RE: I have the Right!!! (Full Version)

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Bobkgin -> RE: I have the Right!!! (10/5/2007 2:13:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
  • to have this slave's needs met by Master...for as long as He will have her around
  • to do what Master would, on His behalf, should He be physically unable to
  • to beg nicely

this slave does NOT have the right to:
  • privacy
  • die first
  • call the shots







re the green font-i giggled wondering how the hell he gonna punish her if she does that one-lol


When it happened to me punishment was the last thing on my mind.



Bob......lighten up buttercup[sm=banghead.gif]


It's funny until it happens.

You might consider that I am not the only one to have lost a loved one.

Tred softly.



Owner4SexSlave -> RE: I have the Right!!! (10/5/2007 2:19:05 PM)

Here's something I've always done, you can ask me for permission to do something.  I can either say yes/no to it.   Now is this a right, freedom, liberty or previlage I have given the slave?  Who really cares what the label is.

If I tell a slave, she has my permission to use the bathroom without asking for my permission, again regardless of what you call it.  She has freedom to do this according to my rules.    Now if I tell a slave, she must ask for my permission to use the bathroom and she goes ahead and uses it anyways.  OK, she just broke my rule.  Now, If I go to punish her for this offense and she refuses the punishment, she's in violation of another rule.   Now, if I give her the hands on treatment, punish her and all is fine afterwards.  OK.   If however, I go to give her the hands on treatment, and she threatens to call the police on me and reasserts her resistence.  Well, Ummmm.. time for a sit down talk, because something needs to get worked out, or she needs to be gone.

Mind you a M/s relationship is not supposed to function in this way, where a slave is threatening to call the police.  However, I think it would make any sane master think twice about WTF is going on.   I'm using all this as a theoretical example and what could happen.

Face it, there are M/s relationships where the Master is too abusive for the slave to deal with.  While it's nice and warm and fuzzy for people in more healthy working M/s relationships to think Masters rules are the ultimate authority, the reality is that they are not.  However, if the Masters rules are broken to this extent.  Generally the slave is released.   I suppose one could simply attempt to beat their slave down physically if they threaten to call the police, or if their slave attempted to excercise her actual legal rights,  however this would be an illegal activitiy, well frankly could cost the Master his own Freedoms under the Law of the land.   As somebody pointed out a Judge can take certain rights or freedoms away.   The question is here, how much is one willing to risk to maintain M/s dynamics and rules? 

When is it appropriate and sane time to acknowledge a slave as having rights under the law? 



SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: I have the Right!!! (10/5/2007 2:21:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin


It's funny until it happens.

You might consider that I am not the only one to have lost a loved one.

Tred softly.



id bet almost everyone on here has lost a loved one .....me included

id bet most of them saw i was jokin........in fact id bet all of them did

ill guarantee your grief at the loss of a loved one is no greater than mine is.......and if you dont find a sense of humor and the ability to move on, youre gonna be miserable for the rest of your life......

and id imagine if your dearly departed slave was half the woman you imply she was, she would be very sad to see you acting so pityful and all at something humorous....

dang, speaking of rights, a lil late, but ill exercise one now.....the right to remain silent.....maybe you should try that one some day

[sm=banghead.gif]

ps....its TREAD softly....and something about carryin a big stick i think[:D]



Bobkgin -> RE: I have the Right!!! (10/5/2007 2:27:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

When is it appropriate and sane time to acknowledge a slave as having rights under the law? 


Before the relationship begins, and any time she asserts them.

The law recognizes her right to assert her rights whenever she wishes. If she says "stop" during sex, persisting is rape.



Bobkgin -> RE: I have the Right!!! (10/5/2007 2:32:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin


It's funny until it happens.

You might consider that I am not the only one to have lost a loved one.

Tred softly.



id bet almost everyone on here has lost a loved one .....me included

id bet most of them saw i was jokin........in fact id bet all of them did

ill guarantee your grief at the loss of a loved one is no greater than mine is.......and if you dont find a sense of humor and the ability to move on, youre gonna be miserable for the rest of your life......

and id imagine if your dearly departed slave was half the woman you imply she was, she would be very sad to see you acting so pityful and all at something humorous....

dang, speaking of rights, a lil late, but ill exercise one now.....the right to remain silent.....maybe you should try that one some day

[sm=banghead.gif]

ps....its TREAD softly....and something about carryin a big stick i think[:D]


Typos happen.

As for the rest ... [8|]



Owner4SexSlave -> RE: I have the Right!!! (10/5/2007 2:35:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne
re the green font-i giggled wondering how the hell he gonna punish her if she does that one-lol


Valyraen has threatened to raise me from the dead and beat me into a pile of goo if I am so disobedient as to die. [:D]


I'm Laughing my ass of now, Thank you. 

I've made similar non-serious threats, such as
  • Caging them and sending them to slave labor camp in china.
  • Poke out their eyes and skull fuck them.
  • Cut off the hair on their head and use them as a Chia pet.
  • Take them back to the store for an exchange or refund.
  • Pawn them off onto Quito the killer pimp for bottle of cheap booze.



BitaTruble -> RE: I have the Right!!! (10/5/2007 2:42:17 PM)

~FR~

If I die first, which will be very disobediant of me, Himself is releasing me from my collar. [:(] I do have a standard order for after-life ... I'm not allowed to spook until spooken to. The way I figure it though, if I'm dead and that equals release, I can spook to my hearts content since Himself will no longer have authority over me.  [sm=goodnight.gif]

Celeste - who's favorite holiday is just around the corner [8D]



XaviersXian -> RE: I have the right!! (10/5/2007 2:42:40 PM)

greetings to all,

xian feels that, in her own relationship, she has no "rights", only needs.  Her Master fulfills what He sees as her needs: food, shelter, time outdoors, keeping her mentally (and physically) safe (no broken bones or situations that could negatively affect her health) .... the rest is up to Him, including (if she ever asked) granting her release from the relationship.

she wishes all well,

xian - Property of Xavier, House of Logos. 



AquaticSub -> RE: I have the Right!!! (10/5/2007 2:53:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne
re the green font-i giggled wondering how the hell he gonna punish her if she does that one-lol


Valyraen has threatened to raise me from the dead and beat me into a pile of goo if I am so disobedient as to die. [:D]


I'm Laughing my ass of now, Thank you. 

I've made similar non-serious threats, such as
  • Caging them and sending them to slave labor camp in china.
  • Poke out their eyes and skull fuck them.
  • Cut off the hair on their head and use them as a Chia pet.
  • Take them back to the store for an exchange or refund.
  • Pawn them off onto Quito the killer pimp for bottle of cheap booze.





*giggles* Can't say Valyraen has ever made those threats. But one of his exes gave him a copy of the Necronomicon so, assuming he can say the words correctly, he might be able to pull his threat off.



HisCompletely -> RE: I have the Right!!! (10/5/2007 2:57:41 PM)

Is there a handbook to this?  This is as usual and i always repeat myself, the decision between the two involved.



TreasureKY -> RE: I have the Right!!! (10/5/2007 2:59:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

I've always thought of the "warranty" as the trust necessary to make the relationship work.


I don't confuse trust with a guarantee, and consider that to be a dangerous practice.

Perhaps it is best explained by an example...

I have the right to speak my mind if I disagree with a decision that FirmhandKY makes.  This is not something that I have verbalized nor is it a right that we've either formally or informally discussed and agreed upon.  It is, however, something I feel is my right (my just claim) as an intelligent human being and it is the way I am.  FirmhandKY knows this about me and has (apparently) accepted it. 

Don't get me wrong; he doesn't generally make decisions that I disagree with and I've certainly enough wherewithal to make a respectable determination about when not to press an issue.  I'm not the argumentative type and I like sitting down, thank you very much.  [;)]   This all relates to my previous comments about rights being tied to obligations.

But anyway... FirmhandKY also knows that he has the authority to curtail this right by either revoking or limiting it.  He has that authority because of my trust in him, but that trust does not bind him to guarantee me this right.  And his exercising his authority is not going to damage my trust in him.

Some might call this right a privilege.  I say that is semantical.  Look up privilege in the dictionary and you'll find the word "right" used in it's definition several times.  To me, something becomes a privilege when it exceeds expectations or goes beyond the ordinary.

Of course, what is considered ordinary and what is considered exceeding expectations is a personal preference and your mileage may vary.  For me, it's not guaranteed and it's not my rightful claim... but his love and respect are my privilege.  [:)]





amelliagrace -> RE: I have the Right!!! (10/5/2007 3:25:50 PM)

Fast reply:

This thread is an extremely interesting read.  I appreciate reading everyone's thoughts on the subject.

Speaking for myself only:
I have the right to...
1.  Know in reasonable detail the code by which a prospective Master lives his life, AND
2.  after becoming his, to be dealt with in accordance with that code.  (IOW, don't tell me that you consider pedophilla to be wrong, and then ask me to look the other way while you commit it, or to participate.  Don't say you don't believe poly relationships are against your belief and practice, and then decided to bring 2 other submissives into the day to day mix.)
3.  I have the right to run like hell if ordered to do anything which places me in danger of loss of life, serious physical harm, that violates the code mentioned in #1.
 
-grace



Owner4SexSlave -> RE: I have the right!! (10/5/2007 3:28:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: XaviersXian

greetings to all,

xian feels that, in her own relationship, she has no "rights", only needs.  Her Master fulfills what He sees as her needs: food, shelter, time outdoors, keeping her mentally (and physically) safe (no broken bones or situations that could negatively affect her health) .... the rest is up to Him, including (if she ever asked) granting her release from the relationship.

she wishes all well,

xian - Property of Xavier, House of Logos. 


This one brings great honour to the "House of Logos" with her words.  I find here the logic in needs vs. rights, when applied to TPE relationships.  Where a Master will take care of the basic needs of a slave.  Where the slave freely surrenders her choice to excerise her rights and freedoms.

I realize that many do not care for the ways of the Gorean lifestyle.  However, I have found that there is a set code of conduct and a manner of general honor and discipline that is established in the Gorean community.  Where a slave should not be concerned nor worried about needs being met by thier Master/owner. 

For TPE relationships, perhaps this is best model.  That a save has the right for their needs to be taken care of, that everything else is at the descretion of their Master.   Again, I still stress that like minded people enter into a M/s relationship.  That this should resolve many issues ahead of time. 

For non TPE relationships, this is and always will be a bit of a game of negoation going on.   If a Master/Dom desires a higher level of power/control over a submissve then she is willing to give, this is a source of conflict.

Everybody is not into having TPE or high levels of power exchanged.   Rights, freedoms, rules and everything under the sun varies from one relationship to another.   If two people can not agree upon a matter, then the laws that govern must should be applied.

The rights, freedoms, rules and liberties and power exchanged between two people is a personal relationship matter between two people.   It is nearly impossiable for anybody outside of that relationship to say otherwise.   However, it is apparent that as human beings we should have our most basic needs met inorder to function and survive.   That perhaps we could view or label needs as rights, however these are essentially a requirement.   At the very least, it would be safe to make the statement...

A slave has the Right to have their human needs, not wants, met.   This is the core of a TPE M/s relationship.  

There is something called Maslow pyramid.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs  there are also other models such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_human_needs

Perhaps, in terms of a slaves most basic rights are to understand needs.  Things such as Medical conditions should be taken into consideration as well.  I would say without question a slave has the "Right" to have their Fundamental or Basic needs met.

I would also go further that a submissive that does not want a full TPE relationship, has the right to not be treated as a TPE slave, that they have the right to not only have their Needs met, but the right to want to have various WANTS.  Something besides needs.

If at anytime, either a TPE Slave or Non TPE Submissive.. seeks to excercise the legal rights they freely gave up, they legally have the right to do as such.





HisCompletely -> RE: I have the right!! (10/5/2007 3:30:03 PM)

I know Maslow, so staying out of this one.



Bobkgin -> RE: I have the Right!!! (10/5/2007 3:30:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

I've always thought of the "warranty" as the trust necessary to make the relationship work.


I don't confuse trust with a guarantee, and consider that to be a dangerous practice.

Perhaps it is best explained by an example...

I have the right to speak my mind if I disagree with a decision that FirmhandKY makes.  This is not something that I have verbalized nor is it a right that we've either formally or informally discussed and agreed upon.  It is, however, something I feel is my right (my just claim) as an intelligent human being and it is the way I am.  FirmhandKY knows this about me and has (apparently) accepted it. 

Don't get me wrong; he doesn't generally make decisions that I disagree with and I've certainly enough wherewithal to make a respectable determination about when not to press an issue.  I'm not the argumentative type and I like sitting down, thank you very much.  [;)]   This all relates to my previous comments about rights being tied to obligations.

But anyway... FirmhandKY also knows that he has the authority to curtail this right by either revoking or limiting it.  He has that authority because of my trust in him, but that trust does not bind him to guarantee me this right.  And his exercising his authority is not going to damage my trust in him.

Some might call this right a privilege.  I say that is semantical.  Look up privilege in the dictionary and you'll find the word "right" used in it's definition several times.  To me, something becomes a privilege when it exceeds expectations or goes beyond the ordinary.

Of course, what is considered ordinary and what is considered exceeding expectations is a personal preference and your mileage may vary.  For me, it's not guaranteed and it's not my rightful claim... but his love and respect are my privilege.  [:)]



I'm inclined to agree, it is semantical.

If I understand you correctly, even if FirmhandKY were to promise to -never- deny you the freedom to speak your mind about his decisions, and subsequently broke that promise, your trust in him wouldn't change.

For me trust is based on word and deed in agreement with one another. Situations where words promise one thing and deeds deliver something different demonstrate a lack of trustworthiness.

Thus a promise broken (without just cause) betrays trust and risks the basis for the relationship.

Better to keep promises humble, or not make them at all, than to break them.



softness -> RE: I have the Right!!! (10/5/2007 3:37:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Oh my no...please don't be sorry or anything....its just when i saw that staring back at me in print I went "Holy shit!  It was like a light bulb went on...and I KNEW that is what the "fear" I have in me is from....NOT that Master will "do" anything really...but that "something" will happen. You know...like waiting for the other shoe to fall. I need to figure this out, because I WILL NOT live the rest of my life in fear...I just won't. I CAN'T.

breath as one, (GREAT reflection of the concept by the way!)
The key is not to live the rest of your life in fear its to LIVE! Experience all you can together. The goal is not to let these feeling be a barrier to fun and enjoyment you share but a foundation for fun and enjoyment experienced together.

Coming back from this year's Folsom where we learned an acquaintance who we saw and talked to for the past three years died, we were reminded of the fragile nature of life. Our most recent journal post reflects our feelings, summarized by "Suck the bone from the marrow of life!" The quote is a reference to the movie, "Dead Poets Society"; the more know quote "Carpe Diem!" also serves.  

Obviously there are no teeth in the "you must die first" rule for beth. The reality is it is an illustration of my weakness and cowardliness while as the same time showing my confident believe in beth's strength. Of course she denies that strength as she would argue against my weakness. It's a purely theoretical and unenforceable Master's privilege "rule". Funny - until the superficiality of the words are digested within the context of a relationship.


If you ever face such a situation you may learn that words like "you can't die, I forbid it" offer comfort and courage in the face of extreme adversity.



having been in such a situation .. and having been in extreme medical danger ... having the Dominant in my life ay something as pointless as "you cannot die I forbid it" showed me nothiing more than a pathetic slf absorbtion that in no way supported the situation or my needs within it There was no comfort .. there was only very real fear, pain and desperation. Masters are not magical, they do not command the forces of nature, they do not control the life giving processes of our body with mere words.

In a situation where the phrase "you cannot die i forbid it" may actually have relevance .. any kind of grounded individual would be shutting the hell up ... i sent my Owner away, never took him back .. and keep my partners away from situations such as those


as such



Owner4SexSlave -> RE: I have the right!! (10/5/2007 3:45:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HisCompletely

I know Maslow, so staying out of this one.

Oh Darn, there are things not on his nice drawing that should be accounted for.  Such as how people feel the need to be controlled, ruled over, guided or otherwise directed in life on a whole.  For some people being and feeling literally "owned" is actually a fundamental basic need for them.  Some people don't want to move up the pyramid, in fact many people in life never do and never will. 

Neef's POV model is not a hierachy, which Gee Whiz makes some sense.  However regardless of what Models you look at...

People need food, water, shelter and fun things like that inorder to get through the day and not drop dead.  

In terms of mental state of mind, what is a slave is so far gone, that if the house literally catches fire without the master there to give her permission or tell her to leave the house, that she would stay in the house and become crispy crittered to death.   



Bobkgin -> RE: I have the Right!!! (10/5/2007 3:45:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

If you ever face such a situation you may learn that words like "you can't die, I forbid it" offer comfort and courage in the face of extreme adversity.



having been in such a situation .. and having been in extreme medical danger ... having the Dominant in my life ay something as pointless as "you cannot die I forbid it" showed me nothiing more than a pathetic slf absorbtion that in no way supported the situation or my needs within it There was no comfort .. there was only very real fear, pain and desperation. Masters are not magical, they do not command the forces of nature, they do not control the life giving processes of our body with mere words.

In a situation where the phrase "you cannot die i forbid it" may actually have relevance .. any kind of grounded individual would be shutting the hell up ... i sent my Owner away, never took him back .. and keep my partners away from situations such as those

as such


Obviously it doesn't mean the same for everyone, in every relationship.

For my wife it meant a great deal.



Mercnbeth -> RE: I have the Right!!! (10/5/2007 3:56:24 PM)

quote:

having the Dominant in my life ay something as pointless as "you cannot die I forbid it" showed me nothiing more than a pathetic slf absorbtion that in no way supported the situation or my needs within it There was no comfort .. there was only very real fear, pain and desperation. Masters are not magical, they do not command the forces of nature, they do not control the life giving processes of our body with mere words.

In a situation where the phrase "you cannot die i forbid it" may actually have relevance .. any kind of grounded individual would be shutting the hell up ... i sent my Owner away, never took him back .. and keep my partners away from situations such as those

I'm sure your "owner" was grateful for being released by you.
I hope you never have the experience of someone feeling otherwise about you. It would be a waste.



softness -> RE: I have the Right!!! (10/5/2007 4:09:53 PM)

smiles ... not sure how to take that .. there is rather a lot of sarcasm running on the thread .. and i am being dense



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