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RE: Has disobedience ever caused the end? - 10/10/2007 10:57:41 AM   
leakylee


Posts: 747
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		the only time that i have willfully disobeyed was to end my last relationship. the trust was gone. the respect was shredded. i was seeing base elements of myself that utterly shamed me, yet he continuely denied my release. so i purposely set out and did the one thing that i knew would garuntee it. when owned my a tat artist, getting peirced by someone else is a caridinal sin.

it might have been wrong, but it was that or my sanity. and that is questionable enough at times..

lee

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RE: Has disobedience ever caused the end? - 10/10/2007 11:15:36 AM   
LDRandAstarte


Posts: 504
Joined: 12/31/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, Lying, if you lie to me, I can never believe another word you say, so there is no point in going on, just go away!

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RE: Has disobedience ever caused the end? - 10/10/2007 12:51:53 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Following the theme of obedience, I'm curious.

How many folks have had established (3+ months) relationships (not just collars) that ended because one instruction, order, or rule wasn't obeyed.  I would prefer the question to reflect D/s rules; "I was released because I cheated on him, and that broke a 'no cheating' rule" isn't really what I have in mind here.

The fear of 'blind' or absolute obedience seems to stem from concerns that the dominant might give an instruction the submissive is unwilling or unable to comply; and that the dominant is then empowered and even obligated to terminate the relationship (as if he had an obligation to stay in a relationship he otherwise didn't enjoy, or couldn't choose to stay with a disobedient submissive?)

So that's where the question comes from; has disobedience or refusal to comply with an instruction in an otherwise healthy, established relationship caused the end of your relationship?

Stephan


No. There isn't the remotest chance that I will always obey, either. The death knell for my relationship would be to challenge his authority to deal with it.  If I disobeyed because I couldn't give a shit what he thought and lacked respect for HIM, it would be a major problem.

agirl

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RE: Has disobedience ever caused the end? - 10/10/2007 12:52:26 PM   
Cyntilating


Posts: 581
Joined: 6/19/2007
Status: offline 		Stephann
 
  My immediate response was going to be, " no, never have and never will because I am not willfully disobedient"..
  Then I read other posts and they suggested other , not so literal, definition, and so have rethought my response.

I suppose I have.

My first relationship within bdsm lifestyle was with a man who made it clear to me upfront that there were definate boundaries to our feelings and emotions towards one another.  I was there to learn and experience but that he was not offering me a Ds relationship.
( He was a top, which was the reason I sought him out..)

Not understanding where the physical bdsm aspect would eventually lead my emotions and feelings> I became attached.
Then needy  because of his (clearly defined boundaries and dynamics) lack of emotions towards me.
I failed to keep up my part of our agreement re: emotional desires and feelings for him.
He released me. ( from our contract)
Although at the time, felt like the worst thing that could have happened and was traumatic>  I did learn something very valuable..
I am not a bottom.
So, was able to take the experience of that and I learned from it.
Knew more about what was right for me the next time.

The next relationship would be the relationship I am in now, and have been for the last 10 years. 

< Message edited by Cyntilating -- 10/10/2007 12:54:49 PM >

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RE: Has disobedience ever caused the end? - 10/10/2007 1:03:08 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		The worst I'd done was remand a collar for a while; not just punishment, but probation as well.  She had failed to observe a common and important rule; nothing like cheating, but still.

She had failed to act in my absense according to rules I left behind.  She didn't forget; it was deliberate due to her own reasonings at the time.  Since she didn't directly defy in me as if I had told her to do it (there was no "No, I won't"), I guess I found it to be okay not to destroy the collar.  So she went on probation.

The probation did lead to the collar being taken away, though.  I had reconsidered things during that time and decided to end it.  But the single disobidient action wasn't the entire cause of this decision.

Edit:
I think it's important to note that I believe I would remove a collar for direct disobidience ("No, I won't"-sort of thing).  I just haven't encountered it before in a 3+ month relationship.  I have had it happen with what I call "trial collars"- where the potential slave has demonstrated reason to be a canidate for a collar, but not yet proven being worth it.  All such trials were immediately concluded as inviable, though that isn't quite the same as revoking a real collar; trial collars are, by their very nature, expendable.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 10/10/2007 1:08:47 PM >

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RE: Has disobedience ever caused the end? - 10/10/2007 1:07:48 PM   
missturbation


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quote:

has disobedience or refusal to comply with an instruction in an otherwise healthy, established relationship caused the end of your relationship?


No, but it could.
Repeated unacceptable behaviour would end my relationship.

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RE: Has disobedience ever caused the end? - 10/10/2007 2:09:57 PM   
tricia


Posts: 231
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Stephann,

Although i've never been released for the reasons in your OP and i hope i'm understanding your point --

If 'I' have commited myself to blindly obey, to have very few or no limits and i make an intentional, deliberate, conscious decision to refuse an instruction - i would expect to be released.  The first time.  Yes, i do believe the Master who has entered into a relationship of this nature is enpowered and obligated to do so.  I would imagine in a healthy relationship like the one we speak of - it was not entered into lightly by the submissive nor the dominant for this very reason.
 
Love.  Happiness. Time.  They would have to come second.  The trust has been broken.


< Message edited by tricia -- 10/10/2007 2:10:50 PM >

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RE: Has disobedience ever caused the end? - 10/10/2007 2:40:28 PM   
LdyScarletDomina


Posts: 118
Joined: 4/22/2007
Status: offline 		Well, I feel it necessary to answer this question two ways.  As  a Mistress, I had to release a male slave I was with for over 6 months for trying to punch a hole through my face.  I released one female submissive for telling me she was staying chaste while she was having sex with her ex boyfriend.  (she did not live with me)
 
My relationship with my Master nearly ended about a year ago. We had been together for a year when I needed emergency dental work done.  I am a SEVERE dental phobic because I can't handle needles in my mouth.  It triggers panic attacks and other problems I'm so terrified of them.  Master had done everything possible - arranged for me to have nitrous, novicaine, a dentist who worked with phobic patients.  When it was time to leave the house I dug in my heels and refused to go.  He comforted, he asked, he tried to talk sense in to me for an hour.  Finally  he ordered me.  "You will get up and get in the car, now."  I refused.  Then he said - "You have to either trust me or take off your collar right now.  I  am supposed to be in charge of your health and if you want to take that back our relationship is at an end"    I got up, hysterical and still babbling excuses about why I couldn't go but I obeyed.  It turned out to be ok, had never had nitrous before and that was acutally fun.  I had 4 hours of work done with him right by my side.
 
I was horribly angry at him.  But now I am ever grateful.  Sometimes, drawing the line can be good for someone
 
Hope this gives an alternate perspective.
 
Lady Scarlet

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RE: Has disobedience ever caused the end? - 10/10/2007 2:44:40 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

So that's where the question comes from; has disobedience or refusal to comply with an instruction in an otherwise healthy, established relationship caused the end of your relationship?


Hmmmm.....I'm not sure how to answer this.  I have had occasion to release a slave, primarily for disobedience, yet I am reluctant to consider the relationship "healthy".  Rather, the disobedience was the last symptom of a dysfunctional dynamic that I was not able repair.

Is a relationship where dsobedience has become that significant of an issue as to warrant release "healthy" at that stage?


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RE: Has disobedience ever caused the end? - 10/10/2007 2:57:42 PM   
submittous


Posts: 345
Joined: 6/12/2004
Status: offline 		We have released a slave for willfully disobeying a standing rule. We honestly don't know if the standing order was disobeyed in order to achieve release or not.

A wise old gay Dom once told us that "you can't own a slave that you aren't willing to release".  You can have a Dom/sub relationship that you are not willing to end but we don't think that is true in M/s.

Bill and Iris

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RE: Has disobedience ever caused the end? - 10/10/2007 5:41:21 PM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		Well...
Once the "established relationship" is in place, I can imagine several examples where a single violation being severe enough for dismissal. 

1.    Attempted murder - absolute deal breaker - especially if it's successful.
2.    Cleaning out the bank account and skipping town with the pool boy - definitely want my collar back on that one (no - I don't have a pool for just that reason).
3.    Vandalism / arson of our home (there's no place like home, and then...there's no place....like home.)
4.    Voting for hillary (self-explanatory)

Aside for these...and all kidding aside...to me an established relationship (can I say "committed") of the D/s (M/s) is more than a play partner.  It's a real "two-way commitment;" the sub/slave to the Dom/Master and, in my case the Master/Dom to the slave/sub.  If I'm to take the commitment of Candace seriously, how can I NOT make the same commitment?  And then, as the "MASTER" - how can I turn-tail-and-run (or, if you will "dismiss her") because she's less than perfect.  I can't rightly hold her to a standard that I myself haven't achieved and regularly maintained.  To me, that's more hypocritical than masterly (imho). 

NO, instead, I would rather dig and find out WHY there was an infraction.  Determine how I can help her to NOT have this infraction again.  To me - my role is to teach her to be who she is, to fulfill her role to her (and my) honor.  I guess I want her to submit to me - in obedience, because that's where she belongs, and she can do no better, rather than if she screws up, I may boot her to the curb.  I want my slave to be a better person because of me, not in spite of me.


Candace,
   I'm kidding about #4 above.  You would just have to figure how to explain to the grandkids why grandma has corner time.
   AND you are absolutely positively forbidden to use this against me in any matters of a difference in opinion (should I have made this #5...).

The OTHER breath of Breatheasone

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RE: Has disobedience ever caused the end? - 10/10/2007 5:50:55 PM   
PsyVamp


Posts: 1026
Joined: 10/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

I released a sub who I had been with for 2 years because he broke a core rule and destroyed my trust in him. Once the trust is gone, what else is there?

~Lashra



So many wonderful answers in this thread, but this one I identify with.  I left a husband because of a rule that was broken, the trust was gone after he lied about it.
After that I ended a 12 year relationship on almost the same note.  When the disobedience is health/life threatening, you bet your last dollar that's the end for me.

As far as time to get to know one another that people keep mentioning:
Sometimes, the more time you spend with someone, the more you realize that they are not what/who you thought they were.  Maybe they realize the same of you.
Either way, if you can't get passed this and nothing ever gets rectified, then yes, it is time to end it and time to move on.

Psy... been there..done that..will do it again, I'm sure

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RE: Has disobedience ever caused the end? - 10/10/2007 6:14:18 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
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quote:

How many folks have had established (3+ months) relationships (not just collars) that ended because one instruction, order, or rule wasn't obeyed.


I've been disobedient and it didn't end the relationship.  I generally do what I'm told, and am forever pining after more orders, so I know if I'm given an instruction, I better damn well follow it.  He gives so few, when I hear anything that remotely resembles an order, I jump pretty quick.  I really don't want to miss my chance to be obedient 'cause they don't come that often.

But, on occasion, I've lapsed especially with standing orders.  A couple of weeks ago, I "yupped" him one too many times and got punished for it.  I just wasn't paying attention, though I haven't "yupped" since.  Another time, I really wanted a cup of coffee in the evening when I'm not supposed to have it.  I im'd him hoping he'd give me permission, but he wasn't at his computer.  So, I had the coffee anyway not really knowing what he'd do then journaled my reasons.   He didn't release me.  I haven't felt that strong a need for a cup of coffee since.

If I thought he'd release me for not following one order, I wouldn't be with him 'cause that kind of insecurity would make me a wreck.  If anything, he's too lenient, and I'm always wanting more of that Masterly stuff he dishes out so nicely when he wants to.  Its better for me to be begging  for more than be left high and dry without a Master because of a single failure to obey.


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RE: Has disobedience ever caused the end? - 10/10/2007 6:25:34 PM   
goodgirl85


Posts: 221
Joined: 4/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Following the theme of obedience, I'm curious.

How many folks have had established (3+ months) relationships (not just collars) that ended because one instruction, order, or rule wasn't obeyed.  I would prefer the question to reflect D/s rules; "I was released because I cheated on him, and that broke a 'no cheating' rule" isn't really what I have in mind here.



Does the "hey im a dom so im going to have side pieces, me being okay with at first then falling madly in love and deciding I dont want to share you anymore" thing count???? that caused the end for me in a relationship

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RE: Has disobedience ever caused the end? - 10/10/2007 6:42:42 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
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Status: offline 		This has really gotten me thinking.  At first when I read the title of the thread I chuckled.  My first thought after reading it was "yes, many, many times", (all in the same relationship).  My x would completely shut me off, and ignore me.  Now, I am a firecracker at times... no doubt about it and I would go off when he ignored me.  There were days I literally did not think I was going to make it through them....surely I would die if he didn't speak to me.  At the end of it, he always told me we were through and he would delete whatever e-mail account he had created to communicate with me.  Within a few days he had created another e-mail account and we were on the next round.  BTW we were real-time, but not 24/7.

Ok...I wandered a lot.  I was in a completely dysfunctional relationship and was released at least once a month for almost five years for mostly stupid shit.

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RE: Has disobedience ever caused the end? - 10/10/2007 6:53:48 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		I can forgive a lot, but breach of trust is hard to overcome although I did it once. Assuming we have been communicating and not trying to read each other’s mind, we should understand the necessity of feeling secure in a relationship that nourishes and gives intimacy.

Trust is the kingpin of a deeply satisfying relationship. You can’t shadow actions with deceit and selfishly fall prey to the excitement of the moment when that is not the set-up of your particular D/s relationship. That’s one reason I make sure this is what the woman wants when she wants to be my slave. We can keep it casual and I’m fine with her being any way she wants, but once we make agreements, my leniency diminishes.

I once made a big deal out of a situation where nothing really happened like cheating. Only one rule was broken, but I made the point to her that she was sacrificing the trust in our relationship in a careless, flirting moment. I did forgive her after an appropriate punishment and it appeared she got the message and understood the sanctity of trust.

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RE: Has disobedience ever caused the end? - 10/10/2007 7:11:52 PM   
DominaSmartass


Posts: 961
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From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline 		When I get into a relationship with someone it is because I like him as a whole person and not as a sub or slave or whatnot. So if I find we are compatible and we decide to make a go of it, I definitely want there to be enough security that he knows it's ok to fuck up and he's not going to be out on his ass. This might sound counter-intuitive to a d/s relationship since no one wants their sub to constantly be doing things wrong, but I believe that the kind of mentality one has if they constantly feel like they are walking on eggshells and afraid of what might happen if they screw up or even disobey does not make for the environment I want in my house. I guess that's my choice though. I currently have a great partner who has and does make me angry and upset with him (every once in a while, not constantly by any means) but that's just part of it and we always, always come through those times stronger than before because we have to talk about what happened. I don't like the idea that someone is disposable, so of course, barring something extremely majorly wrong (everyone has their dealbrakers) I could never just kick someone to the street for an act of disobedience. I'd take it as a chance for learning and growing and move on. Of course if the same thing happens again and again that's a different story. And of course, everything depends on the context. But overall, this is my stance.

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RE: Has disobedience ever caused the end? - 10/10/2007 7:26:38 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		Yes, the first girl I dated for awhile and began a negotiated D/S with. It wasnt specifically the disobedience itself, but rather because the incident proved to me that she had too many issues and didnt have what I needed in a slave.

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RE: Has disobedience ever caused the end? - 10/10/2007 8:22:39 PM   
junecleaver


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline 		No.  I'm not sure a relationship like that could be healthy for me either.

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RE: Has disobedience ever caused the end? - 10/11/2007 4:05:33 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
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Status: offline 		I think in a *healthy and established relationship*, people generally know what they can or can't do without damaging their relationship irreparably. If there is a rule that, if broken, would end the relationship, I imagine it'd be a significant enough no-no, to both sides.

It's not the rule break that ends the relationship but what it signifies.

agirl







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