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RE: wal-mart...is it evil or a cult? - 9/29/2007 8:46:59 PM   
FangsNfeet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3


FangsNfeet Don't ever think I'm actually attacking you just because your name happens to be what cm lists in my response.  I wasn't directing it at you, just saying, wow this was started as a frivilous funny post, why can't we all get along type of thing.
l


I know laurell3. Not once in this thread have I accused you of attacking me nor anyone else. I'm sure that when you read my post again, you'll realize that I agree with you. You'll also notice who I'm talking about. I took your post as a defense towards me against the "bomb throwers" you are refering to. My reply was meant to be in agreement towards your post. Ok gorgious? 

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RE: wal-mart...is it evil or a cult? - 9/29/2007 8:48:29 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: InnocentYoungSub
You're the type of SOB that would blame a rape victim for acting sexy, aren't you?


Nope I would blame the fuckin whore who sold her ass on the street for a $10 rock.

I suppose you and your Daddy are starting your painting business to give away your time and labor, and not to actually make money.

Perhaps you need to change your name to NaiveYoungSub

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RE: wal-mart...is it evil or a cult? - 9/29/2007 9:25:38 PM   
FangsNfeet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

I suppose you and your Daddy are starting your painting business to give away your time and labor, and not to actually make money.

Perhaps you need to change your name to NaiveYoungSub


I don't know what IYS wants. He's never made it clear. He keeps going on about Life and Business not being fare but has not recommended a solution or how things should be. His ramblings about the "All Mighty Dollar" being more important than human beings does not offer much if anything to go on. 

Employees are getting screwed at Wal-Mart? If so, I wonder what a fair wage for a cashier or a stocker should be. What will it take to make everyone happy?

So IYS is starting a business with his dad? Now this is getting interesting. Giving the bennifit that they'll have some growth and success, they'll have to hire help. I wonder how much he's going to offer as wage payment for his employees. I hope it's fair enough that no one complains or leaves because they find another business that pays more.

So what will happen if IYS Painting Corp becomes a big success. How will he feel when he sees competition go out of business? Will he feel sorry for them? Will he offer them a painting job? Or will he begin to think "They should have been better and less expensive than me."

I can't wait to see how his ethics and how business works go together has he begins working, hireing, and competing with the competition. 


 

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RE: wal-mart...is it evil or a cult? - 9/29/2007 9:32:58 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Wal-Mart has a 70% turn over in employees? Good for those who had quit. If they found someone else who payed better, I hope they would be smart enough to go where the money is. If this turn over rate continues, Wal-Mart will have to revealuate what it takes to keep good employees. The Turn Over rate proves that no one has to work for Wal-Mart.
No the turn over rate is indicative of an employer who does not offer their employee what they need in recompense for their services.  That Walmart can sustain such a high attrition rate is more indicative of the number of people without a lot of marketable skills.

Is Costco better? I'm not going to argue. It's fribolous to debate on where it's best to shop for the cheapest items or work for the best wages/bennifits. Everyone has there preference.
It was not my contention that one was better than the other but rather a difference in business models in which one has a high attrition rate and the other does not.

No one has to work. It's a choice to work. Food, clothing, and shelter can be obtained in a number of ways. Live on the streets, the wild, hunt, bum, and or steal. None of us have to do anything untill we want something. There's always a choice.
While that may sound feasible on the surface it fails to pass the test of reality.  There are laws against "living on the street".  There is no "wild" all of the land in the U.S. is owned by someone or the government...you can't even go for a walk in a national park without paying.  Begging and stealing are against the law. 
Everyone needs food clothing and shelter.  It is only a choice if you consider suicide as an alternative. 
You may have a comfortable life and you may be under the impression that you have achieved this by your own efforts.  The fact remains that for most of amerika they are only about two and a half pay checks away from a welfare check.
This discussion is about how Walmart uses their wealth to gain unfair advantage in the market place.  There is ample evidence that that is true.
If you had read the link I posted you may have noticed that Walmart has been divesting itself of those ventures in which they could not coerce or bribe the government to subsidize them.
No one except Walmart is looking for a hand out and to justify their egregious behavior in the name of profit is simply obfuscation.
The Chinese may be on to something....when you find a politician on the take you arrest him try him and if he is convicted he is executed.
I am not saying close Walmart down....I am only suggesting that Walmart play by the same rules as everyone else.
I am suggesting that the U.S. government not allow goods produced with slave labor into our country.  It seems more than a little hypocritical to outlaw slavery here and then go to another country and utilize slaves there.
 

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RE: wal-mart...is it evil or a cult? - 9/29/2007 9:40:33 PM   
GoddessMine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Wal-Mart has a 70% turn over in employees? Good for those who had quit. If they found someone else who payed better, I hope they would be smart enough to go where the money is. If this turn over rate continues, Wal-Mart will have to revealuate what it takes to keep good employees. The Turn Over rate proves that no one has to work for Wal-Mart.
No the turn over rate is indicative of an employer who does not offer their employee what they need in recompense for their services.  That Walmart can sustain such a high attrition rate is more indicative of the number of people without a lot of marketable skills.

Is Costco better? I'm not going to argue. It's fribolous to debate on where it's best to shop for the cheapest items or work for the best wages/bennifits. Everyone has there preference.
It was not my contention that one was better than the other but rather a difference in business models in which one has a high attrition rate and the other does not.

No one has to work. It's a choice to work. Food, clothing, and shelter can be obtained in a number of ways. Live on the streets, the wild, hunt, bum, and or steal. None of us have to do anything untill we want something. There's always a choice.
While that may sound feasible on the surface it fails to pass the test of reality.  There are laws against "living on the street".  There is no "wild" all of the land in the U.S. is owned by someone or the government...you can't even go for a walk in a national park without paying.  Begging and stealing are against the law. 
Everyone needs food clothing and shelter.  It is only a choice if you consider suicide as an alternative. 
You may have a comfortable life and you may be under the impression that you have achieved this by your own efforts.  The fact remains that for most of amerika they are only about two and a half pay checks away from a welfare check.
This discussion is about how Walmart uses their wealth to gain unfair advantage in the market place.  There is ample evidence that that is true.
If you had read the link I posted you may have noticed that Walmart has been divesting itself of those ventures in which they could not coerce or bribe the government to subsidize them.
No one except Walmart is looking for a hand out and to justify their egregious behavior in the name of profit is simply obfuscation.
The Chinese may be on to something....when you find a politician on the take you arrest him try him and if he is convicted he is executed.
I am not saying close Walmart down....I am only suggesting that Walmart play by the same rules as everyone else.
I am suggesting that the U.S. government not allow goods produced with slave labor into our country.  It seems more than a little hypocritical to outlaw slavery here and then go to another country and utilize slaves there.




In all sincerity: thank goodness you're here.
And to reiterate: any lofty claims of level-playing fields in this country is derived from pure fantasy, and not the good kind.
Trust Me, I'm a trustfund baby of color .

Love,
GM





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RE: wal-mart...is it evil or a cult? - 9/29/2007 11:05:17 PM   
FangsNfeet


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I can choose to break the law anytime I please. If I end up in jail or prison, there's my food, clothing, and shelter. Whatever the case, there is no law nor requirment that says that I have to work. I don't have to do anything if I choose not to.

As for Wal-Marts ethics, where is the "unfair advantage?"

As for labor laws in China, it's citizens must like them. After all, the people of China are notorious for causing large riots. The people of China have the mob force and the power to do everything Americans did during the Industrial Age of riots, unions, and having labor laws passed.

So Wal-Mart should play by the same rules as the rest of us? Please explain what the rules are. What are the rules that I have to follow that Wal-Mart is breaking?

I do see your point in the use of slave labor. I'd perfer to buy a shirt by someone who applied for the job rather than forced into the factory with a shot gun. The tough part is knowing who forces people to work and who has people who is willing to do the job. With everything I buy, I can only hope that everyone who participated in the production of my murchandice, was able to take a slither of  profit.







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RE: wal-mart...is it evil or a cult? - 9/30/2007 1:02:35 AM   
seeksfemslave


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quote:

FangsandFeet
As for labor laws in China, it's citizens must like them


he he he he he he he he, say no more eh what ? 
If you put the emphasis on the must, the meaning is changed and the comment begins to make sense.

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RE: wal-mart...is it evil or a cult? - 9/30/2007 1:41:45 AM   
laurell3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3


FangsNfeet Don't ever think I'm actually attacking you just because your name happens to be what cm lists in my response.  I wasn't directing it at you, just saying, wow this was started as a frivilous funny post, why can't we all get along type of thing.
l


I know laurell3. Not once in this thread have I accused you of attacking me nor anyone else. I'm sure that when you read my post again, you'll realize that I agree with you. You'll also notice who I'm talking about. I took your post as a defense towards me against the "bomb throwers" you are refering to. My reply was meant to be in agreement towards your post. Ok gorgious? 


got it  thanks.
l

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RE: wal-mart...is it evil or a cult? - 9/30/2007 8:01:29 AM   
velvetears


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

Would you consider yourself materialistic with no work ethic?  Trying to understand where self pride and wanting to take care of oneself and contribute something meaningful comes into play?


I'm materialistic and I have a strong work ethic thank you very much.

All I am pointing out  is that no one has to work if they wish not to. We don't have to do anything untill we decide that we want something. I want and like things, so I work to get them.

So where does self pride come into play? Pride is a double edge sword. Needless to say, I'll admit to sucking it up more than once to do what was needed in having what I want. I don't have to have my life style. I can throw it away along with my career if I choose to. All the same, I'd rather not make the decission.


You don't have kids do you? 

You don't have to look both ways before crossing the street, no one forces you to.  i bet you do though.  To make an assertion that work is a choice and not optional is taking it to the extreme. It is not something most people consider optional.  And many people work  not just for material things, they work to survive, or feed their children who will be taken away from them if they don't.  Being a street bum or convict aren't options most sane people put on the table. i can just see it now, sit your kid down and explain their options after they graduate - Well sally lets see, you can go get a job, go to college or be a bum - your choice.  If you are going to make arguments, please stick to realistic options, not extremes in making your pov stronger, caue all it reallly does is weaken it.


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RE: wal-mart...is it evil or a cult? - 9/30/2007 9:32:45 AM   
pahunkboy


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hell yeah, it is demonic. ild like the maker of le toilet brushes to SHOW ME how they work!  im sick of shitty merchandise. even the reciept ink fades so as you cant see it when it gets old- i took somthing back that they would not exchange so i said well im not paying to dispose of it- and i left it there. what are they going to do- charge me w illegal dumping>?

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RE: wal-mart...is it evil or a cult? - 9/30/2007 4:11:04 PM   
FangsNfeet


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No matter how extreme or realistic, the bottom line is that no one has to do anything. Like you said "It is not something most people consider optional." That's right. They choose not to consider it. Belive it or not, doing absolutly nothing is a realistic option. There's nothing to force us to do anything untill we want something.

It's not an option. Umm, how many times do we see people breaking that rule?

We may not always get to do what we want, but we can always refuse to do things we don't want to do.

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RE: wal-mart...is it evil or a cult? - 9/30/2007 11:13:36 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

I can choose to break the law anytime I please. If I end up in jail or prison, there's my food, clothing, and shelter. Whatever the case, there is no law nor requirment that says that I have to work. I don't have to do anything if I choose not to.
Clearly you have neither been to jail nor do you seem interested in discussion. 


As for Wal-Marts ethics, where is the "unfair advantage?"
I have read a lot of your post and you really are much brighter than this statement would lead one to believe.
Do you really expect me to believe that you are completely unaware that Walmart will demand that a city exempt them from taxes if they build a store in their community.  Do you want me to believe that you have never considered that Walmart bribes local politicians.  You know as well as I do how business is done.  If you are content to call this a discussion then please engage yourself in such.


As for labor laws in China, it's citizens must like them. After all, the people of China are notorious for causing large riots. The people of China have the mob force and the power to do everything Americans did during the Industrial Age of riots, unions, and having labor laws passed.
This applies to my statements about China in what way?

So Wal-Mart should play by the same rules as the rest of us? Please explain what the rules are. What are the rules that I have to follow that Wal-Mart is breaking?

I do see your point in the use of slave labor. I'd perfer to buy a shirt by someone who applied for the job rather than forced into the factory with a shot gun.
One needn't be forced into the factory at the point of a shot gun...the simple expedient of the need for food clothing and shelter works just as well.
 

The tough part is knowing who forces people to work and who has people who is willing to do the job. With everything I buy, I can only hope that everyone who participated in the production of my murchandice, was able to take a slither of  profit.

Instead of responding to my points and position you seem to prefer to do the "texas two step" and dance to the hyperbole of a scenario of your own choosing.








< Message edited by thompsonx -- 9/30/2007 11:31:01 PM >

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RE: wal-mart...is it evil or a cult? - 10/1/2007 7:06:47 AM   
Marc2b


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If everyone at your family reunion is wearing a Walmart uniform... you might be a redneck.


Also: concerning the credibility of Wikipedia articles, it works like this – if the article supports you contention, then Wikipedia is reliable. If it does not support you contention, then it is not reliable.

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RE: wal-mart...is it evil or a cult? - 10/1/2007 7:35:59 PM   
FangsNfeet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

As for Wal-Marts ethics, where is the "unfair advantage?"
I have read a lot of your post and you really are much brighter than this statement would lead one to believe.
Do you really expect me to believe that you are completely unaware that Walmart will demand that a city exempt them from taxes if they build a store in their community.  Do you want me to believe that you have never considered that Walmart bribes local politicians.  You know as well as I do how business is done.  If you are content to call this a discussion then please engage yourself in such.


As for labor laws in China, it's citizens must like them. After all, the people of China are notorious for causing large riots. The people of China have the mob force and the power to do everything Americans did during the Industrial Age of riots, unions, and having labor laws passed.
This applies to my statements about China in what way?



So what's wrong with wanting or demanding to be exempt from taxes? If a city wants Wal-Mart and Wal-Mart wants in, there's nothing wrong with a little bargining. If the city council approves tax exemption, then that's there arrangment.

As for buying politicians, some call it bribing and others call it campain funding. Either way, everyone likes to support and help the politicians who will best support there interest. Very rarely in politics do we ever not see "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine." However you see it, having the most money and being able to give the most support is not an unfair advantage. It's survival of the fittist. The other companies, voters, supporters, etc... should have caught on earlier and made there financial power stronger.

China, China, China. All I'm saying is the mass numbers of people who live in China have the power to change anything they wish. If they feel that the current labor laws neglect and force them into slavery, then they can lench mob just about any C.E.O. or any political leader who can't make it to there get away plane. So buying something marked with "Made In China" does not bother me.       

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RE: wal-mart...is it evil or a cult? - 10/1/2007 8:04:02 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

As for Wal-Marts ethics, where is the "unfair advantage?"
I have read a lot of your post and you really are much brighter than this statement would lead one to believe.
Do you really expect me to believe that you are completely unaware that Walmart will demand that a city exempt them from taxes if they build a store in their community.  Do you want me to believe that you have never considered that Walmart bribes local politicians.  You know as well as I do how business is done.  If you are content to call this a discussion then please engage yourself in such.


As for labor laws in China, it's citizens must like them. After all, the people of China are notorious for causing large riots. The people of China have the mob force and the power to do everything Americans did during the Industrial Age of riots, unions, and having labor laws passed.
This applies to my statements about China in what way?



So what's wrong with wanting or demanding to be exempt from taxes? If a city wants Wal-Mart and Wal-Mart wants in, there's nothing wrong with a little bargining. If the city council approves tax exemption, then that's there arrangment.

As for buying politicians, some call it bribing and others call it campain funding. Either way, everyone likes to support and help the politicians who will best support there interest. Very rarely in politics do we ever not see "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine." However you see it, having the most money and being able to give the most support is not an unfair advantage. It's survival of the fittist. The other companies, voters, supporters, etc... should have caught on earlier and made there financial power stronger.
I am sorry I completely misunderstood your position.  Graft,fraud,corruption,extortion and murder are all OK in your business plan.  That does put a different complexion on your point.  It is clear that you do not believe in free enterprise or the rule of law. Good business is just a function of what you can get away with. 
I do appreciate your candor.



China, China, China. All I'm saying is the mass numbers of people who live in China have the power to change anything they wish. If they feel that the current labor laws neglect and force them into slavery, then they can lench mob just about any C.E.O. or any political leader who can't make it to there get away plane.
You do not seem to know much about China and how it is governed.

So buying something marked with "Made In China" does not bother me.
I can certainly see why buying slave labor produced products does not bother you.      

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RE: wal-mart...is it evil or a cult? - 10/1/2007 10:42:07 PM   
SusanofO


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I think Wal-Mart is a thriving, seemingly unstoppable business phenomenon, started by a man (now dead) who had a great idea people liked well enough to enable him to expand his concept pretty rapidly, and he ran with it - and even now that he's dead, it is still a store millions shop at. I think if it were not a part of the "American scene" anyway - the standard of living in the U.S. would likely fall a lot- because prices for may goods  would likely rise, if it weren't a major and feared marketplace competitor.

Poeple can de-cry this all they want, as being a "bad thing" BUT- I do notice some Wal-mart stores thriving in places (countries)now, even, where capitalism does not predominate as the main economic model. Since that is the case, I'd say that it's an incredibly popular idea put into concrete form that's indeed definintely thriving.

IMO, no matter how anyone feels about it - Wal-mart ain't going out of business anytime soon, globally, or otherwise.

If people really don't appreciate the kind of capitalistic enterprenuerism that can at least give rise to a Wal-mart, and want all kinds of regulation to allow "Mom and Pop" stores to thrive by not having to deal with Wal-mart at all, as a competitor, for instance - I think they should realize that as a concept, that belief in wide practice might well end up cutting their own consumer (as well as enterprenuerial) throats.

Because you really can't have it both ways, IMO. Why people can't just realize this once and for all is beyond me.

thompsonX: FYI (IMO)- The entire Chinese economy practically supports the U.S. economy in many ways, like it or not - and China supplies many more U.S. stores than just Wal-Mart, with merchandise to sell to U.S. consumers. In fact, I'd be hard-pressed to name many U.S. establishments that don't handle some Chinese produced merchandise in some form.

IMO, If China stopped producing altogether for the U.S. tommorrow, I am betting the average American's standard of living would fall about 1,000 %. 

So - what is your alternative proposal, for replacing Chinese goods and keeping the U.S. standard of living stable in the U.S. economy then?

And please - do tell me how I as a consumer am personally responsible for the way the Chinese government chooses to:

1) Govern and 2) Manage their economy - and especially:

3) How my stopping my Wal-mart shopping will guarantee definitely revamping the Chinese government, as well as their economy, into a form more palatable to those who love the idea of democratizing foreign countries, so they can "feel better" about themselves?

Are you seriously suggesting that boycotting Wal-mart as a U.S. consumer is some guarantee the Chinese government will stop governing their population a certain way?

To me, this idea would suggest a belief there are no other factors at play as far as how the Chinese choose to govern, or run their economy. Factors like: History, tradition, sociological differences, etc. that U.S. consumers, IMO, simply have little or no impact on (whether they want to believe it, or not), no matter what their consumer spending choices might be.

Strike up one more round of applause for some American consumers' over-estimation of their impact on world affairs. Sorry to be so blunt, but I think world politics (not just U.S. - China politics), as well as Chinese history, have at least as much to do with how China is run by the Chinese government - as any American influence on their economy does.
And probably way more.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 10/1/2007 11:26:18 PM >


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That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: wal-mart...is it evil or a cult? - 10/2/2007 5:38:51 AM   
MissSCD


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Op:

Not sure where you are taking this one, but I work in retail.  I don't work for them, but won't say here who I work for.
I can bash Walmart I suppose.   That would defeat the purpose of what we do in this life. 
I would not call them evil, just big business.  They control retail in most areas.  They come in and most of the older businesses in a small town cannot compete with their prices.
My store, beats their prices big time.  I love to work for them because we are a good deal. 
Walmart is not evil by any means.  I know I cannot come out without spending at least $100.00 on things I do not need.  I stay away as much as possible.

Regards, MissSCD

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RE: wal-mart...is it evil or a cult? - 10/2/2007 7:36:35 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

thompsonX: FYI (IMO)- The entire Chinese economy practically supports the U.S. economy in many ways, like it or not -
It is not a function of what I like...but before you repeat the above comment you might check the gdp for the U.S.  Yes we still make stuff too.

and China supplies many more U.S. stores than just Wal-Mart, with merchandise to sell to U.S. consumers. In fact, I'd be hard-pressed to name many U.S. establishments that don't handle some Chinese produced merchandise in some form.
The U.S. chamber of commerce will be happy to give you a rather extensive list. 

IMO, If China stopped producing altogether for the U.S. tommorrow, I am betting the average American's standard of living would fall about 1,000 %
I am not sure just how you did the math to arrive at your conclusion nor am I cognizant of how you determine "standard of living"

So - what is your alternative proposal, for replacing Chinese goods and keeping the U.S. standard of living stable in the U.S. economy then?
This was part and parcel of the argument by slave owners to justify slave labor in this country.  We now see the fallacy of it for them but somehow fail to see the fallacy of it for ourselves.

And please - do tell me how I as a consumer am personally responsible for the way the Chinese government chooses to:

1) Govern and 2) Manage their economy - and especially:

3) How my stopping my Wal-mart shopping will guarantee definitely revamping the Chinese government, as well as their economy, into a form more palatable to those who love the idea of democratizing foreign countries, so they can "feel better" about themselves?
Why would you even be interested in changing how China deals with China.  This is simply a question of whether it is ethical to buy products manufactured by slave labor.

Are you seriously suggesting that boycotting Wal-mart as a U.S. consumer is some guarantee the Chinese government will stop governing their population a certain way?

To me, this idea would suggest a belief there are no other factors at play as far as how the Chinese choose to govern, or run their economy. Factors like: History, tradition, sociological differences, etc. that U.S. consumers, IMO, simply have little or no impact on (whether they want to believe it, or not), no matter what their consumer spending choices might be.

Strike up one more round of applause for some American consumers' over-estimation of their impact on world affairs. Sorry to be so blunt, but I think world politics (not just U.S. - China politics), as well as Chinese history, have at least as much to do with how China is run by the Chinese government - as any American influence on their economy does.
And probably way more.
I have never suggested that the U.S. consumer has any business in telling another foreign nation how to act.  As I have previously mentioned it is about personal ethics and nothing more.

- Susan

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: wal-mart...is it evil or a cult? - 10/2/2007 9:06:34 AM   
GhitaAmati


Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline
I avoid wal mart whenever possible...unfortunantly..it isnt always possible. Where I live, I have two choices for grocery shopping. Walmart..and publix. Now, if I felt like driving 45 minutes one way...I could choose from quite a few other places...but if I need to run for a quick stop...why the hell would I turn a 15 minute shopping trip into a 2 hour trip? expecially with gas prices the way they are. Walmart, ive seen them do it in three small towns lately...they come in with their nice clean store with cheap prices, hire plently of workers, run every other business in the county out of business, then fire half their employees, stop cleaning their restrooms, and jack their "always, low prices" up higher and higher......

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(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 79
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