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Dominant Expectations - 10/13/2007 5:52:55 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		I seek My One true submissive knight. He is alpha by day, successful and handsome, passionate, and generous to a fault. He understands the dynamic and the power exchange; he yearns to give, to hand over, to lay down his guard.He understands that what I seek is My birthright, to be adored, cherrished and spoiled. He is single, and he is prepared to begin his journey.

I read the above in someone's profile. I honestly do wonder how one comes to hold such beliefs. What's odd is how this viewpoint puts her in the submissive or weak position of courtship, because she's concentrating on what she's getting (which is out of her control) as opposed to what she's giving (which is in her control.)

When **I** think of dominance, I see the role more as a responsibility than as a privilegded position. Like a manager or owner of a business, operations don't run well on their own and employees do not excel in an atmosphere of "you're lucky to be here." No, a manager or owner gets results by putting themselves into the operations and empowering, leading, motivating, and who knows, --- maybe inspiring their their charges.

I suppose the person above holds the monachial view of domination with the whole birthright, "revolve around me thing." But I have to agree with Thomas Paine, such venerated thinking is delusional.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 10/13/2007 5:54:41 PM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Dominant Expectations - 10/13/2007 6:48:47 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I seek My One true submissive knight. He is alpha by day, successful and handsome, passionate, and generous to a fault. He understands the dynamic and the power exchange; he yearns to give, to hand over, to lay down his guard.He understands that what I seek is My birthright, to be adored, cherrished and spoiled. He is single, and he is prepared to begin his journey.

I read the above in someone's profile. I honestly do wonder how one comes to hold such beliefs. What's odd is how this viewpoint puts her in the submissive or weak position of courtship, because she's concentrating on what she's getting (which is out of her control) as opposed to what she's giving (which is in her control.)

When **I** think of dominance, I see the role more as a responsibility than as a privilegded position. Like a manager or owner of a business, operations don't run well on their own and employees do not excel in an atmosphere of "you're lucky to be here." No, a manager or owner gets results by putting themselves into the operations and empowering, leading, motivating, and who knows, --- maybe inspiring their their charges.

I suppose the person above holds the monachial view of domination with the whole birthright, "revolve around me thing." But I have to agree with Thomas Paine, such venerated thinking is delusional.



Well, you assume everyone is like you.  But the things I put in bold indicate this person is looking for money, not a relationship.  This raises some serious red flags to me.
l

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Dominant Expectations - 10/13/2007 7:03:45 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
There are submissive men that climb over each other to have a shot at a relationship like the one she describes.  There are some men that want to offer that kind of devotion to a woman simply because she was born with a vagina.

Akasha


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RE: Dominant Expectations - 10/13/2007 8:52:22 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Where is this guy?  I could certainly use a centurion! 

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



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RE: Dominant Expectations - 10/13/2007 8:59:36 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Where is this guy?


Exactly.

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RE: Dominant Expectations - 10/13/2007 9:10:37 PM   
NoreenSwan


Posts: 117
Joined: 7/18/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I seek My One true submissive knight. He is alpha by day, successful and handsome, passionate, and generous to a fault. He understands the dynamic and the power exchange; he yearns to give, to hand over, to lay down his guard.He understands that what I seek is My birthright, to be adored, cherrished and spoiled. He is single, and he is prepared to begin his journey.

I read the above in someone's profile. I honestly do wonder how one comes to hold such beliefs. What's odd is how this viewpoint puts her in the submissive or weak position of courtship, because she's concentrating on what she's getting (which is out of her control) as opposed to what she's giving (which is in her control.)

When **I** think of dominance, I see the role more as a responsibility than as a privilegded position. Like a manager or owner of a business, operations don't run well on their own and employees do not excel in an atmosphere of "you're lucky to be here." No, a manager or owner gets results by putting themselves into the operations and empowering, leading, motivating, and who knows, --- maybe inspiring their their charges.

I suppose the person above holds the monachial view of domination with the whole birthright, "revolve around me thing." But I have to agree with Thomas Paine, such venerated thinking is delusional.


Delusional for some and for some its HAWT HAWT HAWT!


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Responsibility or privilege

Truthfully all of it entirely depends on the people and the things that make them happy and excited and I know that for me, a sense of entitlement or sense of privilege from a dom (OR DOMME) is sexy sexy sexy!

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Responsibilites are more for Service Tops. Not that doms dont have responsibilites, they certainly do but service tops have ONLY responsbilites and those responsibilies are to "do" a bottom and to do things that a bottom needs. Service tops are not like Doms. Doms on the other hand have responsibilities, and privileges.


Some subs want to adore and worship and serve a dom. They want and like him to feel "privileged" (that is the allure) and they like the sense of entitlement and even maybe his sexy cocky attitude even (ooooh!!) and combined with leadership skills and love. Or whatever. Thing is they want to worship him and be under his control and influence. For this dom, it is his PRIVILEGE and his right to be adored and served by his sub. Maybe this doesn't work for some, but for him and his adoring sub, it does.

Some, who are not really subs, want to be serviced as a bottom. They want a top to do things TO them. For the top, it is his "responsibility" as you say.

I think you are a bottom and you don't understand a sub or slaves mind. Neither will you accept it as a reality for some other peoples lives.

Ahemmmmm, okay, to clarify, I have nothing against either or.

EDITED: DOMS AND OR DOMMES <<tiff, tiff LOL>>

Doms "GET" submission first, BEFORE they can control. So it is both. Every dom hsa to "GET" - get submission from someone and that doesnt make them submissive at all.


< Message edited by NoreenSwan -- 10/13/2007 9:37:21 PM >

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Dominant Expectations - 10/13/2007 9:22:16 PM   
NoreenSwan


Posts: 117
Joined: 7/18/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha


There are submissive men that climb over each other to have a shot at a relationship like the one she describes.  There are some men that want to offer that kind of devotion to a woman simply because she was born with a vagina.

Akasha



Amen to the above quote from AAkasha.

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Dominant Expectations - 10/13/2007 9:39:30 PM   
NoreenSwan


Posts: 117
Joined: 7/18/2007
Status: offline 		work up on your charm , be someone who he wants to serve, and hell come charging out from osh gosh I tell you! <muahhhhhh>>>

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
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RE: Dominant Expectations - 10/14/2007 4:00:45 AM   
MsLilac


Posts: 151
Joined: 5/31/2007
Status: offline 		I agree and disagree with various parts of your post. Whilst it I feel the excerpt from that profile does seem a little romantic and wistful, and possibly a tad unrealistic, I do not see how this would put the Lady in question in a submissive position; I disagree with your reasoning in this context. She seeks a knight looking to serve his Queen, the Queen is still the ruling Monarch, it’s just another shade under the all encompassing term we call ‘the lifestyle‘.

This kind of relationship may (or may not) put her in a less active role, and she may use less initiative, than the way you are used to, it doesn’t make her submissive in my opinion. The final decisions (I assume) would still lay with her. I certainly don’t see how concentrating on her own wants, and what she is getting, makes her weak, or puts her in a position of less control. Simply doing that can inspire the ’knight’ to want to please and give even more.

As has been mentioned, merely being the consciously proud owner of a vagina can inspire submission and the need to please and serve his ‘Queen‘, in some men (and women), without the use of cajoling. Perhaps slightly illogical for some, but hey, if it works, more power to them.

I personally disagree with the whole ’birthright’ thing, I find it an amusing and strange concept, but whatever works for these people, right? As long as both are happy.

_____________________________

I’m sorry, I don’t do autographs

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RE: Dominant Expectations - 10/14/2007 4:26:28 AM   
beeble


Posts: 799
Joined: 5/25/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

cloudboy wrote: What's odd is how this viewpoint puts her in the submissive or weak position of courtship, because she's concentrating on what she's getting (which is out of her control) as opposed to what she's giving (which is in her control.)

I don't see that at all.  Everybody who is looking for a relationship is looking for something -- if not, they'd just enter a relationship with the first person they saw on the street.  So merely wanting something fairly specific is in no way a submissive position.

I also dispute your assertion that the focus of dominance is what the dominant gives.  The flip side of that is that submission is about receiving things: `Whip me!  Tie me up!  Sit on my face!  Take me with your strap-on!'  That's called `topping from the bottom.'


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RE: Dominant Expectations - 10/14/2007 4:51:34 AM   
MissMagnolia


Posts: 3636
Status: offline 		You suppose wrong. Everyone's view is different. Not just in this but in everything. Just because you don't understand it, or find it attractive, doesn't make it any less valid.

You see dominance as a responsibility, not a priviledged position. I wonder how you have come to hold such a belief? I am not a store manager looking to get more out of my employee's and expand my business. I am a dominant, and have no intention of being responsible for another full grown adult. I do not think of myself as a monarch, I do not think that the world revolves around me, either. I do expect my sub to do his utmost to make me feel fulfilled in some way. If he does not, and he is not fulfilled by me, what is the point? I can employ a cleaner to do my housework, get sex within 10 minutes in a club, work to get my own money. I don't need to get a sub to do any of that. There is a whole lot more to ANY D/s relationship and the woman who wrote the profile has explained very clearly what she wants, as is the right of all of us. Her very words WOULD be inspiring to many subs/slaves.

As we all think differently, perhaps YOU are delusional in thinking that everyone should hold your beliefs (you and Thomas Paine, of course)?



_____________________________

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Resident Whip Cracker AND Resident Orbs Of Joy.


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RE: Dominant Expectations - 10/14/2007 6:10:09 AM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		My profile is pretty much nothing but my expectations... that's generally the first question I'm asked... What do you expect from me. For some reason saying "I expect you to show up" wasn't a good enough answer so I put it in my profile.
 
Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

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RE: Dominant Expectations - 10/14/2007 7:27:18 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		Expectations are a little different than the intrinsic, soulful qualities you wish another person to possess. To continue with the employer analogy, its reasonable to ask for qualifications and to submit a list of expectations: hours, duties, job description, & responsbilities...etc. It would be another thing altogether to expect the employee to regard his job as a dream job or to adopt the job as a messianic vocation.

What impeaches Aakasha's view is the length of time the profile in question's been up (over a year,) and what futher impeaches it is how she's not looking for just any man, she's looking for a rich, generous, monogamous, submissive stud. The combined soulful (passionate, generous, yearning) and immutable (handsome, successful) personal qualities sought makes for quite a two level cut.

What's her lure to seduce such a man? I got a vagina? So does every other woman.

To me this is a clear example of the Goddess complex, where women trade off their ability to sexually manipulate men and thereafter elevate that single power into a kind self-described personal divinity.

Clearly, men are sexually attracted to that, but I really doubt that they are soulfully attracted to it. It harkens back a little bit to BlkTallFullfig's old thread of the Madonna-Whore complex. Aka, the Goddess can reel the men in, problem is they tend to swim away when it comes to seeking marriage or a fulfilling LTR. MsCfromMelbourne also related a similar experience.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 10/14/2007 7:28:54 AM >

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RE: Dominant Expectations - 10/14/2007 7:53:11 AM   
NoreenSwan


Posts: 117
Joined: 7/18/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMagnolia

You suppose wrong. Everyone's view is different. Not just in this but in everything. Just because you don't understand it, or find it attractive, doesn't make it any less valid.

You see dominance as a responsibility, not a priviledged position. I wonder how you have come to hold such a belief? I am not a store manager looking to get more out of my employee's and expand my business. I am a dominant, and have no intention of being responsible for another full grown adult. I do not think of myself as a monarch, I do not think that the world revolves around me, either. I do expect my sub to do his utmost to make me feel fulfilled in some way. If he does not, and he is not fulfilled by me, what is the point? I can employ a cleaner to do my housework, get sex within 10 minutes in a club, work to get my own money. I don't need to get a sub to do any of that. There is a whole lot more to ANY D/s relationship and the woman who wrote the profile has explained very clearly what she wants, as is the right of all of us. Her very words WOULD be inspiring to many subs/slaves.

As we all think differently, perhaps YOU are delusional in thinking that everyone should hold your beliefs (you and Thomas Paine, of course)?



exactly

For the original posting member:::::::::>

Gotta love it when someone offers his opinion with as much bullshit as the next and tries to discredit others ways just because he doesnt like it. ... every relationship is different ... everybody filters and understand things through our own experience .. we all believe what we believe .. there is no "ONE" way.


BDSM in all its forms is first and foremost a matter of will ...the will to surrender and the will to Dominate. everything else is just a matter of whatever the people involved want it to be .. so we can all choose whether the cock is a victim , trapped by the satin vise.

What I don't understand (feel free to correct me, I am a sometimes wrong)... is why you care so much? and lastly, give these goddesses type some credit because they all for the most part have more to offer than a pussy. you sound like you have a chip on your shoulder against pussy owners. maybe you wish you were them...or maybe your wife is jealous of their power and will delude hereself in thinking their pussy is the only reason they have power... which is total bullshit...no matter how much you try to convince yourself otherwise.

also, what woman can't control a man's cock? Goddesses and less attractive women control mens cocks everyday. give up your beef with the beautiful goddesses.


and for the record.,.,,I want to have a penis just to see what it would be like to have an outie instead of an inie and then I want to push it back in and go on just as I did before all this dick’en around.

(in reply to MissMagnolia)
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RE: Dominant Expectations - 10/14/2007 9:02:58 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I also dispute your assertion that the focus of dominance is what the dominant gives. The flip side of that is that submission is about receiving things: `Whip me! Tie me up! Sit on my face! Take me with your strap-on!' That's called `topping from the bottom.'


I was not trying to focus on dominance or submission when speaking of the courtship process, but rather on the courtship process itself. If anyone focuses their attention on "what I want" from another, then essentially they relegate themselves to a reactive position of waiting, finding out, and evaluation if others comport with their own list of wants. The person who instead focuses on what she does for another person, by contrast, is leading with elements that are fully under her own control. This person is in the proactive position.

The reactive approach to relationships is consumer oriented (what am I getting) whereas the proactive approach to relationships is production oriented (what can I build.)

I think there's a bit of false romanticism of sitting on the throne and having folks fawn over you while bestowing gifts, tributes, and adolation. Its as if all that pomp is meant to make up for what you as a person are incapable of producing yourself. (Overcompensating for insecurity.)

What appears powerful is actually disempowered and reliant on one's pliant subjects. It somewhat harken's to Tolsoy's theory of great men, aka, that great men are actually small men. (Napolean, for example.)

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 10/14/2007 9:06:28 AM >

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RE: Dominant Expectations - 10/14/2007 9:26:54 AM   
beeble


Posts: 799
Joined: 5/25/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

cloudboy wrote: I was not trying to focus on dominance or submission when speaking of the courtship process, but rather on the courtship process itself. If anyone focuses their attention on "what I want" from another, then essentially they relegate themselves to a reactive position of waiting, finding out, and evaluation if others comport with their own list of wants.

OK.  I can agree with you in the case of somebody who only has a list of what they want to be given.  Maybe the person whose profile you quoted falls into that class; I don't know if you quoted all of it or just one paragraph.  But everybody who is looking for somebody has at least a minimal set of requirements, even if it's just `A person of the appropriate gender with whom I get along.'  Even if it's just `I'm looking for somebody (anybody!) who will let me [insert kinky activity] them once a week.'



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Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Dominant Expectations - 10/14/2007 9:28:30 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NoreenSwan




Gotta love it when someone offers his opinion with as much bullshit as the next and tries to discredit others ways just because he doesnt like it. ... every relationship is different ... everybody filters and understand things through our own experience .. we all believe what we believe .. there is no "ONE" way.


Here is where we differ. I do not subscribe to rampant relativism, rather I think the world does present us with a fair amount of reality checks. The question is, when does one's viewpoint fall off the cliff of reality into the realm of delusion? In pondering this question, stating, "everybody filters and understand things through our own experience .. we all believe what we believe .. there is no "ONE" way" --- this really adds very little to the debate, because some people are deluded in their thinking and others are not.

The question is, how can we separate the two? The Goddess Complex suggests a form of delusion. It suggests a view that simply will not comport with the world over time. In this case, I doubt the woman in question will find such a man, and I doubt such a man would be attracted to a woman such as her. I perceive an incongruity.

Take me for example. I'm married. If I thought I could go out and be the ultimate slave/submissive to a young, single, beautiful, and intelligent Domme --- and went out to search for such a woman as if it were my birthright ---- I'd be deluded. Why? Because as an already married, middle aged guy, I just don't have the proper offering to such a person.

So, sure, there is no one "correct way" or "right way" to achieve a goal in the universe, but that doesn't mean that there are are not WRONG WAYS. Also, your analysis fails to distinguish the all important necessary scruntity between poor, better, good, and excellent ways of doing things.

Lastly, I don't have a chip on my shoulder. Being deluded is its own punishment --- I don't need to pile onto it. My thrust is more to question this Femdom POV because I think its severely flawed. Such thinking is actually the baseline of this forum, critical thought and the exchange of ideas.

(in reply to NoreenSwan)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Dominant Expectations - 10/14/2007 9:33:33 AM   
NoreenSwan


Posts: 117
Joined: 7/18/2007
Status: offline 		why do you care so much about what others think and what works for others?

why is it your business if it doesnt affect you? ...or does it?

worry about your own life and step out of others peoples life. just because you cant have men fall and worship at your feet, and your wife cant either for the matter, doesnt mean others cant or dont.

< Message edited by NoreenSwan -- 10/14/2007 9:36:19 AM >

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Dominant Expectations - 10/14/2007 9:35:58 AM   
NoreenSwan


Posts: 117
Joined: 7/18/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

My thrust is more to question this Femdom POV because I think its severely flawed.


thats your problem. you and your wife got a beef with femdoms. hey, leave the femmies alone now, they do what works and obviously the men out there like it. lol. jealous are you? lol.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Dominant Expectations - 10/14/2007 9:37:17 AM   
NoreenSwan


Posts: 117
Joined: 7/18/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsLilac

I agree and disagree with various parts of your post. Whilst it I feel the excerpt from that profile does seem a little romantic and wistful, and possibly a tad unrealistic, I do not see how this would put the Lady in question in a submissive position; I disagree with your reasoning in this context. She seeks a knight looking to serve his Queen, the Queen is still the ruling Monarch, it’s just another shade under the all encompassing term we call ‘the lifestyle‘.

This kind of relationship may (or may not) put her in a less active role, and she may use less initiative, than the way you are used to, it doesn’t make her submissive in my opinion. The final decisions (I assume) would still lay with her. I certainly don’t see how concentrating on her own wants, and what she is getting, makes her weak, or puts her in a position of less control. Simply doing that can inspire the ’knight’ to want to please and give even more.

As has been mentioned, merely being the consciously proud owner of a vagina can inspire submission and the need to please and serve his ‘Queen‘, in some men (and women), without the use of cajoling. Perhaps slightly illogical for some, but hey, if it works, more power to them.



Ya'll know it completly!

(in reply to MsLilac)
Profile   Post #: 20
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