RE: The points of Abortion

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RE: The points of Abortion - 10/10/2007 8:19:04 AM

OrionTheWolf

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Probably the 22 weeks, or the kid would be famous.

"
James Elgin Gill (born on 20 May 1987 in Ottawa, Canada) was the earliest premature baby in the world. He was 128 days premature (21 weeks and 5 days gestation) and weighed 1 lb. 6 oz. (624 g). He survived and is quite healthy.[10][11]
Amillia Taylor is also often cited as the most-premature baby.[12] She was born on 24 October 2006 in Miami, Florida, at 21 weeks and 6 days gestation.[13] At birth she was 9 inches (23 cm) long and weighed 10 ounces (283 grams).[12] She suffered digestive and respiratory problems, together with a brain hemorrhage. She was discharged from the Baptist Children's Hospital on 20 February 2007.[12]
"

quote:

ORIGINAL: freyjasdottir

Not mistaken but what may have been reported was an alternate possible gestation date. She had been given 3 different due dates because of issues with the size of her uterus not matching the sonograms. The 21 weeks 3 days was the youngest he may have been with 22 weeks being the oldest he could have been based on his size at both, he too was 1 lb 6 oz, smaller than the beanie baby bear that his first picture was taken with. Perhaps that child is only the first, not the earliest as he was burn 12 years sooner than my friend's son.

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RE: The points of Abortion - 10/10/2007 8:30:54 AM

OrionTheWolf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

Its ashame a human being is seen as a "choice" and that being against murdering a baby is considered "intolerant" I bet everyone of you typing away at your key boards are GLAD your mom didnt see you as a choice!

1) At what point does a fetus become an unborn infant that gains rights as a human?
I'm not sure about the laws os the land, meaning when the cut off is on killing the baby. In my opinion it should be conception.

Define exactly the point of conception. What are you using to base this on?

quote:

3) If at a certain stage an unborn infant has rights, should the Mother be forced to carry full term?
yes!

4) How can a Mother be forced to carry a baby full term?
I don't have an answer, but i think there should be something in place to protect the baby...because they cannot protect themself.

Prison hospital? Think about it now, if you feel they should be forced to do it, how exactly will you do this?

quote:

5) What happens to the infant if carried to full term, and the Mother does not want it?
Its called adoption....there are MANY wonderful people that cannot have childern of there own ...waiting lists are LONG and abortion is high...how sick is that?

If you look at the statistics, and we reduce abortion by 20%, and make those adoption babies, there will be very few adoption parents needing a child after about 7 years. So we would have babies without any parents. What do we do then?

Also, what do we do with the babies that have birth defects that make them unattractive to be adopted?

I ask these questions in all sincerity, because many people believe there are simple and easy solutions, but if you disect things out, follow the paths of some of these solutions, the outcomes are often just as ugly as what is occuring.

What I have found interesting in most abortion debates, on forums, that I have been involved in or read, is the lack of detailed answers to unwanted pregnancies. If unwanted pregnancies is the problem, then that would be where alot of focus should go, but for some reason it doesn't.

Orion

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RE: The points of Abortion - 10/10/2007 8:36:21 AM

Alumbrado

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quote:

I see a fetus as distinct from a human being. Alive, yes. Human, not yet.

A distintcion that courts have recognized in cases of coma, etc, when it comes to letting others terminate a life that cannot be sustained on its own.

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RE: The points of Abortion - 10/10/2007 9:20:22 AM

farglebargle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

So,.. ..you'd say that parents could kill their kids.. until they're like, eighteen?

reductio ad absurdum. But, not to let a pointless thread die, let me suggest that Dylan's "The Ballad of Hollis Brown" could provide some enlightenment.

I believe individuals are happier with their own mistakes, than with The Gubmint's Mistakes. Hell, what did the Mac Kid say in Die Hard 4.0? It took FEMA 5 days to get water to the Superdome?

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RE: The points of Abortion - 10/10/2007 9:33:10 AM

unownedkitty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freyjasdottir

The 21 weeks 3 days was the youngest he may have been with 22 weeks being the oldest he could have been based on his size at both, he too was 1 lb 6 oz, smaller than the beanie baby bear that his first picture was taken with. Perhaps that child is only the first, not the earliest as he was burn 12 years sooner than my friend's son.

hiya just thought i would make a comment here his size would have not been based on the weight as for him to be born at 21 weeks and to weigh 1 '6 is quite heavey my daughter born at 24 weeks weighed 1'2 and that was deemed quite small for her 24 weeks just MO nothing more nothing less but what ever age he was bron at at least he is alive and well today!

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RE: The points of Abortion - 10/10/2007 1:43:51 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Quick Response ( covering too much ground ).

The real issue is WHO OWNS THE CHILD.

If it is The State, then The State can tell the Mother what she can, or cannot do with The State's Property, The Child.

If it is The Mother, then The Mother has COMPLETE and UNRESTRICTED CONTROL over what she chooses to do with HER Property, The Child.

Now, some people are going to have a Knee Jerk reaction because, "Babies aren't property".

Well, I suggest telling a Mother that HER babies do not belong to her. I expect some disagreement.

That's what the Declaration of Independence means by being endowed by "our Creator" with certain unalienable rights.

"our Creator" is our Moms.

Interesting enough, and I take your point that a mother is responsible for her child's upbringing, but how do you justify the leap of faith to arrive at the conclusion that, as next of kin, she has the right to decide on life or death matters regarding her child?

By extenstion, your argument suggests that a woman has the right to kill her child at any point in the child's life; this is not a credible argument.

The child owns his/herself, the mother is simply responsible for guiding the child into adulthood. That doesn't make her the owner; it makes her responsible for the security of the child.

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Post #: 46

RE: The points of Abortion - 10/10/2007 2:25:46 PM

subtee

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quote:

By extenstion, your argument suggests that a woman has the right to kill her child at any point in the child's life; this is not a credible argument.

What?! Why not? Dude, I have teenagers...

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Post #: 47