JackM1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
Okay the abortion debate has really disintergrated into just name calling and opinions. So I wanted to see if we couldget a better debate with some structured questions. If you want to vent about abortion please go to the abortion topic. If you want to try and actually explore the points, let's try here.
1) At what point does a fetus become an unborn infant that gains rights as a human?
2) The obvious reason for the majority of abortions is unwanted pregancy. How can the cause be treated?
3) If at a certain stage an unborn infant has rights, should the Mother be forced to carry full term?
4) How can a Mother be forced to carry a baby full term?
5) What happens to the infant if carried to full term, and the Mother does not want it?
There are some pretty intelligent people in this forum, even one's I do not like, so we must be able to have an intelligent debate on the 5 points above if everyone will refrain from flaming and address those five points. If anyone else has some other points they feel should be addressed, could you please quote the original 5 and then number your sequentially?
Orion
im gonna try to tackle all of those, so here goes nothing!
1)that really depends on whether you are going strictly on science or if you allow yourself to become emotional. i personally believe that when the heart and brain are BOTH developed, and that the nervous system is more or less complete, that they are a human. granted, this already follows the guidlines set up nationally; you cant abort a baby after the first trimester is over(and generally the later part of the third month is generaly considered too late). by then, most of the major organs and systems have already finished their primary development or have started. before that, its simply a ball of cells that is starting to take shape. it has no functional brain, it has no functional heart, it has no nervous system to feel pain; having an abortion at THAT time is the most humaine, because after that is has been proven that a fetus really can, does, and reacts to pain and stimuli such as light, sound and movement. this however, is a very clinical way to think of things...if you believe in every being having a soul, then technically it is a human from the point of conception, regardless of development because from that moment on it carries a soul.
2) educating people about birth controle....making condoms available at school...to be honest with you i think that they should have a program where every girl is put on the pill or some form of contraceptive. wont stop them from getting diseases, but hell...at least there wont be a baby in the mix too. also, there shouldnt be any of this bullshit "abstinence only" sex education...its stupid and a waste of valuable time. why vilafy contraceptives and only spend a minute going over the kinds and how to use them, and then the next 40 minutes on why its a BAD idea to have sex(news flash, as a student, i know for a fact that noone listens to that crap, and its always the kids who dont know any better who get themselves in trouble because they dont know about or know how to use contraceptives). i feel very strongly that we should perhaps focus a little less on what happens DURING pregnancy(and going over the same drugs over and over and over and over and over..), but rather the different ways to prevent it, the kinds that are available, where to get them and how to use them.
3) if the mother dillydallies too long and doesnt get an abortion within the first three months, im not sure what would suddenly change her mind after that. and breaking up with a boyfriend isnt a good reason...the signs were probably all there that it was going to happen anyway(not that most women realy want to see it, but hey). sure, there are some girls that dont know theyre pregnant until its almost too late, but generally you start to notice that SOMETHING is wrong with you miss your period 2-3 times, and start feeling exhausted/nauseous all the time, especially if you know you have been sexually active. then again, there is the freak occurance of the baby bulge being so small that sometimes full term pregnant women almost dont look pregnant at all, but i find it horseshit that you somehow manage to justify that squirming feeling in your gut as anything but alien and unusual. (this happened to a friend of a coworker of mine, she thought she was only a few months pregnant and suddenly she went into labor..go figure...i dont believe for a second that she didnt feel SOMETHING different, even if she didnt outwardly look too pregnant; which, btw..is apparently not as uncommon as you would think.) if the mother is stupid enough/undecisive enough that she misses the 3 MONTH deadline, then she shouldnt punish the life growing inside her for being unable to make up her mind.
4) this sort of goes with question 3, but technically, you cant force someone to carry a baby full term, not when there are options at the begining. like i said, after 3 months the fetus is generally developed, but getting bigger and more complex, and im not sure how someone can go to a doctors office and ask that they partially *give birth* to the baby only to have its brain sucked out...at that point, why not just have the baby when its viable and give it up for adoption? granted, there are some cases where the mother becomes ill from the pregnancy, but in those cases nature usually takes care of the problem itself and either induces labor or a miscarrage; either that or the doctor will go ahead and remove the fetus, and put them in the NNICU for a few months in the hopes that they will survive, so if not the baby then the mother will survive to have more children. there is NO other reason why a woman who is already that pregnant shouldnt carry that baby to full term, or at least until its considered viable and able to live outside the womb(which is give or take starting at around 30 weeks...thats still very early, but there have been babies born earlier that have survied. medicine has come far enough that we are able to keep premmies alive from such early ages that it would have been a death sentance not 5 years ago). if we're talking about a woman thats only a month pregnant, but she knows that she cant have the baby for what ever reason, then no..she shouldnt be FORCED into carrying the baby full term, but those reasons had better be something other than not being in a relationship or wanting to keep your figure for a few more years.
5) this is rather obvious..it gets put up for adoption. there are lots of options with this too; open adoption, closed adoption, adoption where you meet and chose the parents, and adoption where you simply leave the baby at the hospital or a haven. while heartbreaking, the option of open adoption is something that gaining popularity; in these you know the parents of your child and you can generally communicate with them and the child, there are some programs where the expecting mother can even chose the family that will raise her child, and be a part of that childs life even if she isnt the one completely supporting and raising them(this is especially good for teenagers or college students who dont quite want to let go, but cant possibly keep thier child). i cant imagine why anyone would abandon their baby, but it does happen, and there are safe havens all over the country and in every city for situations like these; there are some people who would rather just leave them in a ditch or at a park, but why cause that kind of suffering when you can anonymously abandon the baby at one of these centers and give them up completely(but in a place where you know they'll be safe).
to end this, i have a point id like answered; do you think, despite the prevelance of it in this day and age, that having a baby out of wedlock is still frowned upon? this can be directed at single mothers who either intentionally or unintentionally became pregnant, or teenagers.
another point: what of the fathers? do we hold the fathers responsible enough? or is it too easy for them to just claim that its not theirs and disapear?
on the same thread, what of the unequal treatment of pregnant girls in highschool? in some places, a pregnant girl is made to leave the school and either be home school or go to another facility all together; should this be the same for the father, since they too made a bad choice(if so, should said father have a paternity test to prove he is such, and should it be forced onto any student that the girl claims is the father)? should this be done at all, punishment for something they cant change and that is ultimately a punishment in itself?
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RE: The points of Abortion - 
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