luvdragonx
Posts: 388
Joined: 6/22/2005
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Ooops. Guess I should look at who I'm logged in as before I post. This post is by Leonidas, not saraL (one of his slaves).
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Men shouldn't dictate what any woman looks like regardless of ownership. If it's a heath issue, that's one thing. If it's purely aesthetics, that man should ask himself why he wants it.
I certainly dictate what mine looks like. Who are you to say that I shouldn't? And no, I don't ask myself why I want her that way. That I want her that way will do. I certainly wouldn't try to say that my ideal is *the* ideal, but there is every evidence in the world that it's more-or-less the ideal for the fat part of the bell curve man. If it makes you feel better not to believe that, that's fine.
I looked back on that statement and smacked myself upside the head. You're right, how an Owner chooses to modify his property is his business, not for me to say. As far as the 'world wide theory of who's hot" goes, I'm curious as to the demographic of those men. I looked over some articles that support your claims, but the men in question were white and hispanic. That's not a worldwide representation.
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It's not crap. It's like the chicken and the egg debate. Which came first? To say that the ad industry is not perpetuating the stereotypes is crap.
That theory is being disproven more and more. In recent experiments, even baby boys constitantly stared at a picture of a "pretty" (by common standards) woman, while ignoring a "less attractive" image. I know it feels good to blame someone, but it's looking more and more like the truth is that what men find attractive about women is "hard-wired". Again, it doesn't apply to every man, just the vast majority.
Was that study done using faces or full body images? The one I remember, based on the results, showed that what people find attractive in faces is proportion and orientation of facial features. It would stand to reason then that what people find attractive is proportion, not size.
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Body images are SOLD to us every damn day. Weight loss programs, pills, plastic surgery. If 30% of the American population is over-weight, why is 90% (i'm just guessing) of said marketing done with size 4-6 models?
Thank you for stating the falacy explicitly. Nobody is selling you a body image, nor have they ever. Nobody makes any money off of a body image. Advertisers are trying to sell you products. They use attractive women in their advertising because it creates a positive brand association with both men and women. Most men like looking at the model. Most women would like to be like the model. 90% of marketing is done with size 4-6 models because they translate better to camera than a size 8-12, which is really more what most men would find attractive in person.
Think about it though. If the target group for a certain product is 18-25 y/o white males with a yearly income of 18-35K, how does that equal 'most men'?
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You think if Bud used size 14 women of the same proportion as their thin models, guys would like it any less?
Absolutely. You know how I know? Because Bud focus groups their advertising *to death*. It is an absolutely safe bet that if you see it in their commercials, it is what got the most positive response from men in their target demographic.
Again, target demographic does not equal most men.
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Ok, explain this to me. Since when have fake breasts, narrow hips and no bodyfat been ideal for reproduction? Physically fit does not automatically equal thin.
Well, actually, you just described the typical woman in a *woman's* magazine. If you look at the women that men look at (pick up a "men's" magazine, like maxim) you'll see that the women that men like to look at have hips and behinds, and are not waif thin for the most part. It's true that most male fashion designers like their female models to look like feminized boys, but most men do not share the sexuality of most fashion designers.
Actually, I was referring to men's magazines. That's where the fake boobs live.
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Check out the Discovery channel. Or the History channel. Or your public television station. Find a show on hunter/gatherers and look at the women in that society. Their breasts aren't perky, they aren't narrow-hipped or flat stomached.
Depends on which episode of the discovery channel you caught, and which women in the picture you were looking at. It is true that some (but not all) tribal peoples in Africa, and to a lesser extent in some other cultures place a premium on "thick" (your term) women, that is in no way the norm among all such peoples. As for flat stomachs, narrow hips, and perky breasts, were you looking at the women of "prime marrying age" in those pictures (very young by our standards among hunter-gatherers), or older women already married with children of their own?
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NO idea where you live or what you've experienced, but the majority of the situations I've witnessed first hand were the exact opposite. Many a man has cheated on his thin wife/girlfriend with a thick woman.
Not to sound cruel, but again, a woman is better than no woman. Yes, many men do "cheat" with "thick women". Many men have a nasty "freeloader" streak that compells them to be opportunistic sexually. They will take sex at little or no cost if it is offered. Is it that "thick" women are preferred for illicit sex, or are they simply more willing and available?
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So while you have a point on what attracts a man may be physical, what keeps a man is (or should be) much more than that.
Here, we agree. If *all* a man cared about when it came to a woman was her physical attributes, then he would be rather shallow. I don't think that is the case with the vast majority of men. I'm not arguing that a woman's physical beauty is the only valid criteria, just that is it is a valid one.
Here's the stuff that got me on my soapbox to begin with. You went from saying that MOST men find a certain type of woman visually attractive, to saying that MOST men will compromise their integrity and decency for that type of woman. In the first post, you said it was understandable and even expected that a man would cheat on or abandon a larger woman for the smaller. Yet if the same man cheats on the smaller woman with the larger one, he's just a ho. You even portrayed the larger woman negatively by suggesting they are the go-to women for 'illicit' sex. Or that they are 'easier'. As if a relationship with a larger woman is settling for less in some way. It's one thing to say that some study shows that out of a group of men asked, X number said they prefer this type of woman. It's another thing entirely to suggest that when said man breaks his committment by cheating or abandoning his partner, it's all because it's 'hard-wired'. Oh wait, that's only if she's thin. If she's not, then he's just being BAD.
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Ok hold up. You want me to believe these 36HHs, curvy hips, shapely legs, smooth skin, gorgeous eyes and knock-out smile aren't sexually attractive? Give me a f--king break.
No. I didn't say that. I said that you are less so (to the vast majority of men) than a woman shaped more like Halle Berry, and that it's not that most men have been brainwashed to prefer someone who looks like Halle Berry. It's "hard-wired".
Actually you did.
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If you choose to be a "proud BBW" just understand that you are making a choice. You are choosing comfort and ease over sexual attractiveness and desirability to the opposite sex, by-in-large.
When you said that being comfortable as a larger woman means I'm giving up being sexually attractive in favor of being happy with myself. What men like to LOOK AT and what men like to BE WITH are two different things. Don't paint MOST men with this shallow brush. I'll grant that looks may get a man to the door, but it's what inside that determines whether he walks through. So what's inside? A happy one because she loves who she is or a not so happy one, because she has to work so hard to make MOST men happy?
If I misinterpreted your words, by all means show me, but what I understood you to say is that this 'hard-wired' preference most men supposedly have is a valid reason for mistreating someone who doesn't fit that ideal.
< Message edited by luvdragonx -- 7/31/2005 9:34:04 PM >
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RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women - 
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