RE: Dominant women (Full Version)

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Eru -> RE: Dominant women (11/8/2007 12:53:07 AM)

Generally those who are bitches have weak characters and often weak intellects. The bitchiness is a form of lashing out, which is why I equated it with knuckle dragging thugs. I understand the appropriate application of bitchiness, but general bitchiness is almost always a flaw. Now you may take this opinion, or leave it, counter it with a reasoned opinion of your own or you can even prove my point if you wish. The choices are yours to be made.



MissMagnolia -> RE: Dominant women (11/8/2007 1:21:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Eru

Generally those who are bitches have weak characters and often weak intellects. The bitchiness is a form of lashing out, which is why I equated it with knuckle dragging thugs. I understand the appropriate application of bitchiness, but general bitchiness is almost always a flaw. Now you may take this opinion, or leave it, counter it with a reasoned opinion of your own or you can even prove my point if you wish. The choices are yours to be made.


You're opinion isn't important enough to me to even bother responding.[sm=biggrin.gif]

Generally, I find men who make sweeping statements about women and their behaviours to be rather................................arrogant and uninformed.




Eru -> RE: Dominant women (11/8/2007 1:42:27 AM)

"You're opinion isn't important enough to me to even bother responding."

I hate to burst your bubble, but that was a response. Leaving it would have been not responding. Also my opinion was important enough for you to ask for it, what you do with what you ask for has nothing to do with me.

"Generally, I find men who make sweeping statements about women and their behaviours to be rather................................arrogant and uninformed."

First of all I did use the words generally and almost. Second, I was commenting on bitches, not women.



ownedgirlie -> RE: Dominant women (11/8/2007 4:12:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I'd have probably been a lot better off if I had just asked you to write this post for me....lol. You said it lots better than I did....but yeah....that pretty much sums it up.


What, and miss all this great entertainment? Lmao......


I'm not sure how I missed this thread last month, but it was sure an interesting read today.  Great entertainment no doubt, lol.

I understood the OP from the outset - There are dominant women, but thus far she has yet to meet a woman whose power was greater than her own.  My personal sentiments exactly.  Then again, there are very few men whose power felt greater than my own, too.

Chemistry, energy, power, whatever it is that connects people.  One person saying she's never felt it from a particular genre is not the same as saying that genre doesn't have it.  But the responses here have been interesting.



Dari -> RE: Dominant women (11/8/2007 4:37:21 PM)

Just looking at me, you wouldn't automatically assume I'm dominant.  My most recent sub said that when he met me for the first time face to face, he was thinking "well, we'll have a nice time together today, but we'll never play, and there's no way she's dominant enough for me."

By the end of the day he had changed his mind, without my having to resort to general bitchiness.

However, that exercising of my dominance is not something I overtly do to everyone and their brother, particularly not women.  The only time I've dominated woman (in the BDSM world) at all is by their request, for a specific reason, when it's someone I've known for a while first.  Of course, when it comes to leading things out in vanilla life?  I lead men and women on a regular basis, and no one questions my dominance in those arenas.

Perhaps she doesn't feel the dominance of women because 1) she's not interested, and 2) neither are they?  As far as people pushing their dominance on others - that's typically more to do with insecurity or ego than with gender - I've seen fully as many pushy Doms and I have pushy Dommes. 



Morghan -> RE: Dominant women (11/8/2007 5:10:32 PM)

IMO, Dominance is relative.  There are precious few women OR men that I feel are naturally Dominant relative to myself. I mean Dominant but not domineering.  Having a bad attitude, pushing people around, that doesn't make you dominant, it makes you a pain.  Being in control of yourself, your choices, and taking care of your responsibilities efficiently  and effectively, I think those things contribute towards real dominance.  Petty bickering, posturing, anger, bitchiness... all these things undermine one's presence, not enhance it.



slaveofKaos -> RE: Dominant women (11/8/2007 5:37:15 PM)

Your responce made me smile



MadRabbit -> RE: Dominant women (11/8/2007 5:44:19 PM)

Fast Reply To No One In Particular :

I made it through 5 pages of squabbling over semantics and then decided to give up.

I feel slightly dumber after reading this.



Vanatru -> RE: Dominant women (11/8/2007 6:27:22 PM)

Well, no one brought it up, so I'll add to the fray. I can't really take female dominants seriously because of the way they talk and act. What I've seen is that dominance to them is all about play, sex, and postering.

In reality, a lot of what I've seen personally and close-up is really some kinda RP stuff. It's rather ironic, as women are typically seen as the nurturers, but unlike many male dom/masters talk about guide and protect etc, the women talk about use/abuse. In fact, some of the most extreme sadism I've seen have been perpetrated by these female dominants.

I've personally known, and been friends, with a limited selection of female dominants, but they never made the mistake of thinking I would be someone to dominate or that I was expected to respect them as dominants. It was always a sorta oddly mundane type friendship.



hammerthrower -> RE: Dominant women (11/8/2007 7:19:27 PM)

Brilliant and courageous post mistoferin.

Even as a sub male who wishes dominant women grew on trees, I see what you're saying.

I get that this works in your world, mine is different but it does not prevent me from seeing through your little faerie eyes.

Any woman with a whip and a cross in her basement can be labelled as dominant. And I do think that there's a big difference between "bitch" and "domme."

In your model, a man can't always step out of that role. A woman can.

Example, if not the best one:

I recently travelled back to my home state. While I was there, I made it a point to look up a woman I've loved from afar for a long time. I worked with her. I really admired her for her inner strength. I saw her as a domme with all that strength, intelligence, verve, character, etc. I idolized for it all. Unfortunately, she got married. She's divorced now, so I wanted to see what she was up to.

I was home for two weeks, and we went out a few times. She was very honored and impressed that I looked her up and kept calling and visiting. We had a great time. I wanted to submit to her so badly. She had the boots and everything!

This was a woman who took NO BS from anyone. On her first day at her new job, she dressed down the reigning alpha female with a few words and a flick of her wrist. The other woman submitted instantly, which shocked me, and others.

When it came time for us to kiss, my friend immediately adopted a submissive role. I was a little surprised. Granted we were drunk, but when it came time for closeness, she was like a little kitty cat. I'm not saying dominant women can't or shouldn't do that--it was just obvious in that moment how she saw herself in relation to me. I saw my vision of us fade...

What really got me was that she would never call me. When I flew back home, she kept that up. She was clearly an alpha female, but adhered religiously to The Rules. And those are submissive rules... Dominant women, in my opinion, WRITE the rules. Their own rules.

I have since let the correspondence wither to nothing. I know she will never call. It will always be me doing everything. That's still hard for me to figure out. This isn't about whether or not she likes me, I know she's open to it; it's simply on the level of friendship. Wouldn't you call a friend on your own? Why is it a contest?

I think Dominant women can flit between the two worlds, while I don't think men can. So, are those women really dominant?

If a man is dominant he has to call.
If a man is submissive, he still has to call.

This really chips away at my perception of the "dominant" woman. I know this will invoke rage in some people, and several flames and stuff, but I think it's important to analyze and discuss.

So, sometimes I feel a hint of dominance from a woman, but it's always intertwined with submissiveness. It's nice to fall back on those privileges when you can.

In my mind, if you ARE something, you take the good and the bad of it, you don't cherry-pick the good, profitable aspects of two different roles.

How does this relate to the OP? Umm...I hope it still does.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I just know that there will be some who are going to take this post the wrong way as if it were some sort of personal slam....and it's not, so I just want to say that up front.

While I can certainly respect a woman's dominant position in her relationship....or in her community....I don't personally see women as being dominant. It just doesn't work for ME. I've known many dominant women. Some of them are great friends of mine. But I have never FELT dominance from a woman....I just don't get that vibe from them....any of them. I see women as peers.

My question is this though, I have noticed that when I am honest about the way I feel about this, many, if not the majority, will view my opinion as a challenge and set out to "prove" their dominance to me. Some will argue the point with me....and some will go so far as to try to dominate me. Why ladies? I don't get it.

I'm not trying to slam you, it's just that male dominant/female submissive relationships are what work for me in my world. I'm not trying to tell you what to do in yours or what should work for you in yours. Some of us out here are just wired that way....some of us are wired in ways that fit better in your world. But trying to push the point only serves to alienate.  



yourMissTress -> RE: Dominant women (11/8/2007 9:08:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vanatru

Well, no one brought it up, so I'll add to the fray. I can't really take female dominants seriously because of the way they talk and act. What I've seen is that dominance to them is all about play, sex, and postering.

In reality, a lot of what I've seen personally and close-up is really some kinda RP stuff. It's rather ironic, as women are typically seen as the nurturers, but unlike many male dom/masters talk about guide and protect etc, the women talk about use/abuse. In fact, some of the most extreme sadism I've seen have been perpetrated by these female dominants.

I've personally known, and been friends, with a limited selection of female dominants, but they never made the mistake of thinking I would be someone to dominate or that I was expected to respect them as dominants. It was always a sorta oddly mundane type friendship.


Is this a serious post? 
 
I haven't read much of this thread... because I have seen too many posts like this one.  I highly doubt that this thread was intended to start a bashing of female dominants.  Regardless of the intention of the thread, like with many threads, the discussion has taken a turn and everyone is adding their 2 cents worth.  And then there are posts like this. 
 
I understand completely what erin is saying.  She isn't into submitting to a woman and doesn't understand why some insist on trying to dominate her.  I don't understand that either, erin.   
 
I don't understand why several self identified dominant men choose to take every opportunity they perceive, to expose their insecurities and bash dominant women.  The bolded words in the quote above are just one example.  Don't worry Vanatru, you are hardly the first man to be threatened by strong and assertive women, and you won't be the last either.
 
I have a low opinion of several dominant men, not because I don't care for male dominance, but because they are poor examples of dominant men and do a disservice to the dominant men that I have great respect for.  That does not make ALL DOMINANT MEN  poor examples of dominants.  There are dominant men who believe that all women are submissive and those who believe they are not just haven't met the right Dom.  There are dominant women who believe the same about men, it doesn't mean we are all of that opinion.
 
I hold quite a few dominant men in high regard.  Several of those are here on this site... Merc and Knight of Mists just to name a couple off the top of my head.  These are two good examples of men who have a healthy self-esteem and are not threatened by women, dominant or submissive.  How do I know they aren't threatened by them?  I have yet to read a single post where either of them have attacked a group of women or suggested that any woman was not worthy or deserving of respect.
 
The way I see it, we all begin in this lifestyle with a self identified orientation.  We meet and get to know others in the lifestyle and introduce ourselves with these self identified orientations.  After some time there may be people who are inspired to call us by names or titles that recognize and show acceptance of those self identified orientations.  The bottom line is not whether or not others recognize, accept, or respect you in a manner befitting your self identified orientation, but that you recognize, accept, and respect yourself enough within that self identified orientation to do the same for others.
 
erin, sorry I went waaaay off topic, I just had to.



MystressDream -> RE: Dominant women (11/8/2007 9:20:51 PM)

Excellent post, yourMissTress.  I too have many Male Dominant friends in real time and our mutual respect is shown whenever we are in the same venue.
 
Very well written.



MissMagnolia -> RE: Dominant women (11/8/2007 9:31:19 PM)

Hmmm, after reading the last few posts, I was as amazed as I can get on these boards, but Tress, thank you for pretty much typing up what would have been my response.

Vanatru, you did surprise me. You're posts are normally succinct, thoughtful and clear headed. That one though, was insulting and trite.

I have never used sex, play or posturing as part of dominance, as I am sure many other Dommes don't. I personally do not have sexual contact with slaves, I do not "play" and I certainly don't posture. I am not some 23 year old with long blonde hair and big tits dressed up in a leather body suit with a whip in hand, ( for those who do, bloody good luck to you, you gorgeous, sexy lil things[:D]). It's just not my way. My slaves have always been more than happy.

I see a whole galaxy of posturing with many of the Doms on here, especially in the Gorean threads. It is just like reading a really bad novel, by a male with a superiority complex.

As for this line "they never made the mistake of thinking I would be someone to dominate or that I was expected to respect them as dominants." let me assure you, I definitely have no respect for you either. Anyone who has such a ridiculous belief, dismissing a HUGE proportion of the people here as something unworthy, deserves nothing but contempt.



kitttty -> RE: Dominant women (11/8/2007 9:45:15 PM)

I have known genuinely dominant women and I have felt intimidated by their dominance- in a sense, I can feel dominance by a woman.

I also hate feeling it unlike how I welcome dominance by a man. Dominant women revolt me, personally although I can't deny that I have some kind of a dominant side.



BossyShoeBitch -> RE: Dominant women (11/8/2007 9:50:12 PM)

While reading the OP's post and perusing a few pages of responses, the same sort of analogy kept running through my thoughts:

I am not a lesbian.  I may have sex with or play with women on occasion, but I definitely don't get that funny stomach jump that I do when I meet a man I am attracted to.  I can certainly appreciate and flirt with beautiful women even though I am generally not sexually attracted to them.  Does this mean that I don't think 2 women can have all the romance, lust, love and happiness together that I can have have with men?  Certainly not.  It simply means that I can't.  That's all.

I think that's all the OP was saying too.



mistoferin -> RE: Dominant women (11/8/2007 10:09:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress
erin, sorry I went waaaay off topic, I just had to.


Thank you Tress, there is no need to apologize. I very much appreciate your input on the thread and I believe that you understand well my feelings expressed here.



Vanatru -> RE: Dominant women (11/9/2007 6:45:25 AM)

*laughs*
Yourmistress, your profile is exactly what I'm talking about. People as toys??? Exactly the kind of RP and postering I'm talking about. Thanks for the great example. Keep talking abou play-things and convince me that's not about play/sex.

Obviously, if I have female friends that view themselves as dominants, I'm not particularly threatened by em. But I still haven't run across a domme (or whatever label) where it's not about use/abuse, iow play/sex.

Magnolia, ok, you have a point. It looks like you're looking for a man-servant. So, you've provided me with an actual variant. Congrats. Like I said, that's the kinda female dominant I keep running accross. And I don't really feel any love-loss, Magnolia.



yourMissTress -> RE: Dominant women (11/9/2007 6:54:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vanatru

*laughs*
Yourmistress, your profile is exactly what I'm talking about. People as toys??? Exactly the kind of RP and postering I'm talking about. Thanks for the great example. Keep talking abou play-things and convince me that's not about play/sex.

Obviously, if I have female friends that view themselves as dominants, I'm not particularly threatened by em. But I still haven't run across a domme (or whatever label) where it's not about use/abuse, iow play/sex.


Please re-read my post and tell me where I said that it's not about play or sex. 
 
If you would like to run circles around the issue that I chose to address, be my guest, I will watch from the sidelines as I play. 
 
However, if you would like to have a discussion about the issue I am addressing...I'll check back to see if you respond.



GoodgirlFind -> RE: Dominant women (11/9/2007 7:33:06 AM)

First off, it's only about sex, play, and postering for a greater portion of male dominants, plus there are few male dominants who care about guiding and protecting. For many of them its only about sex, and egotism.

Basically most extreme sadism is done by men with all their pent up anger towards women,

most murders are by men.
Most victims are women.
Men have mental problems because of their inability to nurture themselves, exppress their feelings and deal with angry insides.

Sadism brought onto men by women is because them men love it and alot of men like a bad-ass domme wholl make him lick her boots.

Im dead serious in this but you don't respect women and I bet you hate dominant women even more so then submissive women.



wisteriaV -> RE: Dominant women (11/9/2007 11:11:59 AM)

Chuckles. I've lived with Vanatru going on three years and he doesn't hate women. The forums are for sharing our views and concepts... I don't necessarily agree with everyone on everything and that includes Master.  Shrugs so you don't like his view point or mine about women doms thats great...so move on with it...Think of us what you will and let it go.



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