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RE: An open mind..... - 10/9/2007 10:55:58 AM   
heartfeltsub


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The problem, not that i agree with the position that i am about to comment on, is that personal experience is not considered to be conclusive evidence and therefore no worth listening to, to some people. While it might not be documented and researched evidence, personal experience, in my opinion, is well worth listening to as a source of additional points of view.

heartfelt


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RE: An open mind..... - 10/9/2007 10:57:32 AM   
breatheasone


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quote:

personal experience, in my opinion, is well worth listening to as a source of additional points of view.

QFT


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RE: An open mind..... - 10/9/2007 11:06:22 AM   
Bobkgin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

The problem, not that i agree with the position that i am about to comment on, is that personal experience is not considered to be conclusive evidence and therefore no worth listening to, to some people. While it might not be documented and researched evidence, personal experience, in my opinion, is well worth listening to as a source of additional points of view.

heartfelt



I agree.

But it is also important to keep in mind that personal experience as relayed through a public medium is not necessarily accurate, and certainly is subjective, with all the potential problems inherent with being too subjective.

Unless I can verify the information, I cannot rule out the possibility errors were made in the reporting of it.

Thus it is Indicative, but not Conclusive evidence that the opinion stated is one to be chosen as fact.

Most of the threads I read have some people arguing one way, and other people contradicting the first group. When opinions contradict, whose opinion should be chosen as the "right" one?

If the majority says the world is flat, should I believe them?

If the majority are bigotted against XYZ, should I believe them when they speak of XYZ?

These are some of the reasons why I do not treat an opinion as Conclusive Evidence. All an opinion demonstrates is that this is what the opinion-holder believes (and that does not account for deliberate deception, which also occurs in some people).


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RE: An open mind..... - 10/9/2007 11:15:33 AM   
flowspen


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The fact that you can rethink something and see another way in it and then even admit that Your first thought wasn't the most correct thought shows that you are open minded.  Doesn't it?

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RE: An open mind..... - 10/9/2007 11:17:00 AM   
breatheasone


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Ok...I'm gonna expand on my OP just a speck. When I 1st learned of Daddy/daughter relationships I was appalled...I thought it was gross and awful. I thought it wreaked of pseudo incest and pedophilia. As I learned more by reading a thread about it I came to realize it was nothing like I had perceived it...and that it was in fact a nurturing....loving way to communicate both parties needs and desires.

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RE: An open mind..... - 10/9/2007 11:28:18 AM   
heartfeltsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

The problem, not that i agree with the position that i am about to comment on, is that personal experience is not considered to be conclusive evidence and therefore no worth listening to, to some people. While it might not be documented and researched evidence, personal experience, in my opinion, is well worth listening to as a source of additional points of view.

heartfelt



I agree.

But it is also important to keep in mind that personal experience as relayed through a public medium is not necessarily accurate, and certainly is subjective, with all the potential problems inherent with being too subjective.

Unless I can verify the information, I cannot rule out the possibility errors were made in the reporting of it.

Thus it is Indicative, but not Conclusive evidence that the opinion stated is one to be chosen as fact.

Most of the threads I read have some people arguing one way, and other people contradicting the first group. When opinions contradict, whose opinion should be chosen as the "right" one?

If the majority says the world is flat, should I believe them?

If the majority are bigotted against XYZ, should I believe them when they speak of XYZ?

These are some of the reasons why I do not treat an opinion as Conclusive Evidence. All an opinion demonstrates is that this is what the opinion-holder believes (and that does not account for deliberate deception, which also occurs in some people).



Can feel myself being sucked into a potentially endless debate even as i type. No where did i say that opinions should be considered as conclusive evidence, and i am well aware that even the most well-meaning individual can pass on their personal observations in an inaccurate manner, colored by any number of things. In fact, i am not sure if the realm of human experience can ever be considered conclusive evidence, even though it is often used as the basis of scientific research.

However, even in a court of law, where it has been documented by many studies (no, i'm not citing any of them here) that eye-witness testimonies are far less reliable than forensic evidence, eye-witness testimony can create a preponderous of evidence of someone's guilt or innocence. i am not so arrogant an individual that if most everyone i ask about a certain subject gives personal experience that flies in the face of my current stance on the topic that i won't take what they say into account and conclude that my current stance may not be the whole picture and that i might need to incorporate some additional ideas into my viewpoint.

That to me is the essence of an open mind, the ability, the willingness to admit that i may not know everything, that i may not be right about everything and that others have information and knowledge that i might not currently possess, and to do so not just in word but also in deed.  And then based on the input of that additional information, i am willing to consider if my stance needs to be adjusted. Receiving conflicting information does not necessitate a changing of my position, but it does necessitate, at least for me, the need to consider if my position is well founded.


* Edited to add an additional thought.
heartfelt

< Message edited by heartfeltsub -- 10/9/2007 11:33:00 AM >


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RE: An open mind..... - 10/9/2007 11:35:22 AM   
velvetears


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Well said heartfelt    

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RE: An open mind..... - 10/9/2007 11:38:36 AM   
heartfeltsub


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Thank you velvetears

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Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

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RE: An open mind..... - 10/9/2007 11:39:59 AM   
velvetears


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If everything has to fall in the realm of conclusive/inconclusive proof then i think your world is very black and white - right/wrong, true/not true etc.... which imo is not conducive to having an open mind. 

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RE: An open mind..... - 10/9/2007 11:50:17 AM   
breatheasone


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I am a very black/white...right/wrong....true/false, type person... My Master has, and is taking great pleasure in beating that out of me.... 

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RE: An open mind..... - 10/9/2007 11:51:42 AM   
velvetears


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what fun!   

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RE: An open mind..... - 10/9/2007 12:00:32 PM   
breatheasone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

what fun!   

Agreed...I expand my mind and get some beatings....LOL


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RE: An open mind..... - 10/9/2007 12:10:03 PM   
amiciaN


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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

I am a very black/white...right/wrong....true/false, type person... My Master has, and is taking great pleasure in beating that out of me.... 


It's funny, but my Master NChaka is helping me do the opposite.  It is His ownership of me that gives clarity and definition to what has always been an overwhelming array of shades of gray.  I write to Him most nights and recently I told Him that it felt like the path of my life was following along the mountain tops, with all the richness, variety and wonder of life spread out before me in a vast, panoramic view.  I hope to spend the rest of my life exploring those vistas, safely led by my Master's expert guidance.

NChaka's amicia, who is a bit sentimental, because NChaka collared her 2 years ago tomorrow. 

I have never been lifted so high as when I kneel at His feet.

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RE: An open mind..... - 10/9/2007 12:11:45 PM   
velvetears


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Congrats on your anniversary amiciaN 

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RE: An open mind..... - 10/9/2007 12:17:04 PM   
Mercnbeth


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this slave tries to help folks by offering her experiences when they insist on generalities, stereotypes and all the "book-learnin'" that has closed their minds.
 
negating another's experience, because you have never experienced it, or expecting their reality to be the same as yours is closed-minded.
 
we are all unique individuals.
 
this slave was trained early on to expect any husband or partner to nurture, guide, protect and provide for and therefore never felt the urge to seek a "Daddy" and was quite frankly just as shocked as many are when they first learn of the existence of such relationships...however, this slave grew to understand that there are all sorts of fulfilling relationships out there, just as there are all sorts of folks seeking relationships of different sorts and it is NOT this slave's place to judge or demean them, just because it isn't something that resonates for her.

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RE: An open mind..... - 10/9/2007 12:21:09 PM   
iammachine


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I would like to think that I am rather open minded. I tend come across strongly, so others don't always see or believe that, but for as passionate as I may seem (mostly I'm just animated) or as much as I may rant (I can rant about anything, and frequently do about nonsense, like breaking down why cheesecake is really a pie...) I'm always aware that there are views that are different from my own and I accept and respect them. I am very much a logic monkey (imagine that... iammachine, eh?) and I see little point in getting worked up over unavoidable differences.

When it comes to a lot of things, I really don't give a damn about being right, I just care if my right to my own personal views is being respected. My rights end where another's begin, and vice versa. When I feel those rights are being violated, is when you will see me state a final conclusion and walk away. If that line has been crossed, odds are things are toeing if not having already crossed the line into being personal, and I don't find that conducive to discussion.

To be honest, I hate being proven right more than being proven wrong.  Being proven wrong means I get to learn something, and maybe even grow. Being proven right often means the discussion probably shouldn't have been neccessary.

So in short, I'm pretty open minded about immaterial things - thoughts, views, perspectives, opinions, things that are subjective and cannot be quantified as right/wrong, true/false, they are things that simply are. When it comes to things that can scientifically/empirically be proven (2 + 2 = 4) or are concrete and verifiable (I am 5'6" tall) there's really no room for interpretation, it is or it isn't. Facts are black and white, the rest of the world is some shade of gray. Given that, to me, it's pretty easy to be open minded about how people may perceive some shade.


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RE: An open mind..... - 10/9/2007 12:22:58 PM   
amiciaN


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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

Congrats on your anniversary amiciaN 


Thanks! 

NChaka's amicia, who is resisting the urge to gush about her Master

I have never been lifted so high as when I kneel at His feet.

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RE: An open mind..... - 10/9/2007 12:37:54 PM   
Prinsexx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

.....I mean REALLY righ..an open mind is hard...and sometimes one has to FORCE their mind "open" eh?


yes...four things for now lol that this has made me tink about
1. the training to become a person-centred therapist is the most difficult one...as it's about de-training really I mean it's about how to be deeply empathic with another
2 closed mindedness was for me (as I am hoping I am open minded ) was like living trapped inside my own opinion, my own  world, my ow n pain and  projections: asking for other people's opinions when I need help is one thing but acting on that input requires something else

3. being in touch with who I am and my needs in intimacy has taught me a great deal about being centred on another person otherwise my needs to be loved, my needs to belong and my intimacy/sexual needs don't get fulfilled
4. open mindedness for me is in the now especially those momenst which force me into the now...those moments when reality isn't what iwas expecting....momenst which force me to really understand that there's a YOU over there...and billions of YOUS out there all of whom have a equal share and right to consciousness and to existance outside of my consciousness...it's a weird moment to describe.......
XXX

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RE: An open mind..... - 10/9/2007 12:40:02 PM   
chellekitty


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on the complete opposite side....i've seen people with mind's so open their brain's fall out.................

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RE: An open mind..... - 10/9/2007 12:44:27 PM   
Prinsexx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

I am a very black/white...right/wrong....true/false, type person... My Master has, and is taking great pleasure in beating that out of me.... 


Yes I got the hardest whack from a cane I have evr ever had yesterday.......that opened my mind quite nicely indeed every time I have tried to sit down today has reminded me what a know-it-all I can often be.....



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