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RE: Is God a Woman? - 10/1/2007 1:19:12 PM

DMFParadox

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I'm working on that. No, seriously, I really have something along those lines; I might not be able to prove God doesn't exist... but I *can* prove that the cosmos didn't need a god to pop out of nothing fully formed. Thus, there's no specific need for a god... S/he may exist, but the universe came first. Actually, nothing came first. It gets confusing and complicated after that point, unless you've got a good grasp on set theory and symmetry rules.

But... phase one of my plan for world domination is not yet complete. So I must wait before the big reveal.

_____________________________

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"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

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Post #: 121

RE: Is God a Woman? - 10/1/2007 1:26:21 PM

FullCircle

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Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

I'm working on that. No, seriously, I really have something along those lines; I might not be able to prove God doesn't exist... but I *can* prove that the cosmos didn't need a god to pop out of nothing fully formed. Thus, there's no specific need for a god... S/he may exist, but the universe came first. Actually, nothing came first. It gets confusing and complicated after that point, unless you've got a good grasp on set theory and symmetry rules.

But... phase one of my plan for world domination is not yet complete. So I must wait before the big reveal.

I'd watch your back because the pope has assassins. Haven’t you ever seen that film The DiVinci Code? Just watch your back is all I'm saying.

_____________________________

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Post #: 122

RE: Is God a Woman? - 10/1/2007 1:38:10 PM

CuriousLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Atheism is another form of religion CuriousLord unless you can prove beyond any doubt that god doesn’t exist.

Naw, there's quite an exception. I am an instance of this exception.

You see, if you come into the world with a fresh slate, no predisposition but a concern for the truth and such, one would find that it is highly unlikely for God to exist.. that "prophets" were likely mad men. It's the conclusion that there is no evidence- no reason- to believe in God in the same way you currently have no reason to believe that there's a colony of monkeys underground in the moon.

One might call one who considers the possibility of God as being relatively balanced with the possibility of no God or other religious systems as an "agnostic". However, one such as myself has no reason to believe that there is a colony of monkeys underground in the moon. Therefore, I call myself an athiest; while I'm not certain that there's no monkey's, I recognize the strong probablity that there isn't and the utter lack of evidence for there beign one. I further recognize that the idea likely came about due to the zeal of monkey enthausasts hoping for something meaningful in their world.

I would be happy to provide credible cites for this definition of "atheist". I understand that the world is often misunderstood as "people who believe God don't exist". Because, really, who uses it? Religious people who want to disenfranciese other positions, correct? Hence the common misconception of "athiest". (Which I realize I keep typo'ing yet I'm absolutely too lazy to fix.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
Science will get you so far in life but it can’t give you the answers to questions if no one proposes such questions in the first place. The concept of God or a higher being is an idea, the same way that electricity was an idea once upon a time. Scientific facts have to come from some initial idea in the first place. Therefore to exclude the possibility of something unproven means you may be blind to the real answers; only seeking that which you believe to be true.

The concept of electricity was a concept invented to describe observed phenomina. It now serves to describe this phenomina in a scientifically verifable method through the work of not many dozens of men over a relatively short time period.

The concept of God was a concept invented to control/comfort humans or describe observed phenomina. The observed phenominia have been increasily accurately described by other means while the "God" description of it fails in all regards tested. The concept of "God" is constantly modifed to make up for its continuing inability to do anything.

One might define "God" as an existent being of great benevolence who never can/will effect the universe. This would match observations. God is either not real or moot.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
To say God absolutely doesn’t exist follows the same crazy logic as to assume it does exist. There is no proof one way or another at this point in time and no one is yet able to propose a test for God.

Which is why I say it is highly unlikely that a colony of monkeys exist under the surface of the moon. Unlikely to the point that anyone who argues it is almost certainly either misinformed or crazy, should they be unable to provide unknown evidence for, which they are not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
One day there may be a test for God proposed but only if people still have that idea in their heads.

If phenomina occur, we'll note it and attribute it appropriately. That's science- we need not remember fairy tales to understand things we see happening in the world.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
That being said, all religion is unproven and therefore invalid from my point of view but people are allowed to choose things that get them through their day I suppose.

I constantly worry about the collaterial damage that religion causes, particularly to youth who are predisposed towards religious inclinations as well. It forces them to constantly question themselves, since they find their beliefs and reason to be in contradiction. I constantly worry for those not yet afflicted, or even born. So many of them will acquire this mental disease before its extinct.

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 123

RE: Is God a Woman? - 10/1/2007 1:53:38 PM

FullCircle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Space monkeys here there everywhere.

You prove or disprove things based on popular assumptions. The popular assumption is that there may be a god not that space monkeys exist in some underground moon bunker. Fair enough the point you made about electricity but Faraday flew a kite with a key attached because he had an idea of what observed phenomenon could be. Just as people have an idea as to how the universe was created. I’m not saying it’s valid, I’m saying it’s a valid hypothesis until disproven.

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Post #: 124

RE: Is God a Woman? - 10/1/2007 2:03:19 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Thing is, life is full of shit. Science can tell us how deep the shit is, can tell us what the shit is and can provide a raft on which to bypass most of the shit. But only religion can attempt the illusion of making the shit stink much less.

Some things in life are bad
They can really make you mad
Other things just make you swear and curse.
When you're chewing on life's gristle
Don't grumble, give a whistle
And this'll help things turn out for the best...

And...always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the light side of life...

If life seems jolly rotten
There's something you've forgotten
And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing.
When you're feeling in the dumps
Don't be silly chumps
Just purse your lips and whistle - that's the thing.

And...always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the light side of life...

For life is quite absurd
And death's the final word
You must always face the curtain with a bow.
Forget about your sin - give the audience a grin
Enjoy it - it's your last chance anyhow.

So always look on the bright side of death
Just before you draw your terminal breath

Life's a piece of shit
When you look at it
Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true.
You'll see it's all a show
Keep 'em laughing as you go
Just remember that the last laugh is on you.

And always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the right side of life...
(Come on guys, cheer up!)
Always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the bright side of life...
(Worse things happen at sea, you know.)
Always look on the bright side of life...
(I mean - what have you got to lose?)
(You know, you come from nothing - you're going back to nothing.
What have you lost? Nothing!)
Always look on the right side of life...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Always look on the Bright Side Of Life by Eric Idle

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(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 125

RE: Is God a Woman? - 10/1/2007 2:14:25 PM

CuriousLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
You prove or disprove things based on popular assumptions.

Where'd ya get this from?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
The popular assumption is that there may be a god not that space monkeys exist in some underground moon bunker.

How's it a "popular assumption", and nothing more? I've never taken a poll on it. Nor would I care for the results of that poll. Therefore, attributing my thought to popularity is folley, even should my conclusion be popular. (Though, if one makes his conclusions logically, would it not be this one's hope that his conclusion is popular?)

There's no reason to believe it, no evidence. That's why I don't believe in a colony of monkies under the moon.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
Fair enough the point you made about electricity but Faraday flew a kite with a key attached because he had an idea of what observed phenomenon could be.

Yeah, Franklin had an idea about the nature of an already-observed phenomia, and flew a kite to observe it further. (We're not entirely sure if he actually did.. but it's a neat story, either way.) That was a neat test. Something observed, a reasonable idea created, and then tested. I'd have ridiculed him, too, if he said that Lighting was the manifestation of Zues. But he didn't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
Just as people have an idea as to how the universe was created. I’m not saying it’s valid, I’m saying it’s a valid hypothesis until disproven.

I'd disagree. A hypothesis is a result of observations while lacking a better explanation. This isn't the case with "God".

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 126

RE: Is God a Woman? - 10/1/2007 2:18:43 PM

domiguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Space monkeys here there everywhere.

You prove or disprove things based on popular assumptions. The popular assumption is that there may be a god not that space monkeys exist in some underground moon bunker. Fair enough the point you made about electricity but Faraday flew a kite with a key attached because he had an idea of what observed phenomenon could be. Just as people have an idea as to how the universe was created. I’m not saying it’s valid, I’m saying it’s a valid hypothesis until disproven.

It is a rather sad argument to suggest that every idea has to be entertained because it cannot be disproven....First off, the universe is a proven commodity God is not...Don't you have to begin with the proof that God exists?....How about basing the fact that God exists on the writings of the Old Testament....There appears to have been a very active God back in the good ol' days....Now move forward....The conclusion that one would reach is that God has left or died....For he hasn't been seen since meddling in the affairs of us mere mortals....I hope God is okay...Does anyone know where I could send a "Get Well Soon Card?"

Let's say that you found proof that God created the universe but has subsequently died...Whoooopdeedoo!

< Message edited by domiguy -- 10/1/2007 2:19:25 PM >

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Post #: 127

RE: Is God a Woman? - 10/1/2007 2:23:32 PM

mnottertail

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Well, if god is a woman, you can better believe she got some hella tits on her, or there is no concept of heaven that could be devised.

Ron

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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Post #: 128

RE: Is God a Woman? - 10/1/2007 2:26:10 PM

CuriousLord

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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So maybe God and the Devil are twins.. and God's the one who got the big rack?

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Post #: 129

RE: Is God a Woman? - 10/1/2007 2:36:15 PM

FullCircle

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Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
You prove or disprove things based on popular assumptions.

Where'd ya get this from?

You shouldn’t be trying to prove space monkeys exist is my only point. No one is asking if they do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
How's it a "popular assumption", and nothing more? I've never taken a poll on it. Nor would I care for the results of that poll. Therefore, attributing my thought to popularity is folley, even should my conclusion be popular. (Though, if one makes his conclusions logically, would it not be this one's hope that his conclusion is popular?)

Why are we talking about it if it’s not a popular assumption? I think we can say that most religions are formed around the idea of one or many gods. We can also safely say that religion is fairly widespread. Thus it’s a popular assumption.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
I'd disagree. A hypothesis is a result of observations while lacking a better explanation. This isn't the case with "God".

That’s your perspective verses that of someone else. As you’ve already stated some people observed things and attributed it to god in the absence of hard fact. It’s their hypothesis versus your hypothesis.

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Post #: 130

RE: Is God a Woman? - 10/1/2007 2:59:03 PM

FullCircle

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Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
Space monkeys here there everywhere.

You prove or disprove things based on popular assumptions. The popular assumption is that there may be a god not that space monkeys exist in some underground moon bunker. Fair enough the point you made about electricity but Faraday flew a kite with a key attached because he had an idea of what observed phenomenon could be. Just as people have an idea as to how the universe was created. I’m not saying it’s valid, I’m saying it’s a valid hypothesis until disproven.

It is a rather sad argument to suggest that every idea has to be entertained because it cannot be disproven....First off, the universe is a proven commodity God is not...Don't you have to begin with the proof that God exists?....How about basing the fact that God exists on the writings of the Old Testament....There appears to have been a very active God back in the good ol' days....Now move forward....The conclusion that one would reach is that God has left or died....For he hasn't been seen since meddling in the affairs of us mere mortals....I hope God is okay...Does anyone know where I could send a "Get Well Soon Card?"
Let's say that you found proof that God created the universe but has subsequently died...Whoooopdeedoo!

As I said if people want to prove space monkeys exist they can go knock themselves out doing so but no one is going to read their conclusions as it is of no interest to anyone. Not every idea has to be entertained but I don’t rule things out that I can’t disprove just because they aren’t my idea of what the answer is. I’ve already said I think all religions are invalid and don’t therefore need to bring religious views into my mix.

I can understand CuriousLord’s perspective but if it turns out god does exist he won’t be the one to find that out because he hasn’t ever considered it as a possibility, he just flatly refuses. I can’t be that way because when I look at the world around me I see things and I think of many ways they might be explained not just one way. Maybe I don’t have the focus or single mindedness that he does but we each excel in our own ways and have our own ways of solving problems.

If I found proof that God created the universe I wouldn’t have to work another day in my life I could be paid just to talk shit about it. If you don’t think that’s a good end result then you haven’t considered all the possibilities. The chances of me proving god exists are about zero and frankly I don’t care if it exists or not. I’ll be dead in so many years and they’ll be a load of fuck all at the end of it, I know that. A belief in god wouldn’t give me a warm glow because for all I know he probably created me as a sick joke.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 10/1/2007 3:04:12 PM >

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Post #: 131

RE: Is God a Woman? - 10/1/2007 3:05:48 PM

Aswad

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Zero sum games are nothing new, Paradox, even in physics.

Several theories have already been proposed that deal with existence as a state, rather than creation as a process, asserting that the former obviates the need for the latter. And from a physics point of view, among others, it indeed does. In practice, it just shuffles things about, but who cares, as long as things appear self-consistent within the scope of itself?

That said, obviating the need for X neither proves nor disproves the existence of X.
Any argument along those lines would bring to my mind a particular proverb:
"If a tree falls in the forest, and nobody hears it, did it really fall?"

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to DMFParadox)

Post #: 132

RE: Is God a Woman? - 10/1/2007 3:08:21 PM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

From a quick assessment

80% of the contributions here are from guys
80% of the contributions are uninteresting, irrelevant or both

Meanwhile, 80% also happens to be the assessed proportion of most religions which are also uninteresting, irrelevant or both.

We can therefore make a good guess that there is only a 20% chance that God is a Woman.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Post #: 133

RE: Is God a Woman? - 10/1/2007 3:13:15 PM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
People assume that a divine creature, capable of creating the intracies of the universe, would find us to more interesting than we find amoeba.

How can an amoeba hope to understand the divine?

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
You see, if you come into the world with a fresh slate, no predisposition but a concern for the truth and such, one would find that it is highly unlikely for God to exist.. that "prophets" were likely mad men.

An alternative hypothesis is that such a 'fresh slate' is either ignorant or has a spiritual blind spot in his awareness..

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
It's the conclusion that there is no evidence- no reason- to believe in God in the same way you currently have no reason to believe that there's a colony of monkeys underground in the moon.

There is plenty testimonial that the incarnate gods walked on the Earth, interacted with ordinary people and lived among other places on the Moon. There are even exhaustive Greek court proceedings in which the goddess Athena and the god Apollo participated.

Apparently you are not aware either of Hanuman, the King of the Apes. He and his people associated with the gods. Some of the gods lived on the Moon. The Moon has no air. So a colony of monkeys underground in the Moon is not entirely as farfetched as you seem to believe. These facts are sufficient for logic to require that there were such monkeys.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
The concept of God was a concept invented to control/comfort humans or describe observed phenomena.

Quite. And what were the observed phenomena? Those were the incarnate gods. Theology (that is Greek for 'science/knowledge of the gods') was the science that was dedicated to studying those flesh and blood beings.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
Which is why I say it is highly unlikely that a colony of monkeys exist under the surface of the moon. Unlikely to the point that anyone who argues it is almost certainly either misinformed or crazy, should they be unable to provide unknown evidence for, which they are not.

I bet that you have never heard of the Dutch word boerenkool and that you will therefore argue that such an unknown thing does not exist. And as I have argued before, your argument that moon monkeys are highly unlikely to the contrary moon monkeys are extremely likely. So who is misinformed or crazy, or rather ignorant and closed minded?

I have a shocking idea: can it possibly be that you do not know everything, cannot comprehend everything and perhaps have a spiritual blind spot (i.e. a cognitive disability)?

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
If phenomena occur, we'll note it and attribute it appropriately. That's science- we need not remember fairy tales to understand things we see happening in the world.

Yes, that is science: the study of causally related phenomena. The subject of spirituality is another class of phenomena entirely: the study of non-causally related phenomena. Science by its very nature is not equipped to study these non-causally related phenomena - it does not even recognize them.

< Message edited by Rule -- 10/1/2007 3:22:03 PM >

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Post #: 134

RE: Is God a Woman? - 10/1/2007 3:26:22 PM

SirNico

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why do we, as humans, male or female, decide that we have so much power that we can assign human qualities, including masculine or feminine orientation to a Diety? if we truly believe in 'God', are we willing to take the risk that God has emotions and that when we go before God, he will say ' i'm a little pissed off today, go to hell'.

i would think something of a Deity status would be beyond emotions, frightened to think otherwise.

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Post #: 135

RE: Is God a Woman? - 10/1/2007 4:08:08 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

Ehyeh asher ehyeh

ergo - God is female for I am God.
At least - to me.

Peace
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Post #: 136

RE: Is God a Woman? - 10/1/2007 4:17:50 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirNico

i would think something of a Deity status would be beyond emotions, frightened to think otherwise.

Really? I'm not so sure. To me, there is something scarier about the notion of lack of emotions than presence of the "wrong" ones, having been drugged to that point once myself. Encountering a god/dess of apathy would be far scarier to me than one that is inclined to be emotionally driven, even a primal one. But, oh, well...

It gives a good occasion for some lighthearted views on how that could go...

"This is my god. The god that sent me back. The god I serve in this world and yours.
The god of flesh, hunger and desire. My god, Leviathan, lord of the Labyrinth."

- Skinless Julia, Hellraiser 2: Hellbound.

"And to think ... I hesitated."
- Dr. Channard, Hellraiser 2: Hellbound

Now, there is a man who has found his god; albeit not my deity of choice.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

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Post #: 137

RE: Is God a Woman? - 10/1/2007 4:38:19 PM

Aneirin

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The God that exists for those that believe, I understand as being both female and male, neither one is more powerful or greater than the other. Positive and negative aspects, perhaps yin and yang even but in balance, unison.

The kingdom of heaven and there the place where God resides, I believe to be within people.

These two thoughts, I feel may go someway to understanding the male/female characteristics every human has.

As to why mankind refers to God as 'He', well that is just a remnant of societies past arrogance in assuming a higher order is a male gender.

You refer to some of mankinds activities,and does God partake,Well as I see it,if it is natural,then why not?It comes natural to us and I believe we were supposed to be made in God's image.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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Post #: 138

RE: Is God a Woman? - 10/1/2007 4:44:45 PM

BlackKnight

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Here, Here! Just what I was going to say when I logged into this thread, Aneirin, kinda. God is both, God is all, God is neither, God is the very fabric of the universe.

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Life of Reason, Reason in Common Sense, Scribner's, 1905, page 284"
George Santayana

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get me!

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Post #: 139

RE: Is God a Woman? - 10/1/2007 5:24:51 PM

CuriousLord

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
You prove or disprove things based on popular assumptions.

Where'd ya get this from?

You shouldn’t be trying to prove space monkeys exist is my only point. No one is asking if they do.

I'm just going to assume this is a joke 'n such.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
How's it a "popular assumption", and nothing more? I've never taken a poll on it. Nor would I care for the results of that poll. Therefore, attributing my thought to popularity is folley, even should my conclusion be popular. (Though, if one makes his conclusions logically, would it not be this one's hope that his conclusion is popular?)

Why are we talking about it if it’s not a popular assumption?

Because it was an anology to draw the point about extraneous assumptions being silly..?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
I think we can say that most religions are formed around the idea of one or many gods. We can also safely say that religion is fairly widespread. Thus it’s a popular assumption.

Just because it's a popular assumption doesn't mean I'm bashing it for being a popular assumption..

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
I'd disagree. A hypothesis is a result of observations while lacking a better explanation. This isn't the case with "God".

That’s your perspective verses that of someone else. As you’ve already stated some people observed things and attributed it to god in the absence of hard fact.

Yeah, but you're pulling that out of context. That happened in the past- such as lighting being attributed to Zues. People today don't have this luxury as we have a pretty firm understanding of lighting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
It’s their hypothesis versus your hypothesis.

A hypothesis exists as a possible explanation to be abandoned when another adequately describes a phenomina. So, no, God fails even to meet the meager requirements of educated conjecture.

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 140

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