are you representing that the way you "maintain the discipline and dynamic..." is by withholding discipline and dynamic exchange?

(in reply to Bobkgin)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 1:30:15 PM   
Pyrrsefanie


Posts: 1222
Joined: 9/18/2007
From: NEW HAMPSHAAAAAAH!
Status: offline 		I usually don't get to use a safeword during punishment, although I'm sure that in case of emergency (i.e. 'STOP I'M BLEEDING FROM MY EYES') it would still put an end to things.

I've never reached that point during a punishment, though.  I've had my limits pushed and taken on more than I ever thought I could... my Master's got a pretty good grip on how to tell when it becomes too much for me based on my body language and reactions.  We also have a rule about not breaking the skin in punishment, only in play, and only if it's discussed beforehand.

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 2:20:51 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelsub642

think that before a Dominant gives punishment, he should realize already what his Sub/Slave's limits are.  And push them just slightly, enough to scare the Sub into understanding what they did was wrong, and that in the future, you will go farther if necessary.  Having a safe word gives the Sub/Slave an out.

i have to definitely agree with you on your statement

***********************************************************
I think that before a Dominant gives play, he should realize already what his Sub/Slave's limits are.  And push them just slightly, enough to scare the Sub into understanding what they did was wrong, and that in the future, you will go farther if necessary.  Having a safe word gives the Sub/Slave an out.

Same same????????????

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to angelsub642)
Profile   Post #: 40
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