RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (Full Version)

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BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (8/1/2005 12:13:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: quietkitten
You are right luvdragon

I am walking away from this one too. I am tired of being judged by people who have no clue about who I am..
frankly... I am just plain tired......
I'm with you QuietKitten and Luvdragonx out of here, and done with this..... M

quote:

Fastlane, I don't think there's anything wrong with knowing what makes your d*** rise (sorry, crass, lol)... Anyone who gives you shit for it should get a life and more self respect.. M

quote:

The reality is that we will be found attractive by some portion of the population and not by others no matter WHAT we look like. Isn't that good enough?
fate



miikaawaadizi -> RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (8/1/2005 1:10:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: quietkitten
you have obviously not read one word that I have written and have just bascially taken the tone of the thread and assumed that it was my arguement.


No, I responded to your remark about your view of someone else's posts, in which you seemed to show one particular opinion. I responded to that opinion with one of my own about the topic you raised.

quote:

ORIGINAL: quietkitten
I ahve at no point in this thread or any other thread called anyone shallow for having a ceratin preference for hair color, body type, sexual orientation, height, weight, clothing preference.... OR any other characteristic. If you can find a posting where I have said any of these things...please I would really like to see them.


I never said you did, you posted about the impressions of the thread, I replied with my impressions of the thread, and how they always seem to go.

quote:

ORIGINAL: quietkitten
but at one point in time I was very heavy. I am still exactly the same person I was then.. same personality same IQ same everything.. just less fat. It pisses me off that people assume I am heavy because I am arguing against discrimination based on size.


that you're so defensive over general comments is probably indicative of something you're pissed off with, but I'm pretty sure the assumptions are on your end not mine. I never assumed anything about you other than what your postings indicated. your assumption seems to be that anyone that argues against your points is instantly judging you to be fat ... interesting.

it sounds to me as if it's your own past you're still fighting, not the point you're at with your self-image vs body-image currently. try not to take things as aimed so personally at you ... trust me, if I was talking to you, I'd have said so. make general comments, expect general responses.

seems that all of this portion of the discussion is a thinly veiled attempt to embarass people who might disagree with you by accusing them of making personal attacks. (un?)fortunately, I'm not much of one for political correctness, that technique is pretty much wasted, so if you can't actually debate the points rationally, you're pretty much screwed ... "whatever" is not a valid debating tactic.

~miika



RiotGirl -> RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (8/1/2005 2:39:00 PM)

quote:

If some of the posts in this thread are to be believed all you have to do is gain 50+lbs and men will stop coming on to you. We all have our crosses to bear.


pretty much my point that it sucks from both ends



fourpeas -> RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (8/1/2005 2:42:58 PM)


I would like to place what I feel the majority of heterosexual women would prefer, given the choice (with apologies to all my male friends who will read this and think me a superficial byotch, because I mean no disrespect to you):
A)A man no less than 6'tall and no heavier than #200
B)Average or better intellect/wisdom/common sense, so we don't have to look at them like "you idiot, I can't believe you just said/did that."
C)He should have a job that requires no more than 40hours/week out of the house, so he can be at home watching the children and cleaning so we can go shopping.
D)He should earn no less than $150,000/year (more if we live in Boston, NY, or LA).
E)His penis should be no less than 7' long, and no less than 5"thick.
F)One should be able to describe him with words like "honest, gentleman, chivalrous, kind, dignified, respectful, reasonable, generous, decent.
G)Given the choice, we would like for the men we F*** to be younger than 40, because women too apreciate youth, and the ability to go all night should we desire to play that way.


WOW... LMAO... This is really hilarious... Just had to respond to it before reading the rest of the thread, have been working like a dog all week long... WOW...




fourpeas -> RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (8/1/2005 3:00:16 PM)

In response to Faramir:

my original purpose in starting this wasn't to man-bash. If I wanted to do that, I would have started a man-bashing thread.

I just get frustrated because I feel like most women feel so many negative things because of men who don't even know what they're saying or the implications attached to it. This doesn't even have to be about weight, it can be about preferences, etc.

So if that is "thinly veiled" then that's fine. To me the main issue was the fact that most of these posts on the board were referring to women's bodies, but were started by men. It's not a new thing; it is an age-old thing that men have been imposing their standards upon us for millennia....

Is that "man-hating"? No, I think that is my reaction against the society that has a double standard for men and women. And being a part of a community where I take on part of that double standard (In the sense that I am a strong, independent women who chooses to serve my mate and take on more traditional gender roles in that sense) I think it only serves me and my fellow people in this community to *talk* openly about it.

I don't think recognizing the glaring gender inequalities in our society translates to a thinly veiled criticism of men themselves. That's not my intent. I have many, many wonderful men in my life and I don't "hate" men.

But when I walk down the street and all I hear is "hiss hiss" and "hey baby," yes, I do understand you, RiotGirl, when she talked about feeling sick of being a hole with two legs. And I think *all* women have felt like that, have had those statements made to them. Every single woman has. And that has nothing to do with attractiveness. It has to do with men feeling like they are entitled to do that, to say things to us when we walk down the street, to stop us, to use force against us, to be violent with us... I don't think that all those instances in which men take advantage of women are vastly different from men feeling like it's "okay" for men to dictate how women look, how women feel.

Do you see though, why, where I have *chosen*, where I have consensually *chosen* and made the decision to be a submissive, why this conversation might be important? I don't have those feelings toward my Dom... I don't feel like I am a hole with two legs... I don't feel like I am being used, because I am being consensual. However when those things are non-consensual it really bothers me! And my Dom and I have had a gazillion conversations about things like this because he was raised in a staunchly liberal feminist hippie family (believe it or not.)

It is a recurring conversation for us that the same man who ties me up and beats me is the same man who holds the signs saying "Equality for Women" and who puts all the females in his life first and has never hurt another person, touched anyone in anger, or felt the need to control every aspect of my life. It is a conversation we have often because we don't totally understand it, and we're seeking to. It is an interesting paradox that we have a dynamic in which I submit yet he believes firmly that we are complete equals and the only way he would accept my submission is when I am making an *aware choice* to consensually submit.

Anyways.. that's sort of a tangent, but those are conversations that I have often with my Dom.


And about the submissive/feminist thing:

I am a submissive and a feminist. I don't "Bow Down" to my Dom; I *serve* and *love* and *honor* him. And I do what he asks, because I serve, love, and honor him.

I believe I am a feminist because that is MY CHOICE to give him some of that power, it is MY CHOICE to be a submissive, it is not something that I am doing without thinking. I am well aware that my submission is powerful and to be respected and ... in some cases.... feared... *wink*

It has been interesting to read the responses to this. I hope that it is clear I am here to be respectful and to honor all, and not to flame. Thanks.



RiotGirl -> RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (8/1/2005 3:00:24 PM)

Four peas, you beat me too it. Oh and i'm not a COMPLETE man hater.. just sick to death of them and their penis'. Really quite disgusting. I just hate them when they lose blood to the thinking head.

NOW i must be honest. My preferences. Gots to be tall. Has to have dark hair. Dont like largely overwieght or obese men. i like light eyes. Dont like bald or balding men. Dont like men with fat hanging off their jowls.. really disgusting. yeah NO SHORT MEN.

Lets see.. what i like.. is a guy around 6 feet.. but not TOO tall.. no 6'7ers.. good head of hair.. dark is a must.. light eyes preferable.. but i can usually over look if they havent.. MUST have good muscelar shoulders.. good jaw line.. and a certian look in the eye. i like meat on the bones.. muscle is usually good for the meat. But its okay if its not all muscle. i like tats and piercings.. and i HATE whiney cry babies. i like my men to NOT be biatches. What a real turn off. Oh and penis size... (the man's achilles heel when it comes to convo) Not to large and not too small. Dont like the big ones, they hurt and dont like the small ones as its just redundant to my finger. i mean really guys, why use you when i can just use a finger? heh heh hehehehehehehe. Oh and your wallet.. i could care less as long as you dont come asking me for money.

But see..me being not a man... if the personality doesnt fit.. well BLAH. i mean i dont wnnt a tall dark and handsome guy that acts like a girl. Yeah and he's got to be able to keep his penis in his pants too...

Personally with relationship and crap like that.. or looking for some one.. i dont think its about finding a perfect person.. i think its about finding the perfect person for you.

And if i'm not looking to have a relationship with you.. then i could careless what you look like. And if you dont fit the above criteria.. dont expect me to be kissing ya any time soon and generally, you'll well know it.

And yeah its not easy finding the perfect person for you, but if you can figure out what you want and keep looking.. you'll get there as i have. BUT atleast i have respect for humans, and class that i dont need to go around telling everyone that they arent good enough for me.



RiotGirl -> RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (8/1/2005 3:14:43 PM)

Hehehe, hope ya didnt mind my post before this four peas. But i loved what you had to say and i think you said it well. As for thinly veiled.. well tell me apart of you doesnt secretly hate men for all of this? So what if ya do. Cant expect some one to do something unpleasant, treat you like crap and put your down and not have negtive feelings about it.

then again i do think it might be abit of a self esteem issue at times. think of it like this. If you and your man were looking at a playboy/girl magazine.. and the girl points out a picture and says "whoa... look at the size of that penis" Your man is going to feel either one fo two ways. If he's insecure about his penis (which most men usually are.. hehehehe) he's not going to feel to great.. but if he's secure about his penis.. its not gonna bother him one bit.

And for you guys.. how'd you like to walk around with us girls and we're always point out other guy's crotches? "he looks like he's got a mighty package in there" Among other things.

RiotGirl's way to even the score. RiotGirl will go to a club and walk up to every man she sees... "too fat" "too short" "too bald" "too ugly".. (and if she sees one that is okay looking) She'll walk up and flirt, getting him thinking Oooooooooh, turn around and walk away. i literally walk up to every guy and tell him whats wrong with him. "saggy butt"

Why not? Its pretty much how they act to us. They are either hootin and hollering over some girl, or putting down another. Why not just turn the tables ladies? See how they like a dose of their own medicine?



subcheryl -> RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (8/1/2005 3:29:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

All I have said on this thread is that if you choose to be fat, it's a choice, and it's not a choice without consequences with respect to your sexual desirability. Saying that it is without consequences is a lie, and really, most women know that it's a lie. In my opinion, promoting that lie to women under the guise of empowerment is a huge disservice that does nobody any good.




I beg to differ with you on the pt that it is a choice to be fat. Some of us don't have a choice to whether or not we are fat. I know many who have almost killed themselves having stomach surgery to help them eat less, or taking diet pills or any number of things. There is such things as medical reasons, heredity and things of this nature that also determine the size of the person, I come from a family of seven, on both my mothers side and my fathers side the grandparents where well endowed people, my mother was a short woman, in her prebaby yrs she was beautiful, as time went on she became,as the saying goes, almost as wide as she was tall. My dad was a towering 6'2" weighing in at 220-240 lbs. depending on the time of yr.Now out of the seven of us kids only one is really near his ideal weight and that is with a healthy overhang, the rest of us are on the short stocky side, and I know everyone of us at one time or other have lost weight and gained it all back. One brother was in the military just under their weight restrictions and when he came out it all came right back on. yes you can choose how you live, the way you eat and how much excercise you get, but that doesn't always help, some of us are just that way. I think I am more active than some of the women I know who are much slimmer, I am healthy get sick very little, no colds, flus, none of those little bugs alot of so called healthy counterparts get, because I eat as natural as possible, fresh veggies, as natural as possible meats and fruits. I do what I can with what I have. no at 49 I won't be running any marathons but I certainly can run if I need to, I love walking and working in the yard and garden which master and I are going to build so the veggies we eat next summer and fall I know will be organic and even more healthier for me. and if I thought the neighbors would tolerate it I would have a flock of chickens and a cow or two in my back yard just so I would know they too were organic and not full of growth hormones and preservatives from processing. But yes you are allowed your perferences, but we are allowed our dignities too without being refered to as undesirables.

I'M OUT OF HERE! ! ! ! !



LilyOR -> RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (8/1/2005 3:35:46 PM)

I personally don't see a problem with *anyone* making their preferences for looks (or anything else) known. Sure, there are some socially conditioned reasons men and women have certain preferences. Sure, some people have the wherewithall to examine their preferences, take a hard look, and really dig into the root of those preferences, and modify them. But still...they're still valid and should be voiced. I'd rather a guy say to me "I'm turned off by women with large calves" and be honest, than follow some politically correct rule and then be disappointed later. Being up front gives both parties power of knowledge, regardless of the motivation or source of the preference or prejudice.

For me, I'm turned off by certain physical features like lots of extra weight. But for me it goes deeper than just the look of it. It has implications about someone's lifestyle, which is what REALLY gets my attention. Understand that I'm not an image of physical perfection, but one can tell by looking at me that I take care of myself. I feel (and this is only my opinion, and know there are exceptions) that an extreme amount of excess weight is due to inactivity, and poor eating habits. I am an active person, and eat healthfully (mostly). This is an important core part of my lifestyle ethic, and I simply want a partner who shares that. It's a simple matter of compatability, and physical cues are one (of many) way to read that.

Lil



tetheredkitty -> RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (8/1/2005 3:48:39 PM)

I've got to second the notion that we don't all choose to be heavy. As I've said before, I work out an hour a day at least (weights, squats, leg lifts, crunches, swimming, jogging, walking, etc.) I eat a healthy diet of less than 2000 cal. a day. I usually eat a low fat cereal for breakfast, a snack (like raisins, animal crackers, etc) for lunch, then a piece of roasted chicken for dinner. If I snack, its something like an orange or occasionally half a sandwhich made with light lunch meat. Still almost 200 lbs, still a size 14!

I got down to size 3 at one point, by eating less than 500 cal. a day and working out for about two hours a night. I was doing rodeo queen contests at the time and was bound and determined to be thin. I was weak and I got sick all the time.

Now I'm healthy, my vital signs are better, I can run farther, lift more, exercise harder. I don't get sick and I'm strong enough to throw 90lb hay bales onto a truck.



LilyOR -> RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (8/1/2005 4:07:55 PM)

One other thing.

There's all this talk about "what is really physically fit?" and "even larger women may be fit". It seems like there are myriad definitions of "fit", when really...there's 1 good objective way to measure it. Thought I'd mention it here.

The best way to evaluate if your size is healthy for your frame and height is to take a body fat to muscle ratio measurement of 3 locations on your body with calipers: upper arm, abdomen, and thigh. Then weigh yourself, and measure your height. Any fitness professional can do it for you, and it's wonderfully empowering, I might add. Please keep in mind that using height and weight alone is a poor way to evaluate this.

It's true. Larger women can be really fit. But the honest truth is in the measurements. Unlike the classic "height weight" thing I grew up with, this takes frame and muscle mass into account, resulting in a really accurate assessment. Having lots of muscle, or a larger than normal frame may make you appear larger, sure. That describes me up and down. For example, I am 5'1 and a size 12. I have a very stocky strong build, and am big boned. My trainer was able to tell me exactly how many pounds of *fat* I'd have to lose to be in the best, most reasonable shape I could be in. Reasonable is the key word here...a size 10 suits my frame perfectly, without having to starve myself or be underwieght, or miserable all the time. He was able to give me a reasonable, attainable goal (lose 8 lbs of fat). Again...more of that "power of knowledge" thing. But honestly? The proof is in the measurements.

Is it easy and effortless to be healthy that way? Of course not. Am I after beauty queen status? Oh my lord, no. It takes work to be healthy in our society. The food companies are like drug pushers. "Eat this it's yummy". God, it IS yummy, too! But if I failed to exercise regularly, and let myself eat anything I want just because "I should be able to because I'm an American!"...I'd quickly balloon up to a much larger, less healthy size. So, I make compromises in my life. I don't get to eat as much yummy stuff, I have to eat my romaine every week, and watch my portions. Sometimes I slip and go for it! But I feel so good about myself, regardless of occasional slips, because I know that regardless of whether I was 20, 50, or 100 pounds too heavy for health...I'm taking real actions to live healthfully. Actions speak louder than words, especially when it comes to physical health.

Take this post how you will, it's just my opinion, and 2 cents.

Lil



zaynab -> RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (8/1/2005 5:36:26 PM)

luvdragonx: "It's like the chicken and the egg debate. Which came first?"
The chicken came first.



MsIncognito -> RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (8/1/2005 5:59:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

RiotGirl's way to even the score. RiotGirl will go to a club and walk up to every man she sees... "too fat" "too short" "too bald" "too ugly".. (and if she sees one that is okay looking) She'll walk up and flirt, getting him thinking Oooooooooh, turn around and walk away. i literally walk up to every guy and tell him whats wrong with him. "saggy butt"

Why not? Its pretty much how they act to us. They are either hootin and hollering over some girl, or putting down another. Why not just turn the tables ladies? See how they like a dose of their own medicine?


Get help. Seriously.



zaynab -> RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (8/1/2005 6:02:32 PM)

RiotGirl,
It was like that for me also, many times in my life. It got so bad at one point that I purposely gained about 25 lbs, wore nothing but baggy bland colored clothes, never wore any make-up, never took time to make my hair look nice... basically, I looked like shit.

My Dad asked me one day... why I was like that... so I told him... so men would leave me alone. He asked if it was working.... I said yes, he looked amazed (don't know why that would be amazing, duh!)

The 3 foot rule thing regarding men, I was like that for a very long time too. How about grocery shopping? Isn't it fun to manuever your cart around, always being way out of the way of the male shoppers? Kinda like pushing it through a maze.

One guy stood 2 feet away from me at a grocery store (not on purpose for any reason, he didn't even notice me standing there) and I almost had a panic attack, couldn't breathe, felt like attacking him physically but calmly moved away and went in a different cashier line.

I healed emotionally to some degree over the years... and I do love men.

I've always taken a totally different view of men, during my entire life... seeing that all males around me wanted to have sex with me, I accepted it. The fact that my male friends all want to screw me gives me a lot of power over them... does it hurt my feelings? It can't now, I already view that as a fact of life.

I also think of it as a compliment, my male friends think I'm sexy? I can live with that.
I hope you get some peace about what you wrote about. You definitely deserve it. ~ zay



Leonidas -> RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (8/1/2005 6:24:35 PM)

quote:

It's an easy way out to say "it's not my fault, I'm hard wired that way" rather then say "I've made a conscious choice". ;)


Funny, that's exactly what christian fundamentalists say about gay folks. They're taking the easy way out saying that they're oriented that way. They could choose to stop being immoral and reform if they wanted to. It's a conscious choice afterall.

If you really believe that the part of human beings that's "in charge" is reason, you either live in a different world than I do, or you don't get out much. There are older and more powerful forces at work in humans than the conscious mind, though I know most folks don't like to think so. I don't, nor would I want to, have any more control over what woman attracts me than the fact that it is a woman, and not a man, that does. I think that for people to try diminishes them, rather than empowers them. It's an odd point of view I know, but it happens to be mine. Opinions vary, to be sure.




Leonidas -> RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (8/1/2005 6:36:40 PM)

quote:

Reasonable is the key word here...a size 10 suits my frame perfectly, without having to starve myself or be underwieght, or miserable all the time.


And, I would be willing to bet, that you would be very healthy looking and optimally attractive at that weight. Fit doesn't mean malnourished. It means fit. However, I don't think that you'll find many fit women referring themselves as "BBW" though. "BBW" is not a euphamism for fit by any measure. Just to use a well known example again, Lucy Lawless (Xena on TV) was a size 10-12. I don't think that she, or anyone, would ever call her a "BBW". She was fit at that weight, and she looked it. Serena Williams is another good example. Size 10. Model thin? No. Fit? Surely. An example of a BBW??? Nah.



Leonidas -> RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (8/1/2005 7:28:17 PM)

quote:

Sexy is most definitely not a look, and being heavier most definitely does not cause a man to leave


So, all the women who say "I gained a few pounds and his eye started wandering" or "I put on some weight with the kids and he wouldn't touch me anymore" have no clue? I do hope you're not going to say that this is not a common complaint among women. That would be incredible at best.

quote:

It is really narrow and irresponsible to try to fool anyone into thinking that the only way a woman has decent chances of connecting with/being loved by most men is if she is younger and thinner.


I don't know about irresponsible, but it's not true. Men (and women) will gravitate toward the most attractive (physically and otherwise) mate that they can get. No, you don't have to be young and fit to have a man, and I didn't say that. What I did say was that you are at an advantage (with most men) if you are. Most men (again not all) will take a young, fit, nubile woman if they can get one. It is what they are naturally inclined to do, for reasons that I have explained. You aren't really trying to say that men don't, and won't, are you? If you really believe that, do yourself a little experiment. Make a profile with a picture that looks like Rosy O'Donnell. Make another one with a picture that looks like Jessica Simpson. Count the responses. Now, take any one of the men who responded to the "Rosy O'Donnell" profile (preferably one who said he likes a larger woman) and send him mail from "Jessica Simpson". See if he turns down Jessica to pursue Rosy. You really think I'm fooling anyone? Who do you think you're fooling?

quote:

What becomes of the small women who seemingly are "perfect" physically but commit suicide?


I don't quite get your point here. Are you saying that depression and suicide is more common among fit women that overweight women? I don't know for sure, but I doubt it. Intuitively, I'd say it's the opposite, based only on what I know about the effect of proper diet and exercise on mood. If you have information to the contrary, I'd love to see it.

quote:

I really resent your saying that when men cheat with slim women it's because she is more desirable, and when with thick women it's because she is easier (must be nice to use whatever reasoning you see fit to win your argument, false or not).


If you're going to resent something, resent something that I actually said. I said that most men will have illicit sex if it is offered at little or no cost, and with the most attractive woman offering. I know that you resent the notion that many "thick" women are starved for male attention, but many, in fact, are. Does that make them "easier" (as a group) than super-model types? I'm thinking yes, as odd as that may seem to you.

quote:

Being thin is not without consequence, and being fat is not without consequence.


Your inference (based on what you said above) is that depression and suicide are natural consequences of being fit. If you work hard, and are fit, you'll be self-hating and miserable. I'll say it again. That's an apologist lie dressed up like empowerment that actually disempowers women.





miikaawaadizi -> RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (8/1/2005 10:31:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zaynab
I've always taken a totally different view of men, during my entire life... seeing that all males around me wanted to have sex with me, I accepted it. The fact that my male friends all want to screw me gives me a lot of power over them... does it hurt my feelings? It can't now, I already view that as a fact of life.


this might sound strange, coming from one that follows the philosophies I do, but our femininity does give us a power over Men. again, it's a hard-wiring issue - males are hard-wired to be more masculine in response to females being feminine.

I'm not talking swaggering macho "masculine", though. if you look at society historically, and think back to the 40's, 50's and early 60's, women were still within more "conventional" roles. ignore whether or not you agree with those roles for a moment, but look at the gender interactions. women were encouraged/expected to be feminine and pleasing, and on the flip side, men were more mannered and gentlemanly in many respects.

this action/reaction effect was a natural state of affairs - the genders were balanced, each projecting one "aura", triggering the opposite in the opposite gender. women were feminine, and Men responded by being more masculine, which in turn caused women to be feminine.

looking at the tail end of the post -



quote:

ORIGINAL: zaynab
I also think of it as a compliment, my male friends think I'm sexy? I can live with that.


RiotGirl aside, how many women don't feel complimented when a Man pays them attention, is "male" around them (again, not talking actions, but rather "aura"). on the flip side, how many men don't feel that protective/gentlemanly instinct kick in when around someone who is "feminine"?

once upon a time, being feminine played a large role in finding a mate, settling down, having a child and 2.5 picket fences, domestic bliss and tranquility. but now you're not allowed to be feminine, the criteria used for selecting mates for both genders are based on artificially imposed constructs, there's no reason for you to strive to fight for a mate through your femininity. now, no-one is allowed to care if you're fat or thin, they're not allowed to choose based on how they react to you on a visceral level. so why make the effort?

we once had as much power over men as men did over women. our "feminine wiles" would cause Men to react to us, a reaction we controlled, and vice versa. one reason that power was lost to us to a large degree, as it was to Men, is as "collateral damage" in the fight for equality in roles.

so a lot of Men look at us and think of nothing but having sex with us. how many women look at Men and see nothing more than a walking meal ticket? RiotGirl's approach isn't unique. both "new" gender interactions are the gold standard of society. and neither of them is natural. no, Men solely thinking of sex isn't natural, sex isn't supposed to be the sole motive, procreation and sustaining the species is. there's a difference between the two outlooks.

RiotGirl advocates the "use them, abuse them, show them the door" approach. in that, she is no better than the males she despises. as with any tit-for-tat cycle, the cycle will never end. her reaction is typical of the response to the violation of the natural hard-wired order of gender interactions, just as the male string-vest, beer swilling, pot bellied one is.

but when you think about it, given the amount of discrimination against women for their size, there are a lot of "happy BBWs" that have little trouble attracting partners or even just interest from males. you have to wonder why that is, what counteracts the discrimination? perhaps they're simply triggering that response in Men? nature will over-ride conscious thought every time. if a BBW is happy within herself, and is feminine in how she projects herself, I'm pretty sure that she'll provoke that reaction from Men. as Master Leonidas pointed out:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
Men (and women) will gravitate toward the most attractive (physically and otherwise) mate that they can get. No, you don't have to be young and fit to have a man, and I didn't say that. What I did say was that you are at an advantage (with most men) if you are. Most men (again not all) will take a young, fit, nubile woman if they can get one.


who has an easier time projecting femininity? one that meets the criteria for "ideal" as a woman to begin with, or is close to it, or one that deviates from that "norm"? why do some Men go against that "norm"? what is that "otherwise"?

~miika



zaynab -> RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (8/1/2005 11:08:53 PM)

Miika...
"we once had as much power over men as men did over women."

I believe that we have always had more power over men... and that we still do. Men have testosterone that drives them to us... they are the pitchers but if they don't have any catchers, the balls would just end up going nowhere.

"Men solely thinking of sex isn't natural."

What's the latest scientific data on how many times per second the average male thinks about sex? Isn't it about 69?



Tormentius -> RE: Re: BBW, BDSM, Projection of Body Values onto Women (8/1/2005 11:53:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

RiotGirl's way to even the score. RiotGirl will go to a club and walk up to every man she sees... "too fat" "too short" "too bald" "too ugly".. (and if she sees one that is okay looking) She'll walk up and flirt, getting him thinking Oooooooooh, turn around and walk away. i literally walk up to every guy and tell him whats wrong with him. "saggy butt"

Why not? Its pretty much how they act to us. They are either hootin and hollering over some girl, or putting down another. Why not just turn the tables ladies? See how they like a dose of their own medicine?


Get help. Seriously.


Nicely said.

Taking advantage of a person (as illustrated by riotgirl) just because one hates the gender is plain out pathetic.



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