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RE: Machismo and BDSM - 10/10/2007 3:28:18 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Winsome, you could be onto something there. Lord knows I am a cynical and suspicious bitch, for the most part. What sucks is that I am all too often correct when it comes to people and stupid games. This is one area I love being proved wrong.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
Profile   Post #: 201
RE: Machismo and BDSM - 10/10/2007 3:37:31 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		I may be kind of weird in this, but E10N joined the same time I did, and EarthyCouple  was at the same time, one of the first persons on this site to be friendly and helpful toward me.  Even though I don't always understand E10N (mostly because he speaks in language I don't know) I still follow their posts out of a strange sort of 'imprinting' I have felt towards them since joining.  There's no way to know that Queensway is feeling defensive for Bob because of something similar.  It is probably rather unlikely, since I think my imprinting is probably rather odd to begin with, but there you have it.  I'm an odd duck.  Go figure :)

< Message edited by WinsomeDefiance -- 10/10/2007 3:38:37 PM >

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 202
RE: Machismo and BDSM - 10/10/2007 3:49:24 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I like odd ducks, find them much more interesting on the whole. I think I am a bit of one myself.......just a cynical bitch of a duck.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
Profile   Post #: 203
RE: Machismo and BDSM - 10/10/2007 3:50:35 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		I bet that just adds flavoring.  LaTigresse a'la'bitch

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 204
RE: Machismo and BDSM - 10/10/2007 4:24:50 PM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Winsome, you could be onto something there. Lord knows I am a cynical and suspicious bitch, for the most part. What sucks is that I am all too often correct when it comes to people and stupid games. This is one area I love being proved wrong.


::smile::

Am I to understand it is your belief the only person who could publicly post in support of me is ... me?

Velvetears used to to the same until I refused to join her against Prop. Now she joins you folk in these 'posting parties'.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend", I suppose.

At any rate, QueensWay is neither me nor anyone I know. I wrote her one note on 9/20 to thank her for her support in a thread, which she politely received.

That she showed up here was as much to my surprise as anyone else's.

Not that what she said is any surprise. I see those kinds of comments in my mail all the time ("What's wrong with those people?").

Let's see: a group of people, for the past ten weeks straight, have been posting the most hypocritical provocations they can invent, which I ignore.

I can see how that might provoke others to jump in and want to knock heads together.

I imagine this will only get worse.

I'm glad this is not my problem.

"For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind"
Hosea 8:7

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 205
RE: Machismo and BDSM - 10/10/2007 4:46:36 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin.

Thus I am starting this thread for the purpose of discussing machismo as it relates to BDSM.


Because one woman's meet is another woman's passion......
machismo...................
related to macho but meaning pride in being macho, pride in being male.
Too confused with narcisistic tendencies these days to be simply positive pride...almost as if the meaning of machismo got perverted when feminism insisted men got in touch with their feminine side?
I love that quip....are you in touch with your feminine side....yeah i touched her up this morning.

I'm therefore am saying, I suppose, as much as i can decide on any conclusions these days, that machismo within a bdsm setting, if consensual, is gorgeous, I find it so in a man....but non-consensual machismo has overtones of power OVER  rather than power exchange.
Oh I'm just an old fashoned girlie waiting in her ivory tower, waiting to be rescued and if I could swallow a pill, like Alice in wonderland and be man enough to jump I would....but sorry I will simply have to wait until that machismo smoocho mucho comes to get me............
sorry Bobki that's as good as I can do tonight.....

(in reply to Bobkgin)
Profile   Post #: 206
RE: Machismo and BDSM - 10/10/2007 5:01:24 PM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

sorry Bobki that's as good as I can do tonight.....



Thank you, Prinnie.

Your point of view is always welcome here.

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 207
RE: Machismo and BDSM - 10/10/2007 6:03:51 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: QueensWay

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i won't challenge Bob as far as saying he debated not discussed but i will point out that he seems to only recognize those contributions which come closest to supporting his opinions.



Now, why is it when people post something for debate, they become targets for some peoples vicious personal attacks and insults? Are they not just giving their opinion? Even the ones that beat on their chest and say 'my way is the only way' isn't it just an opinion or personal outlook or belief? I can understand debating back and forth in an intellectual manner, but the name-calling and rude remarks? Why do some people automatically spring to the defensive end of the process? By the way, whoopie dooo that bob pays more attention to posts that match his own. Dont you? Big freaking deal. Get over it for crying out loud. This dude addressed posts that did not match his. So what are u even talking about?


Just like myself, some people have personal views which rightly should never be compromised for anyone. If i don't agree with something, I simply move on. Posters Camille, Aileen, Creative Dom, Heartfelt have gotten on Bobs case and resorted to personal insults etc, when he didn't turn anything personal on them. They obviously and quite clearly got personal on him becauswe they felt threatened in some way. Post 65, 69, 86 for Camille, 54, 82, 91 for Aileen, 89 for Creative Dom, 101 for heartfelt. You women are to sensitive and while you are the ones who turn it personal, you project it on Bob like hes the one. You women cant debate without getting personal or defensive. Study WD's post because she handles hereself with class and intelligence in post 66, 87, 97 ectera. Amazing. Its too easy attacking someone on the internet,would they behave the same way in a face to face real life situation?if you're sensitive then posting on a public forum really is'nt a good idea. I could'nt give a flying fuck what anyone thinks of my opinions. If you can't take criticism(constructive or not), or you can take others who don't agree and state so and then ask you to debate with them further in an NON-personal attack manner, then don't contribute.


Actually QW...what you have failed to notice is that my post, and those of many of the above you mention, did not engage in a personal attack on Bob.  My first post to him was...I thought and according to some of the email I have received, others did also...a differing and well-stated point of view from his "machismo is for the insecure and those males lacking in intelligence and I just don't understand why it appeals to some women...My way of not engaging in male 'rooster' displays is much more culturally refined and indicative of intelligence". 

Personal?  Please show me where in either of my posts I denigrated Bob personally (that would be along the lines of personal appearance or height or weight or bad teeth...those things he can do nothing about).  Nor did I denigrate his intelligence level, as his post regarding those of us males who enjoy rough sports and other such "stereoptypical" male endeavors did.

What I did call him on in my second post was his not answering...as usual...those who are bold enough to state a differing viewpoint from his and challenging him to provide better examples than those he gives or who refute his stated opinion about others who do not follow his way.  That is not a personal attack against Bob, it is an attack against his belief that others who do not believe the way he does are somehow inferior...and if you do not believe that, then you might wish to take some time and go over Bob's postings for the last few months. 

By the way, you will note that he still not "engage in discussion" of any sort with those...including me...who offer differing viewpoints.  He comes back with jibes and jabs to answer any that might...or might not have...been thrown his way and neatly avoids answering those differing viewpoints.  Explanations?  Sure, he posts to those, thanking them nicely.  But differing viewpoints?  No, then he might have to engage in debate and back up what he says with something other than his own life observations.  Please do confuse his "gentle" ways and eloquent words for a guileless human being without deception or the ability to be rancorous and a pot-stirrer.

Oh and finally?  I am indeed a male...100% male who, as Merc noted about most males, has engaged in fisticuffs and warfare and heated verbal debate and who does have a chauvinistic side and a decidedly masculine side with an occasional dash of machismo.





(in reply to QueensWay)
Profile   Post #: 208
RE: Machismo and BDSM - 10/10/2007 6:25:24 PM   
AEslaveM


Posts: 126
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline 		quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

Machismo is a self confident, self assured, poised man is sexy. Machismo is an arrogant, self absorbed, pompous man is disgusting. So, I guess it's not the suit, but the man who wears it.


i agree with this, too!

M

_____________________________

M


(in reply to MistressDolly)
Profile   Post #: 209
RE: Machismo and BDSM - 10/10/2007 6:55:48 PM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

...what you have failed to notice is that my post, and those of many of the above you mention, did not engage in a personal attack on Bob.  My first post to him was...I thought and according to some of the email I have received, others did also...a differing and well-stated point of view from his "machismo is for the insecure and those males lacking in intelligence and I just don't understand why it appeals to some women...My way of not engaging in male 'rooster' displays is much more culturally refined and indicative of intelligence". 



I am curious, CD.

Is the invention of a quote a "personal attack"?

Do you need to invent quotes that never existed?

Do you prefer to deal with words you wish I'd said, rather than what I've actually said?

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 210
RE: Machismo and BDSM - 10/10/2007 7:13:29 PM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Thank you for the clarification, TN.

Assuming you are correct (and I admit it makes a lot of sense to me, given my previous studies on this), I can see why I've never felt certainty about it.

You've essentially described an internal (instinctive) response all women have towards men exhibiting machismo. As I understand what you've said, some women govern this response with "intelligence" and "critical thought". You've also indicated that some women do not respond well to such men because they are conditioned not to (either as part of their upbringing or part of their experience).

TN, do feel free to correct me if I've mis-stated your position on this.


Yup-that's pretty much it. Sometimes it kind of sucks to realize we still have so much "animal" in us or that there isn't some lofty, noble reason for our actions. But then that's what drives so much of BDSM and D/s so I guess it's an even trade.

(in reply to Bobkgin)
Profile   Post #: 211
RE: Machismo and BDSM - 10/10/2007 7:35:51 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I expected that you would walk away. That defines you doesn't it? A submissive who didn't understand all the rules during the 'interview process' and as a result fails you and disrespects the relationship earns withdraw. You, a man who can determine "love" by an interview process. Why troll here? Your process should only need to be employed once. Yet - you document all the many "slaves" and "submissives" who have crossed your path. You withdrew from all of them? They failed you in all cases? How does that speak to the validity of your interview process? Or is it the result of an evolutionary process, yet to be employed in real life?


I understand your need to provoke through misrepresentation, Merc. The attempts to provoke a flame-war are obvious to everyone.

I suppose it does not occur to you those I seek will do their own homework, and not rely upon you or your friends to tell them what to think of me.

And as I am only here to find those I seek, you are welcome to anyone who will have you as far as I am concerned.

Thank you for your contribution.
Appreciating my contributions I'll add to them...

Flaming is now defined by you as a question regarding your documented history? A very broad stroke there Bob. Why no answer to any of the questions or pointing to any false assumptions? Wonder why, with exposing so much about yourself, you fear direct response? 

Whether you find someone or not is your problem. My situation is very pleasant - thank you very much. I only ask how you are going to get, where I am, with consistent self contradiction in your very plan. "Machismo" or not that could pose a problem. You've established in another thread that you are posting to an audience and care about your image. In this thread you pride yourself and congratulate yourself on your writing skills. The thread itself challenges all not you - the confident action oriented man. Is you CM profile a directed assignment to build your self esteem?

(in reply to Bobkgin)
Profile   Post #: 212
RE: Machismo and BDSM - 10/10/2007 8:16:36 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

in this thread you pride yourself and congratulate yourself on your writing skills.


I think of it as preening.


_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 213
RE: Machismo and BDSM - 10/10/2007 8:40:54 PM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Appreciating my contributions I'll add to them...



You don't see it, do you Merc?

By issuing challenges to a man whom you claim to be more pathetic than you, you merely prove yourself to be a bully who picks on weaker men.

On the other hand, if I am a man whose qualities you must conquer to prove you are the superior man, then you've already acknowledged my superiority, in which case it would be cowardly of me to accept the challenge of a man more pathetic than I.

Either way, you've lost the contest when you issued the challenge.

For either way, I am not the coward who picks on weaker men.

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 214
RE: Machismo and BDSM - 10/10/2007 9:33:58 PM   
QueensWay


Posts: 22
Joined: 7/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Appreciating my contributions I'll add to them...



You don't see it, do you Merc?

By issuing challenges to a man whom you claim to be more pathetic than you, you merely prove yourself to be a bully who picks on weaker men.

On the other hand, if I am a man whose qualities you must conquer to prove you are the superior man, then you've already acknowledged my superiority, in which case it would be cowardly of me to accept the challenge of a man more pathetic than I.

Either way, you've lost the contest when you issued the challenge.

For either way, I am not the coward who picks on weaker men.

AAHAA!!!!!! True true so true. Shame that they just like something to bitch about nothing because they have nothing better to do with their time. Really. I hate it.

(in reply to Bobkgin)
Profile   Post #: 215
RE: Machismo and BDSM - 10/10/2007 10:15:17 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Velvetears used to to the same until I refused to join her against Prop. Now she joins you folk in these 'posting parties'.



i don't know where you get your information from, you sure have some wild ideas going on.  When did i refuse to join with you against anything?  We may have been on opposite sides of the fence in that thread, so you automatically make an assinine assumption like that?  First off, i am not against prop.  i might question the authenticity of her posts, that doesn't mean i am against her. 

If you remember correctly Bob, when you first came to CM i was quite friendly to you and gave you the benefit of the doubt, even made a post defending you.  Seems that if people disagree with you, in your eyes they are somehow against you.  The last exchange we had in the medication thread you became very nasty and snarky calling me an armchair analyst and patronized me, did i return your unkindness with rude behavior to you, no i simply walked away from it. 

The world does not revolve around you.  You keep tallys of such things as what position someone took on particular threads????  You truly need to get a life.  You disappoint me, i thought more of you then what you have shown me in the last week or so.  Good luck.


_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to Bobkgin)
Profile   Post #: 216
RE: Machismo and BDSM - 10/11/2007 3:28:47 AM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Velvetears used to to the same until I refused to join her against Prop. Now she joins you folk in these 'posting parties'.



i don't know where you get your information from, you sure have some wild ideas going on.  When did i refuse to join with you against anything?  We may have been on opposite sides of the fence in that thread, so you automatically make an assinine assumption like that?  First off, i am not against prop.  i might question the authenticity of her posts, that doesn't mean i am against her. 


May I direct your attention to a letter you sent August 29, 12:21 PM.

quote:

Continuing with Velvet's post:
If you remember correctly Bob, when you first came to CM i was quite friendly to you and gave you the benefit of the doubt, even made a post defending you. 


Perhaps you should re-read what you said in your letters dated Aug 26, 1PM, Aug. 29, 12:21PM, Sept. 1, 3:42PM, and Sept. 2, 2:09 PM.

You told me the names of several of the individuals whom you had targetted but with whom you now socialize.

It was not for me you posted. I was just an excuse for you to attack those you believed had wronged you and others in the past.

You were against them before "No Limits...", and then joined them against me after "No Limits...".

quote:

continuing with Velvet's post:
Seems that if people disagree with you, in your eyes they are somehow against you.  The last exchange we had in the medication thread you became very nasty and snarky calling me an armchair analyst and patronized me, did i return your unkindness with rude behavior to you, no i simply walked away from it. 


Your differences with me started in the "No Limits: How far would you go" thread.

You are speaking of "Partners on Behavioural Meds..." pg9, #165 (the end of a very long exchange between you and I where you ended with the patronizing: "What i find sad is that you will never truly know if it is "reality" that is depressing you or your skewed interpretation of it because of an imbalance in your brain's chemistry.").

You have also accused me of condoning abuse against women and claimed I was deceitful because I didn't agree with you (keywords for search: "rule of thumb")

One thing I'll say for you, Velvet, once you grab an idea you don't let go no matter how many facts you have to ignore to keep it.

quote:

continuing with Velvet's post:
The world does not revolve around you.  You keep tallys of such things as what position someone took on particular threads????  You truly need to get a life.  You disappoint me, i thought more of you then what you have shown me in the last week or so.  Good luck.


One need only look at what you've written above to see that you are keeping score in your own way, Velvet.

Am I to be condemned for having a better memory, or for being more honest about it?

< Message edited by Bobkgin -- 10/11/2007 3:35:26 AM >

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 217
RE: Machismo and BDSM - 10/11/2007 4:04:01 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		She was 'with them against you' and then 'with you against them'? My high schooler doesn't act that immature. My therapist might call this paranoia. I suggest that in either case you would do better not staying in a group of people you have nothing in common with, but go out into the real world and associate with real people. Try volunteering, that will get you out of your pity party.

(in reply to Bobkgin)
Profile   Post #: 218
RE: Machismo and BDSM - 10/11/2007 4:21:53 AM   
Cyntilating


Posts: 581
Joined: 6/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AEslaveM

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

Machismo is a self confident, self assured, poised man is sexy. Machismo is an arrogant, self absorbed, pompous man is disgusting. So, I guess it's not the suit, but the man who wears it.


i agree with this, too!

M


  I also agree....
 
re: the state of this thread
 
I was really enjoying this topic, and then it got derailed, once again.
 
I spent some years as a pre-school teacher and watched this similar dynamic play out time and time again amongst children who were trying to establish "their place" in the group.
 
I could always count on there being at least one child who was the passive-aggressive instigator.
He/She was content to just watch OTHERS rally for the leader/dominance, until it got quiet...everyone was playing nicely with their own toys.  It was then that she/he would become unsettled (that there was no "disturbance in the force") and would walk over and take the toy away from another child to create drama and activity.  He/She learned very quickly which children did nothing/or little ( complied ) with their toy being taken away, and which child would create the larger sense of chaos...by either the sublte struggle ( ie  biting  which would always draw the teacher into the scenario and create realllllll drama) or by outwardly struggling to hold tight to the toy and verbally create the maelstrom.
 
interesting that, as adults, some of us are still stuck in pre-school in the way we choose to communicate and inter-act with others.
 
I saw one person single-handedly derail this thread (with obvious intent,started the snowball).  Then others that just can't help but jump into the snowball as it rolls and grows.
 
Do we, as individuals, always have to be right?
When we stand firm on what we beleive, why can't that just be a statement of "our" facts and belief?.. why does that have to create a challenge? or  chaos?
 
why does it matter if someone "pokes" you ?  what makes you struggle for ownership of the toy?  Do you not realize that if you ignore "the poker"  he/she actions and angst will naturally be neutralized?  perhaps subconsciously you enjoy the chaos as well...?
 
and why does little joey/or joeysue  feel like he/she has to walk up and make the other child ( that IS known as the biter ) upset and riled up ??? 
 
just some thoughts roaming around in my head..
I suppose they are rhetorical questions, but then again, maybe not. 
 
finishing my coffee and then I am off to work.. The "ankle-biters" ( what I lovingly call toddlers) will be filling my day.
 
wishing you all a good day, with plenty of smiles.
 
 
 
 
 

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to AEslaveM)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: Machismo and BDSM - 10/11/2007 5:01:08 AM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyntilating

wishing you all a good day, with plenty of smiles.
  


::smile::

I've mentioned in mail that having learned to tame a three-year-old's tempter tantrums, I can certainly handle anything dished out here.

It's all about patience, serenity, and comprehension.


_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to Cyntilating)
Profile   Post #: 220
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