Fucking romance

Fucking romance (Full Version)

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AAkasha -> Fucking romance (10/3/2007 10:32:57 AM)
Is it possible to have a fairly deep, meaningful, passionate connection with someone and not have romance come along and fuck it up? I'm in a committed relationship but it's moving toward poly. I have no interest in a romantic relationship with a new partner, but am fine with it being close, intimate and passionate. I've headed down this path a few times in the last several years (I had an open relationship another time in my life), and every single time it has crashed and burned because of romance. The submissive saying at the start of the relationship, "I understand the limitations of this relationship," and then fast forward a few weeks or months, him saying, "I think I'm falling in love with you. Is there a chance we can ever be together?" Here's the problem. I don't think these men are really falling in love with me (it's not mutual, it's not soul mate kind of chemistry, and sometimes it's so premature for them to say that, I don't even know where it comes from), it's just that the nature of an intense, intimate power exchange relationship FEELS like love, and they WANT to be in love, and all of a sudden, I become the embodiement of what they want as their life partner. Have other people experienced this? Do you cut it off at that point (I have done that in the past, I don't want to hurt people, and the feelings are not mutual, and I have lost some great partners as a result) - is the trick to find someone already in a deeply commited romantic relationship with another person? The men that have said "I am falling in love with you" are single; I shudder to think what on earth would happen if I destroyed a freaking marriage because a man felt like he was falling in love with me. That's why I avoid married men, even though I am married. And this is not an ego trip; I think ALL kinky people must go through this, because as I said, there's nothing more intimate than a power exchange, and when it's good, it's consuming. When I have man thinking about me all the time, and I am paying extremely close attention to him - emotionally taking care of him, having him in vulnerable places he has never been before - and being someone he shares darkest fantasies with - of COURSE there are going to be powerful feelings of connection that feel like love. So do you cut them loose at that point, or do you risk breaking their heart by continuing hoping they will level off and snap out of it, or are they ultimately going to just fall in "love" more? How do you pick partners that you know won't want more from you? Akasha

Celeste43 -> RE: Fucking romance (10/3/2007 10:52:54 AM)
Perhaps you're looking in the wrong areas. People naturally are drawn to totally fulfilling relationships including romance. If the only woman these mean are with is you, then it is natural that they do fall in love with you. Try a man who loves his wife but is not sexually that compatible with her. Possibly one in a sub/sub marriage where they make each other happy by doing things for each other but both need topping and get that in other relationships. Such a man will not be totally available to serve at a moment's notice, but the trade off is that he also won't be in need of you fulfilling his total emotional needs.

toservez -> RE: Fucking romance (10/3/2007 11:09:30 AM)
Things are always possible and there are people everywhere both in the “normal” world and this world that romantic love has little if nothing at all to do with their relationships. I am though just not sure when throwing in passion and intimate as requirements and long term with devotion on a high level that might be asking too much. My first owners and I were in a relationship you describe but from the outset we all knew it had an expiration date based on what we all wanted out of our lives so it worked incredibly. To this day still I am very close with them and care for them a great deal. I also had an intense, passionate and very intimate relationship with someone when I got out of my former relationship and was not ready to be owned yet. But both me and her were not looking for our one so we both kept the romance/obligation from it. I think if people are looking for passionate sex or power exchange scenes then I can see it to be possible. I think if a person is expecting another to be totally devoted to them on an open time frame but not feel the sense of obligation from the other that romantic love in our society tends to lump together is not very realistic. Can you find people to have a relationship to where romantic love is not required, yes. Throw in passionate and intimate as requirements and wanting devotion on a long term basis though sounds like wanting all the rewards and not the obligations.

FyreAngel -> RE: Fucking romance (10/3/2007 11:15:49 AM)
I'll start this with saying - i have no experience so by my standards, i havent a clue. Yet, i've some ideas. Any chance finding men that are already emotionally fullfilled? They dont have to be in a marriage or in a relationship, just emotionally fullfilled. This will sound a bit stereotypical... but if you take a nerd and pair him up with the most popular girl in school......... chances are he'll fall head over heels. Take the football team captian and he wont be as impressed with the popular girl. Find some one whose been around the block - had a few mistresses... ect You can always just continue along with them, maintaining your position and an expectation that they respect how you feel. It isnt needed to break off with them simply because they're inlove. Eventuallty they will level off or not.

pinkme2 -> RE: Fucking romance (10/3/2007 11:19:22 AM)
A good friend and I play at times, and had our first play experiences together. I'd say it was passionate, fun and exciting but there's no obligation or "in love" there. I think he's awesome, but we know we are not meant for each other. I think you can have this with certain people, but at the same time they need to be actively searching for their "one", the person they can have that with.

AAkasha -> RE: Fucking romance (10/3/2007 11:59:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 Perhaps you're looking in the wrong areas. People naturally are drawn to totally fulfilling relationships including romance. If the only woman these mean are with is you, then it is natural that they do fall in love with you. Try a man who loves his wife but is not sexually that compatible with her. Possibly one in a sub/sub marriage where they make each other happy by doing things for each other but both need topping and get that in other relationships. Such a man will not be totally available to serve at a moment's notice, but the trade off is that he also won't be in need of you fulfilling his total emotional needs. Good advice. I guess my worry is that if the same thing happens (a man develops feelings) I could potentially really harm a third party and family - and there's no way to undo that. Maybe it's different for submissive men, too - I mean so many have thought about it SO long, so when they finally get a good taste of it, it overwhelms them, and completely turns their sensibilities upside down. Still, I have had it happened with "experienced" submissive men, too. My follow up question to anyone who is reading: When you are in a situation that you feel like the "casual" partner is getting too romantically attached, but all other elements of the relationship are great, do you still cut it off to avoid his feelings getting stronger? How do you evaluate that risk? I have never continued in that situation because I feel at that point the problems could become great. But I wonder if sometimes it's just infatuation (with the newness of the relationship) and it will fade eventually. I wonder if subs go through "puppy love" when they get their first taste of good power exchange, being cared for, being used (in the way they want), and they grow out of it? Akasha

CreativeDominant -> RE: Fucking romance (10/3/2007 12:01:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Is it possible to have a fairly deep, meaningful, passionate connection with someone and not have romance come along and fuck it up? It is possible...difficult in my experience, but possible. quote: I'm in a committed relationship but it's moving toward poly. I have no interest in a romantic relationship with a new partner, but am fine with it being close, intimate and passionate. I've headed down this path a few times in the last several years (I had an open relationship another time in my life), and every single time it has crashed and burned because of romance. The submissive saying at the start of the relationship, "I understand the limitations of this relationship," and then fast forward a few weeks or months, him saying, "I think I'm falling in love with you. Is there a chance we can ever be together?" Here's the problem. I don't think these men are really falling in love with me (it's not mutual, it's not soul mate kind of chemistry, and sometimes it's so premature for them to say that, I don't even know where it comes from), it's just that the nature of an intense, intimate power exchange relationship FEELS like love, and they WANT to be in love, and all of a sudden, I become the embodiement of what they want as their life partner. Given the difficulty of defining what love is...look how many poets and scientists have tried and the best they have been able to do is capture the flowery and the biological (and even those are often similar to lust and other strong feelings)...I can see where these partners could consider their feelings to be love, even if it is not. And you know that love does not have to be mutual for it to be experienced...unrequited love is the first phrase that pops into my head. quote: Have other people experienced this? Do you cut it off at that point (I have done that in the past, I don't want to hurt people, and the feelings are not mutual, and I have lost some great partners as a result) - is the trick to find someone already in a deeply commited romantic relationship with another person? The men that have said "I am falling in love with you" are single; I shudder to think what on earth would happen if I destroyed a freaking marriage because a man felt like he was falling in love with me. That's why I avoid married men, even though I am married. And this is not an ego trip; I think ALL kinky people must go through this, because as I said, there's nothing more intimate than a power exchange, and when it's good, it's consuming. When I have man thinking about me all the time, and I am paying extremely close attention to him - emotionally taking care of him, having him in vulnerable places he has never been before - and being someone he shares darkest fantasies with - of COURSE there are going to be powerful feelings of connection that feel like love. So do you cut them loose at that point, or do you risk breaking their heart by continuing hoping they will level off and snap out of it, or are they ultimately going to just fall in "love" more? To cut them off at that point seems to be, in essence, a case of using them until they are no longer worth something to you. What has made them worthless? The fact that their inner being...their emotional self...defied you and their own mental self... knowledge of what you don't want...and fell for you anyway. Am I making sense to you when I say that doing such a thing would qualify as carelessly cruel use of another? You can do all you can to try and avoid these situations by doing things such as choosing a partner who IS involved emotionally elsewhere and being willing to give up some of that all-consuming need they have for you. But that still does not guarantee anything. As I said, it is possible to be involved with someone in a deep D/s and BDSM relationship with someone and avoid having them go all romantic but that was done by choosing a partner who was married and had her husband's permission...and even then, it was difficult and we both recognized it. Because of that deep connection. And so, we cut some of those connections and eased up on what we expected of each other. But that is when you have some of the consequences set in...because of the lessening of the connection, there was not that...as you describe...consuming need for each other in a D/s BDSM fashion. Through a lot of talk and a deep attraction to each other, we made it through for our time. Emotionally taking care of each other was one of the first things we had to lessen to diminish romantic feelings that were growing but to say that it did not affect the D/s relationship would be a lie. quote: How do you pick partners that you know won't want more from you? Akasha I have tried to give you my outlook above and you have had a few other good answers. The most brutal thing I can say is this...most likely, if you do not want partners that want more, you may either have to become more discerning and realize that even if you do, it will still be a roll of the dice AND/OR you may have to find a way not to draw them in so emotionally, despite the attraction of having them thinking about you only and being consumed by you only.

iammachine -> RE: Fucking romance (10/3/2007 2:37:05 PM)
quote: it's just that the nature of an intense, intimate power exchange relationship FEELS like love, and they WANT to be in love, and all of a sudden, I become the embodiement of what they want as their life partner. Who's to say that it isn't love? Love is a feeling, it's not something that you can quantify. If they feel that they love you, what's the harm in it if they understand the boundaries of the relationship? You can limit actions, you can set boundaries that define a relationship, but you can't control feelings. What can be controlled is what a person does about those feelings. For example, I have a friend that I am very close to. We refer to eachother as a "non couple", because though our relationship inspires many of the same feelings as a romantic exchange, I have set a limit at the notion of a romantic commitment. We both understand the boundaries of the relationship, and it is what it is. Despite how he may feel about me, he doesn't expect that I should become involved in any way beyond boundaries that have been set. We care about eachother a lot, and we care enough to be honest about what we may feel, and honest about what we will and will not do or commit to. It works for us, at least. YMMV. As for someone wanting to fall in love and suddenly a desire for a connection gives them the perception that you are the embodiment of everything they have ever wanted.... that's often loneliness talking. Lots of people really want to feel a romantic connection, they want a romantic relationship. Lots of people are in love with love, as opposed to people. I call this the lost puppy effect. I can respect how someone feels, if they can respect that I may or may not feel the same, and respect what I want (or don't) from a relationship. If they can be content with that, that's dandy. They can feel however they want as long as it doesn't hinder our current relationship. If how I feel, want or not doesn't jive with them, they are free to move on, or dial things back to a point where they can manage their emotions.

laurell3 -> RE: Fucking romance (10/3/2007 4:35:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Here's the problem. I don't think these men are really falling in love with me (it's not mutual, it's not soul mate kind of chemistry, and sometimes it's so premature for them to say that, I don't even know where it comes from), it's just that the nature of an intense, intimate power exchange relationship FEELS like love, and they WANT to be in love, and all of a sudden, I become the embodiement of what they want as their life partner. Only you can decide what type of relationship you are interested in. However when I was new to the lifestyle as a sub I would find myself developing attachment/love type feelings prematurely on occasion. I think it may be because you are placed in a position of complete trust and obviously if service is your goal, one is going to have feelings for the person that they are serving. It would be unrealistic in my opinion to think that one could require submission and not expect attachment. Can you be upfront and honest about your situation and talk about it when it comes up? Of course. l

Politesub53 -> RE: Fucking romance (10/3/2007 4:51:46 PM)
This is different to just finding a platonic friend, someone you work with each day or whatever. Once we embark on a D/s or BDSM type relationship, it becomes sexual or at least sensual. There is a degree of trust that starts to build and a bond that starts to form. Often we say, i am just looking for a close friend and nothing to deep, yet that gets swept up in the occasion. You are correct to say that a new submissive may get overtaken by the whole event, yet i see that as a normal outcome. Emotionally this is addicitve and the more we see a cetain someone, the closer the bond becomes. Just as sometimes happens in the vanilla life, one partner will fall in love quicker than the other, and hence the problem.

feastie -> RE: Fucking romance (10/3/2007 5:10:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Is it possible to have a fairly deep, meaningful, passionate connection with someone and not have romance come along and fuck it up? I'm in a committed relationship but it's moving toward poly. I have no interest in a romantic relationship with a new partner, but am fine with it being close, intimate and passionate. I've headed down this path a few times in the last several years (I had an open relationship another time in my life), and every single time it has crashed and burned because of romance. The submissive saying at the start of the relationship, "I understand the limitations of this relationship," and then fast forward a few weeks or months, him saying, "I think I'm falling in love with you. Is there a chance we can ever be together?" Here's the problem. I don't think these men are really falling in love with me (it's not mutual, it's not soul mate kind of chemistry, and sometimes it's so premature for them to say that, I don't even know where it comes from), it's just that the nature of an intense, intimate power exchange relationship FEELS like love, and they WANT to be in love, and all of a sudden, I become the embodiement of what they want as their life partner. Have other people experienced this? Do you cut it off at that point (I have done that in the past, I don't want to hurt people, and the feelings are not mutual, and I have lost some great partners as a result) - is the trick to find someone already in a deeply commited romantic relationship with another person? The men that have said "I am falling in love with you" are single; I shudder to think what on earth would happen if I destroyed a freaking marriage because a man felt like he was falling in love with me. That's why I avoid married men, even though I am married. And this is not an ego trip; I think ALL kinky people must go through this, because as I said, there's nothing more intimate than a power exchange, and when it's good, it's consuming. When I have man thinking about me all the time, and I am paying extremely close attention to him - emotionally taking care of him, having him in vulnerable places he has never been before - and being someone he shares darkest fantasies with - of COURSE there are going to be powerful feelings of connection that feel like love. So do you cut them loose at that point, or do you risk breaking their heart by continuing hoping they will level off and snap out of it, or are they ultimately going to just fall in "love" more? How do you pick partners that you know won't want more from you? Akasha I think the problem is that there are far more people for whom romance is a part of BDSM than there are those for whom it's not.

PsyVamp -> RE: Fucking romance (10/3/2007 5:19:38 PM)
I know its possible to have a deep relationship without romantic love. Sometimes you need to just get past the initial stage of (sometimes manic) infatuation first. This is the stage where people tend to think they are more attached to you or they feel more than they do. Considering the difficulties most seem to have finding compatible personalities, it is no wonder they get so infatuated. Sometimes, you can get past these out of proportion ideas and feelings and have a perfectly wonderful relationship. I discourage the word "love" in any context in the beginning of my relationships while trying to instill a sense of security. This works more often then not and helps the people get past the initial warped perspective. Psy... who believes that one can feel deeply without feeling romantic love.

xoxi -> RE: Fucking romance (10/3/2007 5:20:11 PM)
Feel free to take this advice with a grain of salt but perhaps you should be a bit less intimate? Don't let it get to a point where he is always thinking about you or whatnot...limit the interaction and the level of attachment. It will be less 'intense' yes but also will be less heartbreaking in the end. I would definitely recommend that you stay away from single guys...and from people in unhappy relationships as well. They are both likely to get attached because they found someone who fulfills them and want to hold onto you forever and ever. Your best bet would be the poly or swinger crowds...the ones who are totally happy with their partner but are interested in new people as well.

gypsygrl -> RE: Fucking romance (10/3/2007 5:22:28 PM)
quote: I have no interest in a romantic relationship with a new partner, but am fine with it being close, intimate and passionate. I guess I don't understand the difference between "romantic" and "close, intimate and passionate." It may be because I don't really do romance so I'm wondering what more can anyone one want other than "close, intimate and passionate" and how romance could beat that. I don't feel romantically involved with my Master but don't have that need and never really have. I do feel we have a "close, intimate, and passionate" relationship but if he were to start giving me flowers and perfume or wanting to go on a date, I think I'd have a major crisis. The way I see it, because its the way he explained it to me at the beginning, is his wife is the love of his life. I was good with that because I know I really suck when it comes to being the love of someone's life. Its pretty much the reason I decided to give poly a try. Once I got involved with a single guy and ended up wishing he had a girlfriend or something just so I could be a secondary. I've also been involved with marrieds and didn't have any problem with the fact that they were married...just that they were cheating and I was enabling it. After a bit, I couldn't stand myself so had to change. So, assuming there's a guy equivalent to me, its possible.

RRafe -> RE: Fucking romance (10/3/2007 5:26:17 PM)
Infatuation-is not love.

cloudboy -> RE: Fucking romance (10/3/2007 5:27:24 PM)
The problem with being married and seeking a secondary partner is how demeaning and dead-ended it can be for the secondary. For instance, I question whether one can even be married-poly, because how can you truly be poly with the marital trump card always in play? In alternative to poly, some couple's have a married with permission model --- which is essentially a system allowing for structured, bounded, affairs. I think this can burn strong for a short period of time --- but when a relationship can't ever grow or expand --- I think you have to wonder what will keep it going. Next, what will you tell your secondary about your husband? What will you tell your husband about your secondary? Will your husband be granted any equitable privileges, or will you be using the predominate male or TOP model of poly, which is I get more, you get me? Where will you and your secondary meet and operate? Aside from the practicalities, your secondary partner and you will each have to engage in rather strong emotional managment. In my own experience, this has been tricky and wearing. I have met my partner's husband, but I have never met her children. The basic boundary is that I will never really be a part of her real life. I exist back stage only. The husband, a really great guy, prefers basically to keep me in the shadows --- because our extra-marital connection is inherently threatening. The same thing goes with my wife, my extra-marital connection is threatening to her. Backwards poly from marriage is just really tricky. It falls well short of my own personal ideals. Sometimes you feel you are letting everyone down, and sometimes you feel even more alone with two partners involved. (Strange but true.) In terms of morality, I think its bad to start an involvement with someone when you cannot back that up with some kind of committment. I also think its an emotional lie to regard "romance" or "love" as out of bounds. Love is elastic, and I think you have to be elastic with it. Cutting someone off because they've grown attached to you is COLD, as is expecting them to remain emotionally bounded or retarded. In a married -- secondary partner system, the key is simply knowing that love does not incorporate possession or primary status. Good luck.

sadisticmaster03 -> RE: Fucking romance (10/3/2007 5:30:56 PM)
You are right - the words " I love you" are very powerful weather you are saying them or the DOM is saying them. I put it in the catagory of fucking with your mind. I love to make my submissive's say it. I love to hear them saying it even though I know they dont mean it, but I have noticed if they say it over and over as a protocol, they start to believe it. Strange but ture.

laurell3 -> RE: Fucking romance (10/3/2007 5:32:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sadisticmaster03 You are right - the words " I love you" are very powerful weather you are saying them or the DOM is saying them. I put it in the catagory of fucking with your mind. I love to make my submissive's say it. I love to hear them saying it even though I know they dont mean it, but I have noticed if they say it over and over as a protocol, they start to believe it. Strange but ture. [:'(]

cloudboy -> RE: Fucking romance (10/3/2007 5:35:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gypsygrl I have no interest in a romantic relationship with a new partner, but am fine with it being close, intimate and passionate. ------------------------------------------- I guess I don't understand the difference between "romantic" and "close, intimate and passionate." Its a distinction without emotional or soulful difference. The difference in Aakasha's situation is that "close, intimate and passionate" also includes no future. (That's how I read it.) Basically "close, intimate and passionate" without a future tends more toward using than loving. In substance, its an affair model. I guess the watch word for it is "fun." In general, guys roll with this better than women, so Aakasha should have a high chance for success in achieving her goals. The breaking up part won't be fun, tho.

RRafe -> RE: Fucking romance (10/3/2007 5:45:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sadisticmaster03 You are right - the words " I love you" are very powerful weather you are saying them or the DOM is saying them. I put it in the catagory of fucking with your mind. I love to make my submissive's say it. I love to hear them saying it even though I know they dont mean it, but I have noticed if they say it over and over as a protocol, they start to believe it. Strange but ture. Thing with mindfucks? Sometimes the giver becomes the reciever..[:D]

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