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RE: RE:Interracial D/s relationships:How do we really f... - 10/9/2007 3:31:14 PM   
MsExperiment


Posts: 4
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

I would love to include a personal rant about "race-play" ("white man, beat me and call me Nigger"), but I'll save that for my own post.



actually that post is already out there, just saw it yesterday....lol

(in reply to Blaakmaan)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: RE:Interracial D/s relationships:How do we really f... - 10/9/2007 3:42:53 PM   
Pulpsmack


Posts: 394
Joined: 4/15/2004
From: Louisiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

If the only way people can discuss this is to boil it down to "personal preference," then why bother talking about it?


Nail on the head. This is the best you can boil the subject down to (constructively) and it thus becomes no more special than guys with moustaches, large women, etc.



quote:

A personal "preference" for one racial group over another (particularly for another racial group over one's own) is not the same as a personal preference for short over tall; blonde over brunette; fat over skinny, or any other dichotomy in America.

Race is unique.  It's simply different.


Your point ranges from spot on to complete crap, depending on the beholder. Clearly it is important/special to YOU, not so much to another, (and more important to others than it is to you).


quote:

People aren't and haven't been oppressed (disadvantaged, maybe, but not oppressed) because they were short, tall, blonde, brunette, skinny, or fat.



But they have been because they believed in another sect of Christianity, or because they were Christian, or they weren’t, or because they were from another country (of like race) or because they weren't. Your attempt to make the color special also opens the door to making it as commonplace as those other exercises of human nature.

quote:

It's one thing to say "It's my preference, so leave me alone about it," which doesn't advance the discussion much.  But saying a racial preference is like a preference for a hair color is just incorrect.


The problem when you take "black/white/yellow/red/brown" beyond hair, skin, and features, you are invariably injecting stereotypical features into the equation, which can go to the extreme of racism, regardless of which side you perceive the issue.

Black is hair, skin, features. Anything else is ethnic/cultural/social baggage that you inject into it. What is "black" (or black enough)? Take your template of all things a "black man" is and is not... good or bad. Then press that template over a black man born and raised in England, or West Africa, and you will find the fit is ridiculous.

If I don't like black as a preference, it is because I don't like the contrast of the skin... I don't like the stereotypical features like the lips, nose, and cheeks which are sculpted differently than mine. It makes no difference where they come from... they are not attractive to my senses.

If I don't like "black", then that is going to be some fabricated mish-mash of what a black (wo)man is in America today, based on history, culture, socio-economic factors etc. It means that a group infused with certain attitudes, beliefs, and mannerisms don't appeal to me. This is preference as well, although one may make the argument (right or wrong) that it may be more nefarious. So, if "black" is this collection of attitudes, beliefs, and mannerisms that clash with my preferences, then I wouldn't have the same problems with a young lady from England, or West Africa. Similarly, I would have a problem with people who pick up the standard of "blackness" and pantomime it whether they are white, hispanic, asian, etc.

Finally, I may not like both black or "black", in that I don't like the my perceived American cultural representation of what "black" is, nor do I like the physical attributes that accompany the black race... an infusion of my last two paragraphs.

Point being, at least one of these is pure preference, and the other two could be either a coincidental pure preference, a mixed issue, or something deeper. But your dismissal of this as "preference only" is really betraying your emotional views on the subject. Yes black/"black" CAN BE and IS about something more than pigment and folicles, but that does not mean that it MUST BE by any means. It also CAN BE and IS about pigment and folicle alone.  

So the choice boils down to discuss this as a preference (which begs the question "why bother, other than some curiosity") or discuss this as something deeper by infusing stereotypes, racism and the controversy that accompanies this on both sides, which is never done productively in the first place.

< Message edited by Pulpsmack -- 10/9/2007 3:52:40 PM >

(in reply to Blaakmaan)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: RE:Interracial D/s relationships:How do we really f... - 10/9/2007 3:53:38 PM   
ELUSIVE1


Posts: 536
Joined: 9/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

I've only been a member of this site for a few months at the most, but in that brief period of time, I think I've already learned that it is pretty difficult to have a real discussion of issues that touch on race (directly or tangentially) here.

I suppose that's not so surprising.  After all, the people on this site, including me, are just a microcosm of our society at large.  Even though we may feel or believe that we are different somehow than the rest of the society (i.e., more honest, more moral, more open, etc.), I think that the only thing that we really are "more" of than the rest of the society is more accepting of each other's individual kinks.  Other than that, we are conservative and liberal, smart and not-so-smart, open-minded and close-minded, in pretty much the same proportions as the rest of the society, even if we see ourselves otherwise.

But, when racial issues arise on the forums, pretty much all you will hear, in my experience, is "Color makes no difference to me," "I dont' care about color--I care about the individual," or "I don't see color," which I personally find to be--how shall I say it?--less than candid.

How does race play itself out here?  In my humble (or not so humble) opinion, there are more opportunities here for whites than blacks.  That is, in some sense, a result of the fact that there are so many more whites here than blacks.  But I think that part of the reason that there are so many more whites here than blacks is the fact that there are more opportunities here for whites than blacks.

Just as an example:  Some significant portion (and I don't mean some small portion) of the black female submissives here are specifically looking for white male Doms (I have no idea what the black male submissives are looking for, because I don't read their profiles).  On the other hand, I can't say that I've seen a significant portion of the white female submissives on here that are specifically looking for black male Doms.  So, it seems to me that white male Doms have more submissives to choose from (white female and black female submissives)--and therefore more opportunities--than black male Doms do.

So, how do I feel about interracial D/s relationships?  I'd like to say that "I don't see color," but that would be a lie.  I do.  I recognize that racial differences play a large part in the sexual fantasies of many people, so it isn't surprising that racial differences are a big turn-on for a lot of people on this site, and it isn't surprising that they want to explore that sexual dynamic in their D/s relationships.

On the other hand, I also think that the ordinary power relationships of the vanilla society play themselves out in the D/s community, and I think that disadvantages black people here.  Many, I'm sure, will disagree with that position.

If it were truly a matter of simple individual preference, and nothing else, that didn't systematically disadvantage one group in relation to another, I can't say that I'd care at all.  But I don't think it is actually that way.  So, I guess I do care.

I would love to include a personal rant about "race-play" ("white man, beat me and call me Nigger"), but I'll save that for my own post.



My first Master was a hot  doctor...and to be honest, it was always HIM that brought up race, not others with in our circle of lifestyle friends....I would make plans for the weekend, and he would actually ask me "did you tell them that I am black?" to which I would quickly respond, 'No, and I didn't mention that I am white either"...people that WANT to play the 'race card' always will, the rest of us will simply live and let live...I never ask anyone what their skin color or ethnicity is , we all bleed red...I DO ask about their education and upbringing though...SOME THINGS I consider REALLY important...those more often than not determine attitudes and compatablility

_____________________________

"Words have no power to impress the mind without the exquisite horror of their reality"

*Poe
http://alt.com/blog/ELUSIVE1NC
http://users.adultspace.com/ELUSIVE1NC/


(in reply to Blaakmaan)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: RE:Interracial D/s relationships:How do we really f... - 10/9/2007 3:54:22 PM   
ADom442


Posts: 34
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirEbonyPhoenix
Having read a recent thread about White Doms and black subs, I have to ask this question:When it comes to interrracial D/s relationships, particuarly for those who are in one or seek to be in one, how do we really feel about them?

I'm not sure I can address the implicit questions that may be lurking in your opening post, but as a white Dom with a black submissive partner, I can at least add in the sense of being a survey datum.

While I do think dark skin is attractive, it's the mental connection I can feel with black women that motivates me to be in a relationship with a black submissive.  Because of my heritage, I find that black women understand me more than most white women, and eventually, we all stop the kinkiness for at least a bit, and then it's nice to be able to talk and have a real connection.

A quick reference to race play because the subject of interracial D/s or M/s relationships almost demands that the subject be addressed:  I don't do it, and have no interest in it.  If I was with a partner who found it a tremendous turn-on, then I might consider exploring it, but for me, it would be the same as trying to do "height play" or "eye color play."  My point is that I couldn't get into "Come over here, you TALL woman" or "Tell me you're my BROWN EYED submissive."  Yes, maybe she was tall or had brown eyes, but so??

I have found that many black Dominants and submissives have a problem with us being together.  The black Dominants seem to be threatened at some level by our relationship.  She tells me she hears comments like "What can a white man do for (to) you that I can't?"  From the black submissives who have a problem with us, it's that they can't get past the feeling that they would be traitorous to their people to submit to a white man.  Experiences go deep, and they can't get past the idea that they will NEVER submit to someone who looks like people who have made them the target of bigotry. 

Finally, my observation is that there are many white submissives who long for a black Dominant, but VERY few black submissives who would consider a relationship with a white Dominant for the reasons I explained above.

Did I address some of your questions?

A Dom



_____________________________

It is the business of the very few to be independent; it is a privilege of the strong. And whoever attempts it ... proves that he is probably not only strong, but also daring beyond measure.
- Nietzsche

(in reply to SirEbonyPhoenix)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: RE:Interracial D/s relationships:How do we really f... - 10/9/2007 4:06:56 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

If the only way people can discuss this is to boil it down to "personal preference," then why bother talking about it?

A personal "preference" for one racial group over another (particularly for another racial group over one's own) is not the same as a personal preference for short over tall; blonde over brunette; fat over skinny, or any other dichotomy in America.

Race is unique.  It's simply different.

People aren't and haven't been oppressed (disadvantaged, maybe, but not oppressed) because they were short, tall, blonde, brunette, skinny, or fat.

It's one thing to say "It's my preference, so leave me alone about it," which doesn't advance the discussion much.  But saying a racial preference is like a preference for a hair color is just incorrect.



live as a fat chick in this country for a few years and get back to me............

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Blaakmaan)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: RE:Interracial D/s relationships:How do we really f... - 10/9/2007 4:45:57 PM   
Blaakmaan


Posts: 374
Joined: 5/21/2007
Status: offline 		"Theoretical non sense," huh?  If you say so.

First, I don't recall saying that I had a "problem finding someone on here."

Second, any submissive who reads my profile knows I'm married.  There's no reason for me to believe that black female submissives react to that fact any differently than white female submissives do.  Some white female submissives have a problem with it, some don't.  Some black female submissives have a problem with it, some don't.

So, the fact that I'm married doesn't explain anything regarding the racial dynamic I was referring to in my prior post.

I know that the fact that I'm married is a barrier for some women submissives, but so, I believe, is the fact that I'm black.

That's my experience and my belief, and when I said so I wasn't "lashing outward" at anybody!  I gave my opinion and the reason I hold that opinion.  Isn't that what the forums are for???

By the way, for the record, I'm not looking a male submissive.  And what, exactly, is "a male of any gender"???

(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: RE:Interracial D/s relationships:How do we really f... - 10/9/2007 4:54:22 PM   
flowspen


Posts: 133
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Memphis
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

I hope that was tongue-in-cheek!

I hardly think that a preference for X-Box over Playstation even remotely compares to uniformly preferring a white mistress over a black one.

I, for one, have such a problem with black people who seek out whites for initimacy, love, affection, friendship or whatever to the exclusion of other blacks.  Inherent in such a position is the theory or belief that somehow whites possess something (usually something of value) that blacks don't.  Uniformly favoring whites over blacks in the belief that whites are somehow "better" (better Doms, better Masters, better submissives, better Mistresses, or whatever) is, to me, racist, pure and simple!

If an employer hired an all-white workforce because hiring whites was his "preference," he'd be just as liable for racially discriminatory hiring as if his hiring was motivated by the rankest racism.  And he should be.





i can understand how you feel and yes it was tongue and cheek.  it does however reflect "preferences" on another level.  i never said that i wanted to submit to a White Woman because she is "better" than a black woman.  What i said was that my issues went back to childhood and with how i was raised and who i was raised around.  it isn't an issue of one being over or better.  Where i was raised at it was 90-95 percent white opposed being raised in areas that were more mixed or more of another race.  So my experiences and what i was use to was more closer to the white culture than any other culture.  There were times where i tried to fit into my own community and was rejected because of how i talked, what music listened too, how i dressed.  i was told that "black" people dont do what i do.  i didn't let that stop me though, even though it took until i was an adult that certain communities were able to accept me for me. 

i dont say this to offend you or anyone else just speaking from my truth and experience from living here in America.  My issue was that i had to act a certain way in order to be considered "black" by my own community.  That my blackness was the sum of how i talked, walked and what i took an interest in instead of what was inside me or my heart.  My issue was everyone who told me i wasn't black and yet they didn't participate in civil rights marches, didn't mentor minority children, didn't get involved in community or even politics in an effort to improve life for people of color and yet i was called an uncle tom.  it was the white culture who purely accepted me for who i was regardless of my skin color. 

Now alot has changed but still today people of color even at work say to me, why do you talk white.  Why do i have to prove that i am black to other people of color?  Why is it that when i have a preference it is considered to be wrong?  i worked very hard undoing my thoughts on all this and opening myself up yet once again in allowing myself to be more open minded about who i am willing to submit too.  Remember this it is a two way street because people of color also has to realize there is more than one way to being black.

flow~

(in reply to Blaakmaan)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: RE:Interracial D/s relationships:How do we really f... - 10/9/2007 5:11:42 PM   
ADom442


Posts: 34
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan
I, for one, have such a problem with black people who seek out whites for initimacy, love, affection, friendship or whatever to the exclusion of other blacks.  Inherent in such a position is the theory or belief that somehow whites possess something (usually something of value) that blacks don't.  Uniformly favoring whites over blacks in the belief that whites are somehow "better" (better Doms, better Masters, better submissives, better Mistresses, or whatever) is, to me, racist, pure and simple!


It may be that what the white person possesses that the black person seeks is independence.  One thing I value in a person (whether dominant, submissive, or vanilla) is a willingness to think for themselves.  Being willing to be first yourself instead of trying to fit into whatever racial or cultural group you were born into is something I value, and so for me, a black woman who's willing to date outside her race gets my attention.  I suspect that the complement to that is also true for independently thinking black women.  It may not be that they prefer white men, it could be that they prefer men who are independent thinkers.

A Dom

_____________________________

It is the business of the very few to be independent; it is a privilege of the strong. And whoever attempts it ... proves that he is probably not only strong, but also daring beyond measure.
- Nietzsche

(in reply to Blaakmaan)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: RE:Interracial D/s relationships:How do we really f... - 10/9/2007 5:22:59 PM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		And so it continues, there is no reason to bring up this issue any longer.   It never ends.  It is 2007 and we are all basically cannot look at each other without looking at the color of our skin. 
For the African American wanting a white Dom/me to call them racial names, don't look at me.  Some may be willing to do that, but soon as someone does that down in this area, we will be reported to the NAACP. Dang it, I broke my promise to myself.  Slaps my face.


Regards, MissSCD




< Message edited by MissSCD -- 10/9/2007 5:23:55 PM >

(in reply to ADom442)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: RE:Interracial D/s relationships:How do we really f... - 10/9/2007 5:29:55 PM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		actually it comes down to...does it make them hot and horny? then who the fuck am i to tell them that its bad or wrong to want it?

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to MissSCD)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: RE:Interracial D/s relationships:How do we really f... - 10/9/2007 6:09:57 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		anytime anyone talkes about race they or using the race card so to speak they have a problem. on either side of the fence. I have dated all kinds as a conservitive perv it is in my opionion.. do what ever you want as long as it is something that is not harmful or hurtful then ok and there ya go

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: RE:Interracial D/s relationships:How do we really f... - 10/9/2007 6:24:12 PM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

I, for one, have such a problem with black people who seek out whites for initimacy, love, affection, friendship or whatever to the exclusion of other blacks.  Inherent in such a position is the theory or belief that somehow whites possess something (usually something of value) that blacks don't.  Uniformly favoring whites over blacks in the belief that whites are somehow "better" (better Doms, better Masters, better submissives, better Mistresses, or whatever) is, to me, racist, pure and simple!


i feel this was almost directed specifically towards me since i do prefer white over black men. white men do possess sometthing over the general black male population.  in my experience, black men did not offer what i was seeking in a relationship and goals in life. i've found them not being compatitable on many levels with me and they likewise found me "too white" for them to handle because i'm not the average, stereotypical ghetto chick who's loud and obnoxious, drinks and smokes.

with white men, i've found i can converse intelligently from the arts to music to politics without stooping below someone else's level or resorting to the slangspeak of the day.  i do find making friends with them easier than i would with any black person. and as fall as love, intimacy, etc goes - yes they do understand what i need. 

as i said before, if that makes me a racist against my own race - so be it.


_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...


...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

(in reply to Blaakmaan)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: RE:Interracial D/s relationships:How do we really f... - 10/9/2007 6:33:52 PM   
SirEbonyPhoenix


Posts: 195
Joined: 8/29/2006
From: My realm in Central Indiana (you guess where :P)
Status: offline 		I believe that you did and for that I say thank you for your perspective. :)

_____________________________

"If it takes one to know one, then you must be one."

(in reply to ADom442)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: RE:Interracial D/s relationships:How do we really f... - 10/9/2007 6:47:37 PM   
SirEbonyPhoenix


Posts: 195
Joined: 8/29/2006
From: My realm in Central Indiana (you guess where :P)
Status: offline 		I agree with what you are saying and to add to this, what I find much more appealing than the color of another person's skin (even though my first preference is for a submissive/slave of color) is their honesty, personality, level of experience and willingness to submit (and not necessarily in that order). Heck, during the course of my journey, I usually scene with white submissives/slaves and so far, there have been no problems as far as playing with them goes (given that I sometimes do so with their Dom/Master). It's like the old saying, "Different strokes for differnt folks." :)

_____________________________

"If it takes one to know one, then you must be one."

(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: RE:Interracial D/s relationships:How do we really f... - 10/9/2007 6:56:09 PM   
goddessAVA


Posts: 221
Joined: 11/2/2006
Status: offline 		hey baby-you rock!  Anyway, enough of the sexual tension..........It is so easy to say to each his own, I don't see color or I will fall for whoever comes my way but when it gets down to brass tacks-the family members who will never speak to you, the stares, the waiters who always try to seat you seperately, well not everyone is really up for the task.  Pretending that interracial, in bdsm or otherwise, will not raise eyebrows at the least, is pure naivete' .  There are cultural differences, large amounts of intolerance, overt or unconcious from black and white people as well as internalized racism to deal with.  You need to be very strong in your identity and love for one another and it needs to be based on some real shared history, ideas, values not the novelity of color difference........had my ex not become a right wing born again, we would still be together today, he catering to all my needs out of love........10 years together taught me alot about what it's like to be a black man in our culture and what our children had we had them would have to go through.........

_____________________________

Philadelphia's premier Enema Nurse
cleaning out America's assholes one at a time

(in reply to flowspen)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: RE:Interracial D/s relationships:How do we really f... - 10/9/2007 7:07:08 PM   
OnyxGoddess


Posts: 242
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		Why do we always have to do the black and white thing?  There are more "other" interracial mixes than there are black and white.  Can we get someone on here doing the Mexican Italian thing or the French Russian thing?  Shyza.  Hell, any OTHER racial mix.  I don't care.  Long as he is willing and I'm attracted the skin tone is like the eye color...just part of their genetic makeup.  My preference is tall men with muscles.  Your color means dick.

(in reply to goddessAVA)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: RE:Interracial D/s relationships:How do we really f... - 10/9/2007 7:18:44 PM   
sheandi


Posts: 2
Status: offline
I have to like the person, no matter what the skin color may be. Pretty simple when you think about it.

(in reply to SirEbonyPhoenix)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: RE:Interracial D/s relationships:How do we really f... - 10/9/2007 7:28:25 PM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		i wish i was purple skinned...like this color purple...and had red hair like brick red, naturally....and irredescent eyes...they don't have a font color for that....

and then i would be really unique...i like being unique...


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to sheandi)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: RE:Interracial D/s relationships:How do we really f... - 10/9/2007 7:42:51 PM   
DocRudy


Posts: 153
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline 		To many, myself included, race is a non-issue. I am not turned off by a particular skin color, yet nothing about it turns me on, either.

General attractiveness is what catches my eye more than skin color.

-DR

(in reply to SirEbonyPhoenix)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: RE:Interracial D/s relationships:How do we really f... - 10/9/2007 7:49:49 PM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		Hey:

I saw a young girl at Wal-Mart today applying for a job.  Her hair was bright pink with a navy blue pony tail.  She is probably the new District Manager, lol.

Regards, MissSCD

Oh, and I am Southern American and my slave is Italian/Native American.  Mean combination huh?


(in reply to DocRudy)
Profile   Post #: 60
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