Bobkgin
Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I'll stipulate that at any time my beth can say no to the overall dynamic between us and in effect end our relationship. I have similar ability. No point to debate the "ultimate" potential ending.
Good, we are in agreement on this point.
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When a slave disobeys, it is time to take a step back and reassess the relationship, because there is something wrong when a slave who claims to love me decides to disobey me. Here we are in agreement but I don't understand how any change or correction can take place by unilateral withdraw of authority
I agree. However it must be remembered that the slave's disobedience is the "unilateral withdrawal of authority" Her refusal to obey denies me any authority over her.
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and without some form of interaction that identifies the problem, discusses the issues around it,
I've talked about that earlier in this thread.
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and ends with some form of benchmark so as to not have any doubt that the ultimate dynamic remains in place and can be relied upon.
That would be the preferred ending to such a crisis, but might not be the one that actually occurs.
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because there is something wrong when a slave who claims to love me decides to disobey me. Running the risk of losing my "Master"-card; what if it turns out the problem was, or there was something wrong with, me? I know and accept I can be wrong and caused or influenced the behavior that necessitated punishment. I'll find that out by the process I described. Would you find that out by stopping to be a Master to her?
I don't see why not.
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Why couldn't the slave believe the corollary of your statement - that "a Master who claims to love me will correct me."?
She's most welcome to, but I doubt I'd be the master for her if she expects correction after disobedience.
I'm quite willing to correct errors. I do not see disobedience as the same as an error.
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She either serves me because it fulfills her to do so, or she doesn't. Those are my terms. No force is ever required to get her to comply. In all activities she is a willing participant, eager for a successful outcome.
Or not.
If I have to force her to comply, Then where is does your "molding" come into play? She either is or isn't; means there is no "molding". quote:
I have pointed out that the molding process requires her cooperation. Without it, no molding can occur. But not yours? You stop "cooperating" as soon as she somehow disobeys and abuses your trust?
As I said, molding is a cooperative process. Disobedience is a refusal to cooperate. I fail to see where you are confused by this.
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You said in other thread...
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keep in mind that to love a slave requires that I maintain the discipline and dynamic she requested of me to begin the relationship. To break faith in either area is an act of betrayal, not an act of love (bearing in mind that emergencies and other safety issues may require alterations in the discipline and dynamic). Are you representing that the way you "maintain the discipline and dynamic..." is by withholding discipline and dynamic exchange?
Merc, the above quote is about the normal dynamic within a healthy relationship.
Disobedience is not something that I consider a normal dynamic within a healthy relationship.
Disobedience in my M/s is just another way of quitting.
In discussing it with her after she has disobeyed, it might turn out that she really didn't want to quit, that there was some confusion, a misunderstanding, etc.
But that doesn't happen often.
More often it has been a residual of selfishness, or the first sign I get that she feels uncomfortable with the relationship.
As I said, I prefer this be discussed without tht need for disobedience to trigger the discussion. I encourage open communication at all times. But some people can't handle that responsibility, and act out their feelings through something like disobedience.
Which is good reason for me to never ignore it, or assume that the relationship is intact when disobedience occurs.
_____________________________
When all is said and done, what will you regret?
That you never really lived?
Or there was so much living left to do?
For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.
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RE: Safe punishment. - 
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