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RE: mom thinks my Sir can't commit - 10/14/2007 8:12:25 AM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

There is no substitute for marriage. It's the ultimate collaring ceremony.



there really isn't anything in the Bible that says that marriage is necessary for anything other than property and inheritance rights.  The sons of concubines were not inheritors only sons of wives.  God did not punish anyone for not being married.  If anyone really reads the Bible they can clearly see that God only disliked rape and random sex. 



Then why does the Bible specifically state that sex outside of marriage is a sin? Also, if one gets a divorce, remarries, and has sex with their new spouse, they are committing adultery against their ex spouse.

< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 10/14/2007 8:16:18 AM >

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(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: mom thinks my Sir can't commit - 10/14/2007 8:21:50 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Does EVERYTHING have to turn into a Bible study session?

It gets really tiresome.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: mom thinks my Sir can't commit - 10/14/2007 8:28:08 AM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CutieMouse

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

I am posting on this thread to get rid of this stupid ass vanilla cone. yeah 26!

You really dont want to get married? Do you even want things to last forever with your boss in life?

Im with your mom though. There is no substitute for marriage. It's the ultimate collaring ceremony.


I've been married. Never again, thank you. There is no ceremony (wedding or collaring), no ring, no collar, no physical symbol necessary for me to be in a trusting, loving, committed monogomous relationship. (That's right - I feel absolutely no need or desire to be formally "collared" to be in a committed long term relationship...)

Take couple A and couple B - both are together 20 years; however,  couple A went through the formality of marriage, and the couple B didn't. Is couple B any less "forever/Boss of your life" than couple A? The words and ring are just words and a ring; I trust actions, not things.

(I do believe that committed relationships should include Power of Attorney/Wills/etc to anticipate issues of medical health/death/etc.)


i am soooo with you on this!!! 
 
i also think people get way too hung up on "forever". There is no time element for a commited relationship except the moments you are in it. Enjoy the moments...

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(in reply to CutieMouse)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: mom thinks my Sir can't commit - 10/14/2007 8:51:15 AM   
kitttty


Posts: 494
Joined: 10/10/2007
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quote:


To many, the only difference between the two, is that marriage is legally binding. I've known and met many who think just as highly of a collaring ceremony and treat it much like a wedding, there's just no legal joining viewed and acknowledged by the state.


This is even more silly. Have a collaring ceremony think of it as highly as a wedding and treat it much like a wedding and then separately arrange for wills and insurances etc. to provide for both partners. Do this all just to avoid marriage- why? Why not just get married? Because it has some religious significance? Sort of but everyone from atheists to wiccans get married with whatever ceremony they choose and they get the same secular marriage license. Really if marrriage is so meaningless and just a peice fo paper, why are the gays and the polygamists fighting so hard for it? Why are the conservatives fighting so hard to keep it for temselves?

quote:

And I've also known people to last forever without getting married. Namely most of those couples being gay couples that COULDN'T get married. Yet they stayed together. Who is to say that those that do collarings and not weddings won't last forever if that is what they want? And who says that weddings last forever?



If your entire psychological being exists in a vacuum, then it doesn't matter if you are collared or married. Otherwise, yes, marriage and collaring are the same except for that little tiny ENORMOUS legal binding socially recognized bit. On this thread we have two people that won't get married in part because they are getting alimony from the previous marriage. This is how powerful marriage is- it affects your life decisions even when its gone and over with. Try getting alimony if your collaring bit doesn't work out. I will never be so naive as to believe that my relationsip with any Master can't turn exploitative or bad some other way and if that happens I don't want to be screwed because of it.

A collar is a peice of leather. A marriage is a legal contract so solidly regarded that is not only recognized in every state, but automatically recognized in every corner of the world. If your spouse emirgrates to Morocco or Argentina, you can go with them automatically because the whole world sees you as conjoined lives.

Really, if a Master doesn't ever want to marry me, it means he doesn't totally want to own me. And I bet the reason a lot of kinky folk don't want to get married is because they don't strongly aspire for their relationship to last forever. Marriages usually don't last forever, but the people getting into them usually want it to last forever at least.

Besides, I am 25 and I want to have babies so any guy that is against marriage on principle is sort of hindering my life since I don't like my fertile years squandered on guys that don't want to commit. I'm not about to have kids with some guy who says "Here's a collar. I promise I'll stick around".

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: mom thinks my Sir can't commit - 10/14/2007 8:54:55 AM   
Aine


Posts: 820
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

wow that orange font is really really hard to read.


No one's ever complained before. 


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Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: mom thinks my Sir can't commit - 10/14/2007 9:02:45 AM   
Aine


Posts: 820
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline 		Your opinions differ from others, that doesn't make people who don't want to get married, wrong.

Heck, I'm getting married.  I'm engaged.  It has nothing to do with my support of people who don't feel it is necessary to get married in order to be true and love another person in whole capacity.

Don't push your views onto other people.  You think it's great to get married.  I do to, if that is what you want to do.  If ya don't, then more power to you.  My getting married has absolutely nothing to do with my life in BDSM, and honestly, who cares if people don't want to get married?  Let them do what they want to.


_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

(in reply to kitttty)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: mom thinks my Sir can't commit - 10/14/2007 9:04:23 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I always wonder when I see people saying this if they didn't feel the committment when they first got married, and not mean over the long haul of the entire relationship?
I mean.. when I got married I KNEW I wasn't in love and even then I felt committed to be there.  But I am an oddity.  I think most people when they first get married probably do feel a loving, close, lifetime connection.  It may not last. but that not lasting can happen nilla or bdsm.  But those initial days..?  Why do regular people get married unless they feel something like what you said below?
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: pleasureforck

I feel closer and more committed to my Sir than I did my ex.


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pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
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(in reply to pleasureforck)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: mom thinks my Sir can't commit - 10/14/2007 9:07:35 AM   
Aine


Posts: 820
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline 		She may have felt it when she did get married...it just might be more intensified now.  *shrugs*

_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: mom thinks my Sir can't commit - 10/14/2007 9:34:33 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain
I've read many advice columns over the years that begin with, "My mom thinks I..."

You could fit any concern into this. It is interesting that people worrry so much what their mothers think and I don't mean it in a bad way. Having concern for what your parents think is inherent in most of us as is the parent worrying about you. It defies logic and the methods of dealing with others don't seem to work here. You will be the same way later as you try to pass on the family/social values to your children. With time you come to accept and deal with the parent in a way you can both live with. Just understand that it really doesn't matter what you do her "concern" is still going to be there in a way that is going to affect you.

I'm sorry, I can't tell for certain that you're directly replying to me or saying how I WILL be and I would hate to assign such rude behavior to you without confirmation first.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: mom thinks my Sir can't commit - 10/14/2007 11:34:53 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pleasureforck

My mom thinks my Sir can't truely commit because he doesn't believe in marriage. It's frustrating not being able to tell her I'm collared and that we feel it is a commitment just like marriage. Actually after an 18 year vanilla marriage I feel closer and more committed to my Sir than I did my ex. I know I shouldn't care what she thinks but she's my mom and never shuts up. lol...I'm not asking for advice, just venting.
 Why shouldn't you care what she thinks? It sounds like you do care and that is perfectly okay. You can care but still do what is right for you. It sounds like she is worried about you being happy. Is there something in particular that worries her? Your long term future, financially? Maybe you could sit down with her and find out if she just wants you 'married' or to be safe. I know I would never tell my mother I'm collared and to butt out of my life. I would however tell her that I love ______ and that I'm happy with him. I see no need to tell her the nittygritty details of your relationship, especially if you know it would shock and disturb her. IMO that would be selfish and rather cruel. Maybe just smile, tell her you know she wants the best for you but that you are really and truly okay.

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(in reply to pleasureforck)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: mom thinks my Sir can't commit - 10/14/2007 12:26:41 PM   
pleasureforck


Posts: 95
Joined: 7/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

quote:

ORIGINAL: pleasureforck

My mom thinks my Sir can't truely commit because he doesn't believe in marriage. It's frustrating not being able to tell her I'm collared and that we feel it is a commitment just like marriage. Actually after an 18 year vanilla marriage I feel closer and more committed to my Sir than I did my ex. I know I shouldn't care what she thinks but she's my mom and never shuts up. lol...I'm not asking for advice, just venting.
 Why shouldn't you care what she thinks? It sounds like you do care and that is perfectly okay. You can care but still do what is right for you. It sounds like she is worried about you being happy. Is there something in particular that worries her? Your long term future, financially? Maybe you could sit down with her and find out if she just wants you 'married' or to be safe. I know I would never tell my mother I'm collared and to butt out of my life. I would however tell her that I love ______ and that I'm happy with him. I see no need to tell her the nittygritty details of your relationship, especially if you know it would shock and disturb her. IMO that would be selfish and rather cruel. Maybe just smile, tell her you know she wants the best for you but that you are really and truly okay.

My mom is 74 years old and I would never consider telling her I'm collared or in a D/s relationship. If she's worried now I can't imagine how she would be then. I have too much respect and care too much about her to tell her to butt out of my life. I recently lost my dad so maybe that makes my relationship with her even more important and makes it harder to see her worry about me. She loves me and is just concerned for my happiness. My parents were married for 56 years. To her marriage is everything.  She still has trouble with the living together without marriage even though she is trying. She does only want whats best for me. I do tell her I am happy. My Sir is just moving in with me the end of the month and she's never met him. One more thing to make her concerned is that we met online. All these modern day ways. Must feel overwhelming for a woman her age. Hopefully once she sees that he makes me happy over a period of time her fears will subside. She will be meeting him in the spring and that will also help I think.
Thanks for all the posts. It's turned out to be interesting hearing everyone's opinion. Never imagined my venting would turn into a debate on marriage.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: mom thinks my Sir can't commit - 10/14/2007 12:38:48 PM   
RosesHaveThorns


Posts: 312
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		I think that family is important, and yes, not all of the time they are willing to simply let you do your own thing. However, depending on the age and the culture of anyone's mother, expressing concern for her daughter's marital state, which means legal and social rights to some is her way of being concerned over her daughter. It would be nice if parents didn't try to interfer, but good luck finding some like that.

And I think that marriage is what you make of it. It's a word applied to customs from all sorts of eras, places and cultures, so there is no one true defintion of marriage.What matters is what the two(or more) people getting married want out of it. If it just means insurance (But you want the insurance) to both parties, then I think that is a fine reason to marry if both parties are after the same goal. (Especially since U.S. laws don't acknowledge many different types of relationships)

And remember, she is handing over her daughter to a stranger...Without commitments for him to provide for her daughter that SHE can see. That is going to be scary for many people. So take it slowly, introduce the two, and perhaps inform the Master of this issue if he's not aware already. Afterall, a humorous and not ill-intentioned joke might not go down well if it scares your mother. Worry if this persists after she's been around him for a long time.

Of course, you could do some creative fibbing and pretend that the collaring ceremony is uh, a religious type marriage ceremony, and forget to mention that there was a collar invovled. But then you run the risk of being caught in...an extremely weird and out there lie.

(in reply to pleasureforck)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: mom thinks my Sir can't commit - 10/14/2007 12:42:28 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain
I've read many advice columns over the years that begin with, "My mom thinks I..."

You could fit any concern into this. It is interesting that people worrry so much what their mothers think and I don't mean it in a bad way. Having concern for what your parents think is inherent in most of us as is the parent worrying about you. It defies logic and the methods of dealing with others don't seem to work here. You will be the same way later as you try to pass on the family/social values to your children. With time you come to accept and deal with the parent in a way you can both live with. Just understand that it really doesn't matter what you do her "concern" is still going to be there in a way that is going to affect you.

I'm sorry, I can't tell for certain that you're directly replying to me or saying how I WILL be and I would hate to assign such rude behavior to you without confirmation first.


I never direct rude comments at you, LA. I ususally read your wise comments and follow them with my thoughts is all. Smart lady you are. (I still want to fuck your brains out.....now that was a joke....sort of.)

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: mom thinks my Sir can't commit - 10/14/2007 12:43:28 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

quote:

ORIGINAL: InkedMaster

but ya know God doesn't require a signed piece of paper and a stamp on it to make it Holy Matrimony, the State does

According to everything I know, about christian faith, and certain other faiths,  which is very little, and this is what a friend who's religious, and my mom, who identifies as christian,  states the bibble says many many many times, that "god" does not approve of people living out of wedlock. Living out of wedlock is a sin and something "god" does not approve of. Neither does "god" approve of premartial sex.

Now, like I said, I don't know, because I am atheist and I don't even believe in god, but those are the same principals I've heard preached  over and over from people who do believe in god.


You completely missed InkMaster's point.  A Biblically sanctioned marriage does not require governmental recognition.  In other words, the Bible may condemn sex or living together prior to marriage, but there's no requirement that the marriage be licensed or registered by the state... a union pledged before God is all that is required.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a theologian to understand that.

But remember... what therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 

< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 10/14/2007 12:45:24 PM >

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: mom thinks my Sir can't commit - 10/14/2007 12:55:41 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

Then why does the Bible specifically state that sex outside of marriage is a sin?


Weren't concubines common?
Did men of the Bible have sex with women other than their wives for procreation? 
Weren't multiple wives common in old testament times?
Is god cool with this?  Or are we limiting the discussion to the new testament?
God confuses me...


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(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: mom thinks my Sir can't commit - 10/14/2007 1:20:35 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

Then why does the Bible specifically state that sex outside of marriage is a sin?


Weren't concubines common?
Did men of the Bible have sex with women other than their wives for procreation? 
Weren't multiple wives common in old testament times?
Is god cool with this?  Or are we limiting the discussion to the new testament?
God confuses me...



You didn't capitalize "God" and you are in big trouble now.

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You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: mom thinks my Sir can't commit - 10/14/2007 3:59:01 PM   
kitttty


Posts: 494
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline 		The Bible is awesome. It says a man can't have sex with a woman unless he owns her as either a wife, a concubine or a slave. Likewise a woman can't have sex with a man unless she is owned by him. If you violate this rule then you get snuffed at the footsteps of the girl's father's house. Who needs Gor when you can read the Old Testament?

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: mom thinks my Sir can't commit - 10/14/2007 4:47:37 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		Yep, it's the best piece of fiction for the last two thousand years.

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(in reply to kitttty)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: mom thinks my Sir can't commit - 10/14/2007 5:20:37 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		You say that he doesn't want to get married. You don't state that you don't want to.

Assuming you don't want to, or at least not at this time, just tell her you're afraid of being burned again after having one bad marriage. That you're not ruling it out forever, but right now you don't feel up to it.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: mom thinks my Sir can't commit - 10/14/2007 6:39:24 PM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

No offense, but I would have thought that at 41 years of age; you would stop looking for your mother's approval.

/shrug




(I left a marriage where I had to deal with that shit).

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 60
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