RE: Dominant women

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Ponyboy7 -> RE: Dominant women (10/6/2007 12:08:59 AM)
To KoM, Iammachine does make a valid point; while I see the OP's statement as merely an expression of her own lack of submission to women, I can also see that from the statement "I don't see a woman as being dominant," one could well infer that the OP believes that women in general are not dominant. I think iammachine is pointing out that, based on what others have putatively inferred from the statement, it might be reasonable to say something less open to such inferences, such as "I don't submit to women." Doing so may avoid some of the agressiveness that the OP has said was exihibited by dominant women in previous situations. I think it is not unreasonable to presume that those women perceived the original statement as questioning the ability of women in general to be dominant, and they then acted in a manner so as prove women can be dominant. If the original statement is modifed slightly, perhaps this will not occur with such a high frequency. Even though I, and others, may have correctly perceived the true intent of the OP's statement, there are others who have not. Iammachine is merely pointing out that, while the statement is clear for some, it is still able to be perceived incorrectly by others, and this can lead to the negative situations that the OP has experienced. While I am not suggesting that the OP's statement was a negative one, I am positing that a slight modification in wording can vastly reduce the number of people who may perceive it negatively. If the OP does not care that some may take it negatively, even though it is not intended that way, then that is fine. However, should the OP wish to reduce the number of those people who take it negatively so as to possibly avoid similar exhibitions of aggressive behavior, then my suggestion would be a slight change in wording as suggested by iammachine.

MadameMarque -> RE: Dominant women (10/6/2007 12:47:42 AM)
Whatever else is said here, can we please, please, at long last, stop equating feminism with being a hateful villainess? This is so antiquated; it goes to show how hard the propaganda of prejudice dies that keeps the persecuted in their place. If a woman is assertive or gets angry or wants something, all anyone has to say, to put her in her place, is “bitch.” Just that one word, and you can dismiss her. Why is no one worried about how acting assertive makes a man a “bitch,” and so unattractive! What is the word that dismisses a man, for standing up for himself, for having dreams and going for them, for putting himself first, on occasion, for competing, for wanting to feel his power, in the world, for being righteously angry, when offended or put down? If you believe that women have individual personalities, like men do, and should be as free as men, to express them; if you feel that women should be allowed the same freedoms, same access to power and resources and money, same opportunities to choose and pursue goals, the same rights to self-determination, that men have - Then, you may not like it, but you’re a feminist. Sorry you had to find out this way, on a BDSM forum. As for the original post, it’s a bit like someone stomping into a room and proclaiming, “I don’t want to!” when none of us has asked you to do anything. If the original post was only to announce that the poster doesn’t feel submissive toward women, then: Yes. And? But frankly, I think that Annabelle has it right. The original post really does read as if the poster is spoiling for the chance to argue that she has the right to feel that it is not in women’s nature to be dominant, which is different than not personally feeling submissive toward women, and different than yet a third perception, of simply not wanting a woman to dominate you, personally. Do I misunderstand you? We all have a right to our feelings and our boundaries. Even ! dominant women. Nothing says, "you're not the boss of me!" like a dominant male who feels compelled to dominate a dominant woman, because he thinks her very existence challenges him. Does that say "alpha male," or does that say, "insecure"? Same goes for anybody, either gender, who wants to pad their ego by imposing their attempts at dominance on an unwilling subject. But questioning someone else's feelings, such as challenging whether women are capable of being dominant, to a bunch of women who say they do feel that way, is crossing their boundaries, too. "I don't feel submissive toward women" is not the same as going out of your way to tell a dominant woman that you don't see women as dominant, in general. If your perception invalidates others’ feelings, don’t be so surprised, when you announce that to them, that you aren’t well received.

mistoferin -> RE: Dominant women (10/6/2007 1:18:34 AM)
You really should read the whole thread.

ShiftedJewel -> RE: Dominant women (10/6/2007 4:29:28 AM)
Had to chime in here... I adore Erin, she knows that. Her statement isn't made to provoke anyone, I know that because she made the same statement to me when we (Scooter and I) were discussing the possibility of a relationship with her. I honestly appreciated her honesty and being totally upfront with us. I'm one of those female dominants she is good friends with (I am, right??? lmao) I've met a LOT of females that feel the same way and not all of them, ok, the largest part of them, are not honest about it and we find out further down the line. Most of the time we find out by the way the female acts towards me... not a good way to find out. Anyway, I can see how that comment would come up in conversations on a regular basis. (it does with me when I am talking to female submissives) I also don't see it as challenging my personal dominance, or the dominance of any female, I see it as an honest statement concerning her feelings. I CAN see how it would hit a nerve in someone that isn't totally secure in their personal beliefs or in their orientation... It's no different then a male dominant saying they just don't see women as being dominant... some how that sounds like insecurity to me. And just because I can I'm going to add that any statement made, whether it be a personal belief or opinion, can be interpreted or misinterpreted by anyone that chooses to take the time to pick it apart, add to it, detract from it or make something up that has little if anything to do with it. Those are the people that I personally have no reason to have a conversation with since I am fully aware of their inability to take anything I say at face value without reading something into it. There is no hidden agenda, I am not beating around the bush or hinting at things unspoken and knowing Erin the way I do, she is the same way. *Jewel*

cloudboy -> RE: Dominant women (10/6/2007 5:23:14 AM)
I agree with Najackcharmer, if one is secure, you don't respond to challenges or contrary views as "threats" and "accusations." Femdoms, too, engage in Mistoferin-type diclosures all the time. For instance, once a quarter we get to read how a group of femdoms prefer 'real men,' and "don't like cross dressers or sissies." In those debates, I always like to say, "don't concentrate so much on what you like, instead seek to understand how others are different from you." Lately we've had two threads on the differences between male and female dominance. Bearlee's thread. Simply Michael's thread. In simplymichael's thread, I said that the difference between maledoms and femdoms was sexual power. To me, femdom's secure their position through sexual power, and if this supposition is true, then its no wonder mistoferin doesn't feel and get it.

LaTigresse -> RE: Dominant women (10/6/2007 6:09:00 AM)
I am so glad to see Jewel and 2x's input on this, knowing the personal history. Having read so many of Erin's posts and being used to her blunt and honest way of communicating I knew that there would be those that would get upset. Honesty often times gets that reaction. I guess for me, I just don't understand why anyone would be upset.........for all the reasons I initially stated. Who cares how anyone sees you if it does not have a negative impact on your personal life. Also, I certainly have been called a bitch and if I were prone to wearing silly worded tshirts I would get one I have seen before that states "you say bitch like its a bad thing!" or something like that. Oddly though, only a few have ever said it to my face and one was my hormonal teenage daughter.....once. Other than that instance which is pretty much self explanatory, the attitude or name calling was done by someone that I KNOW has no clue of who I really am. ....sooooo Again, for the most part.......I just don't care. How can we expect the entire human race to have specific ideals of the person we are? Just as everyone that meets us is not going to like us, not everyone is going to see us the way we would like them to either. Why does it matter? See beyond the stuff that annoys simply because is challenges a preconceived belief system and you tend to learn something new. Erin is a good person, this I have learned from her words. Many times we disagree on certain issues, HUGELY! Sooooooo what? I am quite certain we both have personality traits that would grate a bit on one another. I would still take the opportunity to meet her and spend time with her because she has qualities that I admire, regardless of wether or not we always agree. AND regardless of wether or not I inspire one iota of submission in her! I don't need to to enjoy her company. The thing is, I am confident that we are both mature adults and can conduct ourselves as such. Edited to add something that just came to me while I was getting more coffee....... Another thing to keep in mind. I see a marked difference in what Erin is saying versus a negative mindset that I do find annoying on occasion. There are several on these forums that identify as submissive women that I see as purposely nasty and baiting with dominant women. I have avoided threads I thought were excellent threads because I saw one or more of these women participating and I didn't want to stir any shit by giving them a reason to sidetrack a valid thread. There is a difference between making a statement that says I do not view you as dominant but as an equal, which to me would mean alot in itself knowing Erin, and the less mature behaviour of. "I am going to be a nasty tempered immature twit to you because you threaten me" type of bullshit from a few other submissive women. The first is just an honest statement while the other type of behaviour is childish and shows serious personal issues. The first causes me to respect them even if I do not agree with them, the second just makes me shake my head at their misfortune of being an idiot.

chiaThePet -> RE: Dominant women (10/6/2007 7:04:51 AM)
Nice thinking post, got me pondering. When i look at individuals, i don't automatically see Dominant or submissive, i suppose i don't even give it much thought in the long run. Here of course, it's all laid out for us, as we offer up definitions of how we feel and fit into the scheme of things. In the day to day, i have exchange with personalities, positions, attitudes, approaches, strengths and weaknesses as they are offered and applied. Many times, what is offered on the outside, is a complete masquerade of that which exists deep within. i simply have no desire to excavate each surface which stands before me that i should know what really lies beneath it all. Do i see Males as Dominant because they are males, no, can't say that i do. Of course there are males whom can Dominate me physically, they are bigger and stronger, some will Dominate me intellectually, they are smarter, some will Dominate particular situations, they've mastered the command and conquer of said particular situations, some will Dominate me sexually, as i so choose, though i often simply smile when proclamations of sexuality precede the footsteps of a man before he enters the room. Just in case you know, if anyone had a notion otherwise. Same goes for Women, don't view them as either Dominant or submissive as a rule, i tend to buck the notions society would have me believe. Yep, i have seen Women whom display a physical prowess that makes me arch an eyebrow and not even want to go there. We have a hometown boxer who simply kicks ass in the ring, more than likely mine as well. Do i view her as Dominant, in the ring yes, could be a pussycat on the other side of the ropes for all i know. Any Women whom can Dominate me intellectually, damn straight, i like to associate with such, good for the brain cells. Yes, Women can and have Dominated me in the context of situation, but i do not automatically place them in a category of absolute definition. i am a submissive for many reasons, but i don't follow a specifice game plan that reveals me as such to those whose paths i cross. There is a core within me as a submissive, that frankly very few have reached, Man, or Woman. i related to erin's words, all semantics aside, that in general, i don't see either gender as Dominant or submissive beyond the context of wiiwd here, and even here, "just because" certainly isn't set in stone. And, as with erin, i would resent anyone trying to "prove" otherwise at the expense of my own feelings, emotions and beliefs that they might convince me otherwise. If one does not see it, they simply don't see it, such should not be taken as an affront to the classifications we so often place on ourselves and each other. chia* (the pet)

SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: Dominant women (10/6/2007 7:20:12 AM)
this is something i have thought about a lot, and discussed with others i respect. i never thought to post it to the boards, because, well im a wimp, and didnt want to face the flack. because of how my mind works, as a submissive female, i can not wrap it around a female being the dominant, or the male being submissive. i told this to a dominant female on here once, adding that although i couldnt wrap my mind around the concept, i truely enjoyed her interpretations of things and the interactions she had on the board. she was so kind with her reply, and that made me realize that i can communicate truth without offending, if i take the time to think first. i will never "get" female domination, it is so foreign to me, but i can learn from everyone i think.....even those who do things i find to be not for me. erin, thanks for starting this thread-it has been very interesting to me.

GoodgirlFind -> RE: Dominant women (10/6/2007 7:54:34 AM)
could it be she unconsciously resents having to be <<<<submissive>>>>>but has to because it's the only way she can get some kind of attention from a man. But since she isnt reeeeeally submissive, she gets resentful of that and resentful of femdoms because they know how to control a man to get what they want?

SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: Dominant women (10/6/2007 8:04:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoodgirlFind could it be she unconsciously resents having to be <<<<submissive>>>>>but has to because it's the only way she can get some kind of attention from a man. But since she isnt reeeeeally submissive, she gets resentful of that and resentful of femdoms because they know how to control a man to get what they want? having to be submissive? that is one statement that flew right over my subby lil head

LaTigresse -> RE: Dominant women (10/6/2007 8:34:57 AM)
It went right over my lil pea brain also............ perhaps some sort of miscommunication thang.

thetammyjo -> RE: Dominant women (10/6/2007 8:49:48 AM)
Do you think that the common reasons you each have for being in a given role may reflect a reality that the D and S roles are not that different and that a good person is a good person regardless of role? If someone asks me why I'm dominant the most honest answer I can give is "Is there another way for me to be?" It is simply as I am perhaps just as you are simply as you are. While I like attempts to understand what makes us each tick I think sometimes we make it more difficult than it really is. I know that I can over think and over analysis stuff until my head spins. quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin I just know that there will be some who are going to take this post the wrong way as if it were some sort of personal slam....and it's not, so I just want to say that up front. Well, I'm glad that I said this right up front, although a good many seem to have taken it as a personal affront anyway. Wow. For all of those who "wondered" how such a conversation could come up....no, I don't go walking up to strange dominant women and tell them that I think they're full of shit. I "wonder" why anyone would even think that kind of scenario a possibility. These are conversations that have taken place with A) dominant women I know very well and have great respect for(which generally go quite well and are understood) B) dominant women who approach me for play or in hopes of having a relationship at munches, events, parties or even here on Collarme.....and my opinion comes up after tactfully refusing their advances in as many ways as I have possibly been able to come up with. They are the ones who want to know "but WHY" and persist until I tell them. They give me a 1,000 reasons why they see themselves as dominant...."but"...."but"...."but".... I generally hear reasons such as "I am very much in control of my life". My answer...ok, so am I and I'm submissive. "I have always been a leader". My answer, Ok....so have I and I'm submissive". "I am the breadwinner in my household and make a good income....I'm a business owner....manager, etc." My answer, ok, so am I and I'm submissive". "People just naturally follow my lead". My answer, Ok, people naturally follow my lead and I'm submissive. "I don't NEED a man, I'm perfectly capable of handling all aspects of my life without one". My answer, Ok, I don't NEED one either and I'm submissive". "I" am a very strong, confident person with a very strong personality. I can take care of myself, manage my life, maintain my car, mow my own lawn, take out my own trash, split my own wood, hunt and process my own food. When things go wrong I figure out how to make them right, I don't need a savior to rush in and help me out. But....I don't see ANY of these things as being dominant or submissive....I just see these things as being a capable human being. However, these are the types of things that I have had dominant women state as evidence of their dominance. I'm sorry, I just don't see it that way. If I did I would likely have myself convinced that I, too, am a dominant woman.....but I'm not. The characteristics they describe are the type of characteristics that would likely make them a greatly compatible friend for me. I admire strong people very much. But when they continue to push and wave their "dominance" at me like it's a weapon....that doesn't do anything for me but push me further away from them. It is almost like some view me as some sort of challenge....and yes, I've had some men do it too. Kind of like when a guy walks into a bar and picks a fight with the biggest guy in there....because he's got something to prove. Then of course, when the outcome is not what they set out after, the ultimate response is usually..."well, I don't think you're REALLY submissive". Someone also asked if I see all men as dominant. No, absolutely not....not even a whole bunch of them who define themselves that way.

mistoferin -> RE: Dominant women (10/6/2007 8:51:16 AM)
Jewel, you know I love you to pieces and I am so thankful that you understood my view and didn't take it personally. You ARE a great friend and that is possible in part because you didn't take it as a personal slam, you didn't try to change my mind or go into dominant overdrive in the hopes that I would ultimately cave in or that I would come around to your way of thinking eventually. That just wasn't going to happen. We both know that you simply can't fit a square peg in a round hole no matter how hard you pound it. Thanks for not trying. The end result is that I have a few really wonderful friends who I have come to think of as family, have shared some wonderful times with....and visiting always feels like "Home". Had you been arrogant and pushed in response....well, look at how much we would have missed out on.

mistoferin -> RE: Dominant women (10/6/2007 8:56:14 AM)
Thank you LaT....such kind words. Anytime you want to get together....you bring the coffee and I'll bring the CHOCOLATE! I think you're a pretty amazing lady and I would be glad to have the opportunity to get to know you better.

mistoferin -> RE: Dominant women (10/6/2007 9:01:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoodgirlFind could it be she unconsciously resents having to be <<<<submissive>>>>>but has to because it's the only way she can get some kind of attention from a man. But since she isnt reeeeeally submissive, she gets resentful of that and resentful of femdoms because they know how to control a man to get what they want? ummmm....Wow!

susie -> RE: Dominant women (10/6/2007 9:07:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoodgirlFind could it be she unconsciously resents having to be <<<<submissive>>>>>but has to because it's the only way she can get some kind of attention from a man. But since she isnt reeeeeally submissive, she gets resentful of that and resentful of femdoms because they know how to control a man to get what they want? Are you talking about Erin here in particular or just generally submissives. I have no idea what you mean by "having to be submissive" Nobody HAS to be submissive, it is generally what they are. If you read all of Erins posts here and all you got out of that is that you think she is tying to get attention from a man then you need to go back and reread the posts. How you made that leap from what has been said it nonsense.

MzMia -> RE: Dominant women (10/6/2007 9:19:02 AM)
Having read the entire thread I have a few comments. First of all, I can see why some Dominant women would be offended. I was one of them, until I read Erin’s post 3 times. Erin clearly states this is how SHE feels, and this is just her opinion. I was thinking if I dared to right a similar post like this stating how I am not attracted to women as far as being MY submissive, and I don't find most women submissive to ME, I would probably be called everything but a child of GOD. I have posted here long enough to KNOW, that when I give my opinion on things, there will be people here that disagree with me, and many here enjoy debating and attacking other people. I also, even have a small group of followers that will seek out my posts, to dissect, criticize, and flame me. {I know their screen names and they usually show up and share their negative, usually nasty and sarcastic opinions with me, no matter what the topic is.} I find it interesting that certain people here are easy targets and many of the long standing members have a “pass” card. The “pass” card means that normally you will not be the victim of a group attack, and if anyone does many of the other members will rally to your defense. I am of the camp, that anyone that posts on these boards, is usually going to have people that don’t agree or challenge what they say. I have seen thousands of threads where people are torn to threads for far less than what Erin has said. I enjoy sitting back and reading most of the posts, these days. I just become amused at “which” posters are commonly attacked and “which” posters are never attacked. The dynamics that go on here certainly correlate with a lot of what we learned in Psychology 101, especially “group think”. We all have a right to post here, and evidently we all have a right to say whatever we want {within TOS agreements}, and anyone that posts here is going to have to deal with the answers and replies that they receive. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming. [:D]

NoreenSwan -> RE: Dominant women (10/6/2007 12:55:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin I generally hear reasons such as "I am very much in control of my life". My answer...ok, so am I and I'm submissive. "I have always been a leader". My answer, Ok....so have I and I'm submissive". "I am the breadwinner in my household and make a good income....I'm a business owner....manager, etc." My answer, ok, so am I and I'm submissive". "People just naturally follow my lead". My answer, Ok, people naturally follow my lead and I'm submissive. "I don't NEED a man, I'm perfectly capable of handling all aspects of my life without one". My answer, Ok, I don't NEED one either and I'm submissive". "I" am a very strong, confident person with a very strong personality. I can take care of myself, manage my life, maintain my car, mow my own lawn, take out my own trash, split my own wood, hunt and process my own food. When things go wrong I figure out how to make them right, I don't need a savior to rush in and help me out. But....I don't see ANY of these things as being dominant or submissive....I just see these things as being a capable human being. However, these are the types of things that I have had dominant women state as evidence of their dominance. I'm sorry, I just don't see it that way. If I did I would likely have myself convinced that I, too, am a dominant woman.....but I'm not. The characteristics they describe are the type of characteristics that would likely make them a greatly compatible friend for me. I admire strong people very much. But when they continue to push and wave their "dominance" at me like it's a weapon....that doesn't do anything for me but push me further away from them. It is almost like some view me as some sort of challenge....and yes, I've had some men do it too. Kind of like when a guy walks into a bar and picks a fight with the biggest guy in there....because he's got something to prove. Then of course, when the outcome is not what they set out after, the ultimate response is usually..."well, I don't think you're REALLY submissive". Someone also asked if I see all men as dominant. No, absolutely not....not even a whole bunch of them who define themselves that way. you discuss how you can do all the things a dominate girl do yet you are a submissive. well, good for you. dont know why you felt the need to start an entire thread on it just to tell us all that about yourself and your competive beef with girl dominates. but hey, i've seen wierder things. as I see it, sure girls who submit can take care of her life just as well as a girl who dominates. the only difference I see is one girl dominates to get what she wants and the other girl submits to get what she wants. both girls do the opposite (one submits, the other dominates) to get what they want. i think this poster has a point though in that your resentment is from the fact you dont dominate to get what you want, you instead submit to get what you want and you resent having to do that and knocking girl dominataes down to your level helps to justify your judgements on them. youre post seems like jeaous attack on dominates girls is all and i dont know why dominate girls get your feathers all in a rustle. furthermore, where are all these dominte women who are hunting you down? LOL. I would like to know as I would love that to happen to me. I go weak for the power of a dominate girls mental mind fucks, seductive lures and powerful and commanding ways. she snaps her fingers, i go weak. LOL. Like a previous poster said , you want to see a dominate woman, come see my mother. LOL. There you will see leader who lead the family and lead her career. btw, my father was a school principal. LOL

KnightofMists -> RE: Dominant women (10/6/2007 1:57:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: taintedgypsy Oh and BTW KOM I love the fact that I enjoy both genders ... it really increases my chances of getting laid lol mmmmmmm yes.. you equal opportunity sluts... have to envy the greater chances you have of getting laid.... And if a person happens to switch.. their chances are even greater. W but alas... I am content for my own preferences.... it just wouldn't feel good to put on shoes that don't fit.

KnightofMists -> RE: Dominant women (10/6/2007 2:04:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia I just become amused at “which” posters are commonly attacked and “which” posters are never attacked. mmmmmmmm yes... well... I think they are scared of me.... I think I could get away with murder here... in fact... I think I have!!!

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