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A Dilemma - maybe it won't end sad - 10/15/2007 2:46:11 PM   
mta


Posts: 6
Joined: 10/15/2007
Status: offline 		Short intro:  I'm 47, my ex turns 50 on Halloween.  We've been together for 30 years (if you don't count the divorce).  We've been outwardly kinky since I "came out" to him 15 years ago, and we were 50's style D/s before that.  We weren't trying to be kinky . . . we were just doin' what came naturally to us.  ;)

I love this guy and I can’t help it.  He’s a great guy – got the kindest heart and the sweetest spirit a girl could want.   Some people might think that I’m stupid asking this question in a “master” forum, but they’re idiots, and I am not.   This guy drives me balls-to-the-walls crazy with stuff (maybe that should be ovaries to the walls), especially financial stuff.  Like, if he gets a water bill – he can pay it, but he doesn’t until they threaten to turn the water off.  Same with property taxes and insurance … GOD, maybe I really need a shrink.  A bit of history:  

We were married for close to 30 years.  Like I said, I really like him a lot – there is a great deal to like.  I got past the financial stuff because I’m a sneaky sub … I paid bills in secret.   We bought a house that … to say it was a fixer-upper would be a massive understatement, but we bought it 10 years ago thinking that we would fix it up.  I left my “ex” almost three years ago.  It’s not that I didn’t or don’t both like and love him – it’s just that I’m a home person.  I’m not the sort who goes out much and the like.  I feel like I am responsible for my home.  But I dunno what to do with a home where floors rot and there is water in the basement and the foundation is iffy and floors sink and … YIKES!  The kitchen is downright disgusting, the bathroom would likely be condenmed. 

And he thinks he should be able to fix it (although half of the contractors I’ve talked to scratch their heads and ask ME what to do), but he doesn’t have time anyway and never did.  He works really hard outside the home – long hours.   I think we have a plan in place to fix it.  I think it could work.  I think we could love that house.   I have money to fix it.  I want to fix it. 

Our kids are long-since adults (though still living at home at the ages of 26 and 28 – another one of the issues that I cannot stand but he’s always just puts up with.  We’ve negotiated and they’ve been given a deadline of April 1 to be out.).     My ex still sucks with bills. 

He is a nice guy in most every way you could imagine.  His one vice (other than me) is beer, he works very hard – 50 hours per week.  He’s part owner of a business that is makin’ bank.  In the home, he really reeks at being a responsible businessman.     We’ve been separated 2 and half years, and I learned today that the IRS had sent him a notice to file for judgment on taxes for 2003.  I always filed my taxes on time and always paid them.  They found something wrong on taxes for 2003 . . . but I left him in April 2004 and wasn’t getting the notices.  My ex never told me.  I went today to help him with his taxes, and he gave me a stack of paper … fuck, he never even warned me. 

You’d think that a notice of intent to file for judgment would be memorable, would be significant – especially if someone you cared about was named on it but knew nothing about it.  Crap.  

So I worked these three three years to get my credit rating up to a respectable level and did finances the way *I* would do them (since I was on my own) – and it’s been so much better.  Then I saw that notice and felt ambushed.  I felt side-swiped, like I’d walked into a land mine.  

We had agreed when discussing reconciling that I would be both bookkeeper and secretary – THAT IS WHAT I DO – I like organizing and number-crunching … call me perverted!   I understand that he hates, hates, hates this stuff.  But he kept telling me that there were no financial secrets anymore.  He’s no big spender, he’s just really bad at acknowledging where he stands financially.  He hates paying money to people.  Who doesn’t?  He makes a decent living, and there is no reason that he need to be living in this kind of uncertainty and anxiety … other that he hates dealing with it.   I do NOT mind dealing with it, but I won’t tolerate watching my dom (and the love of my life) financially side-swipe himself over and over again … and me along with him.  It’s just too hard – it makes me all crazy and anxious and deeply depressed.  

Master-wise, well – we’ve got all the toys and goodies – I do (and always have) bring him meals and coffee and whatever I perceive he wants in addition to whatever he openly says.  He’s very fun and smacks me around (on the fleshy butt and leg parts) out of sheer joy.  We have D/s sex because it rocks and we love it.  I’m no slave though (indebted by something somewhere that made me give my life away or whatever) – it’s all fueled by joy.  So is sex.  So is B&D and all that good stuff.  

And we’re good at having fun with each other … wanna drive on the edge of cliff, race around in a fast boat, sit naked in a lithium spring, snorkel, parasail, zip line, take a helicopter ride and land on top of a glacier – then run around up there for awhile … WE LOVE THAT STUFF!  

We really suck at the grownup stuff – the inability to deal with money stuff is killing us – and please understand that it is NOT the inability to pay that is hurting us.  Years ago, we lived robbing Peter to pay Paul, and even pawned a TV set for baby formula.  But what’s happening now is different – we could simply pay Paul and be done with him.  

Any debt (that I know of) to IRS or state taxes was paid as of 2 pm today.  I still feel really betrayed and untrusting.  I don’t want to do this anymore.  It feels hopeless to me … I don’t want to put myself out there again.  But it’s not like he’s got a gambling problem or a drug problem or anything like that.  He’s just plain irresponsible.  I told him that counseling is no longer an option.  It’s a non negotiable part of reconciling, so said subbie li’l me.  <sigh>  

Is there any hope for us?

< Message edited by mta -- 10/15/2007 2:51:42 PM >
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RE: A Dilemma - maybe it won't end sad - 10/15/2007 2:56:16 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		One main criteria I ask of in a Dominant is financial/economic success.  Success as in more than the basics of KNOWING, PREDICTING, and BALANCING his own money flow.

Just as a man should be able to take care of his own car, a man should be able to NOT be careless with money and to spend it wisely. I don't agree with spendthrifts but someone who prioritizes gadgets over food?

How can someone who cannot control mere paper and coin in his hand assume to control other human beings?  It is the basic foundation of living in a capitalist society: to FUNCTION with as little economic stress as possible.

(in reply to mta)
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RE: A Dilemma - maybe it won't end sad - 10/15/2007 3:09:14 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Well, at his age, he isn't going to change. And neither are you. Why not just go out in dates with him?

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to mta)
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RE: A Dilemma - maybe it won't end sad - 10/15/2007 3:10:41 PM   
mta


Posts: 6
Joined: 10/15/2007
Status: offline 		Well, we are talking about a falible human being here, and he has his own issues. 

You said "Just as a man should be able to take care of his own car ..." - there was a point, early on, when we had no car.  It was an unfortunate set of circumstances - but the choice was food and heat for our apartment, or parts to fix the jeep.  It was an awful time for that part of the country, many people were hungry and cold.  He didn't fix the jeep.  He rode a bike to work in Coeur d'Alene, ID in the dead of winter when it was stinkin' cold and the roads were ice.  He did that.  I don't hold that against him.  If I had metals that I could bestow upon him, that would most certainly be one.

This was never intended to be an invitation to disrespect my man.  He worked really hard and provided at times when it was very difficult and went through great discomfort himself to provide for us. 

I was talking about something different.  :(


(in reply to came4U)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: A Dilemma - maybe it won't end sad - 10/15/2007 3:11:24 PM   
PryderiLoup


Posts: 90
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		While I agree with came4u in principle, I have another thought. I am a manger, and my boss taught me something very important. We are not all good at everything. He taught me to delagate what I was not good at.

If he is your dom, whether you call it that or not, and he is not good with money, he can simply assign that to you. It sounds as if that is your strength. He should use it.

As far as this not being "domly" the point of being a dom is to use the sub for the betterment and enjoyment of BOTH partners. If you did not already love him, leaving him alone might be an option. But since you do, make it work.

Good luck.

(in reply to came4U)
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RE: A Dilemma - maybe it won't end sad - 10/15/2007 3:13:16 PM   
mta


Posts: 6
Joined: 10/15/2007
Status: offline 		:)

I have had my home for sometime, and for a long time we spent time there when we weren't "out" on the town.

I do like that and we have done that for some time.

But ... I don't want to go home anymore.  :)

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: A Dilemma - maybe it won't end sad - 10/15/2007 3:17:42 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

I don’t want to put myself out there again.  But it’s not like he’s got a gambling problem or a drug problem or anything like that.  He’s just plain irresponsible. 


I'm not disrespecting your man.  He is not my problem.

Being irresponsible (in general) to ME, is a no-no.  I wouldn't allow someone like that to lead me in any capacity.

I guess I just don't understand your question.


(in reply to mta)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: A Dilemma - maybe it won't end sad - 10/15/2007 3:18:46 PM   
mta


Posts: 6
Joined: 10/15/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks PryderiLoup.  I'm trying really hard not to see this in black and white.  People come in more colors than skintone could ever reveal, IMO.  Thank you suggesting that kink could work with us in this.  I hope so - I'm banking on it.  

Hugs to you,

mta

(in reply to PryderiLoup)
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RE: A Dilemma - maybe it won't end sad - 10/15/2007 3:33:04 PM   
mta


Posts: 6
Joined: 10/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

quote:

I don’t want to put myself out there again.  But it’s not like he’s got a gambling problem or a drug problem or anything like that.  He’s just plain irresponsible. 


I'm not disrespecting your man.  He is not my problem.

Being irresponsible (in general) to ME, is a no-no.  I wouldn't allow someone like that to lead me in any capacity.


Rully, so if such a person was willing to lead you out of jungle, you would decline?  AND, you - your own perfect self - is always responsible in everything in every way?

Please understand that, as OT, I would prefer that this particular thread remain fantasy free.  I know that this place is given to fantasy.  If you want to live out fantasy, you have every other thread in this forum to choose from.  I hope you respect my limits regarding this thread.  Please be assured that I will surely respect yours in whatever other thread particpate.

Thanks much,

mta

(in reply to came4U)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: A Dilemma - maybe it won't end sad - 10/15/2007 3:57:18 PM   
Sabella


Posts: 265
Joined: 7/26/2005
Status: offline 		Sounds like a great guy and good provider, he's just not good with dealing with the end results after making the money. You are frustrated having to deal with it. Yes I think having an accountant to deal with the taxes and retirement funds would be a great idea. Work on a budget plan as well so YOU will know exactly what you're dealing with (extra) on a monthly basis. All of your monthly bills can be setup to be paid via bill-pay at most banks. No more writing checks & sticking stamps on envelopes.

If you've got the money to fix the house move out and get an apartment while it's being renovated. Have all your stuff except the essentials put in storage. You'll often get a much better rate from contractors if you & your stuff aren't there for them to trip over, and they'll get it done faster too. That would be a great way to hurry the kids out of the house too "Guess what kiddies! For the upcoming holiday we're getting the house fixed! BTW we all have to be out on XYZ date, be prepared unless you wanna sleep in the yard, Love Dad & Mom" BUT! If after 10 years if the house is fixed if you're gonna be resentful everytime you think of the house because it took so long - it might be worth fixing it up and selling it and starting fresh somewhere else. Keep this in mind.

You can teach an old dog new tricks, but it's real hard on the old dog and not very successful alot of times. You can however work around the old dog, but it will be harder on you.




_____________________________

“The giant Grof was hit in one eye by a stone,
and that eye turned inward so that it looked into his mind and he died of what he saw there.”
From The Forgotten Beasts of Eld, by Patricia A. McKillip

(in reply to mta)
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RE: A Dilemma - maybe it won't end sad - 10/15/2007 4:12:16 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		When he shows some actual movement and commitment towards changing into a new and responsible adult, THEN you can start discussing a new relationship together.

Until he shows real change, why should anything else change?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Sabella)
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RE: A Dilemma - maybe it won't end sad - 10/15/2007 5:26:11 PM   
PryderiLoup


Posts: 90
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

When he shows some actual movement and commitment towards changing into a new and responsible adult, THEN you can start discussing a new relationship together.

Until he shows real change, why should anything else change?


I think that the issue here is that he is NOT going to change, or at least we have to assume he won't. That makes the most sense when dealing with humans. Instead of rejecting a wonderful person, I think it might work in the OPs favor to find a work around.

I know one sub that kept her dominants to-do list so that he would not forget anything. He chose whether or not to actually do them, but she help him organize. I have had employees thatcould not perform essential functions of their jobs, but they got GREAT results. So I helped them with those areas.

Careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, my Grandmother used to say. (I have always wanted to say that, and never had the right opportunity! )

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: A Dilemma - maybe it won't end sad - 10/15/2007 5:52:39 PM   
juliska


Posts: 4
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline
You have more patience than I do.  I've been there only I didn't put up with it as long as you.  I truly loved him, but the frustrations and worry in my case destroyed my ability to love him unconditionally.  I walked away from him after 8 years, with a lot of difficulty.  No one will ever be like him, but time healed my heart and I have been able to have other better relationships even though I have not been able to love anyone else the same.

I am not saying that you should do the same, you only can make that decision, however, you need to decide exactly what you want to do.  Most importantly, you need to realize and ACCEPT that he is NOT going to change unless he desires to change.  You cannot change him.  No-one can change him, only he can change himself.  Perhaps just dating him is the answer, perhaps not. 

(in reply to PryderiLoup)
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RE: A Dilemma - maybe it won't end sad - 10/15/2007 7:01:34 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		This is what a bookkeeper and an accountant are for.
I know a well known pediatric neurologist,  top professor in the field. He knows himself to be incompetent with money. His accountant does the taxes, his wife and a bookkeeper deal with things day to day referring bigger stuff to the accountant. He gets an allowance. And he's fine with it because he knows he can't handle it. My Dad's a retired CEO, he hasn't paid a bill in 40 years, the exec asst always handled this stuff for him, prepped the checks, brought it in to be signed, then took it and mailed it. His exec secretary retired when he did, she comes in once a week and still does this stuff for him.

Outsource this stuff.

The mail goes in a box when he gets them, he gets a secretary or bookkeeper to come in one morning a week and write out all the checks which he signs and then the secretary mails them. Secretary keeps the checkbook balanced.

He's great at his business. He's a great father and husband. He sucks at money. So take the money away from  him. I bet he'll be thrilled to not have it to worry about any more.

< Message edited by Celeste43 -- 10/15/2007 7:21:36 PM >

(in reply to juliska)
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RE: A Dilemma - maybe it won't end sad - 10/15/2007 7:03:48 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

I would prefer that this particular thread remain fantasy free.  I know that this place is given to fantasy.  If you want to live out fantasy, you have every other thread in this forum to choose from.  I hope you respect my limits regarding this thread.  Please be assured that I will surely respect yours in whatever other thread particpate.


So this is fantasy and I was supposed to gather that from the hobblegosh of a OT?

I may not give you advice or comment for your dilemma that you like but as far as I knew it was a free site. 

If you want to wait around for a grown man to learn math, by all means do so.

(in reply to juliska)
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RE: A Dilemma - maybe it won't end sad - 10/15/2007 8:16:48 PM   
kajirina


Posts: 13
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Do you, can you, respect him?  Because in my experience, if you don't, if you can't, he can't be your Master or your Dominant, only your top.  Some would call that semantics, but I wouldn't, and I don't think you would either. 

I hope you two can work this out.  Please keep us posted.

(in reply to came4U)
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RE: A Dilemma - maybe it won't end sad - 10/15/2007 8:36:46 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PryderiLoup
Careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, my Grandmother used to say. (I have always wanted to say that, and never had the right opportunity! )

Except that we already have in this instance- divorce has occurred.  After that long a period being married and living together, I doubt that was a quick shotgun sort of choice made and followed through with.

There are very good reasons here to NOT have a relationship with this person, to NOT stay tied to all the things she literally divorced herself from.

I don't see any merit here to try and recoup- unless some actual change is shown.  If she just wants a nice guy she can date, she can find someone withOUT all those decades of baggage and continuing heartbreak to find it with.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to PryderiLoup)
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RE: A Dilemma - maybe it won't end sad - 10/15/2007 8:36:48 PM   
downkitty


Posts: 224
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline 		My question would be, "Can you forgive him for not telling you about the IRS situation?"

As far as him sucking at paying bills and managing his personal finances, it seems like y'all have solved that by agreeing that you will be handling that from now on. That problem, which was the only one you could not deal with or accept, will disappear, right?

I agree with the previous poster who mentioned everyone getting out of the house for the remodel/renovation. It will speed the process and get the kids out of the house as an added bonus. I recommend that when they try to come back, which they will, that you charge them rent. I also recommend that the rent be significant enough that they be compelled to find a place and a roommate or two of their own. ;)

So, to me, the last hurdle is the IRS fiasco. Is it going to be an issue?  If you can get over that, then the rest actually seems pretty smooth sailing to me.

Best of luck. I've got my fingers crossed for you.

Respectfully,

Amy


(in reply to mta)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: A Dilemma - maybe it won't end sad - 10/15/2007 9:30:03 PM   
PryderiLoup


Posts: 90
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: PryderiLoup
Careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, my Grandmother used to say. (I have always wanted to say that, and never had the right opportunity! )

Except that we already have in this instance- divorce has occurred.  After that long a period being married and living together, I doubt that was a quick shotgun sort of choice made and followed through with.

There are very good reasons here to NOT have a relationship with this person, to NOT stay tied to all the things she literally divorced herself from.

I don't see any merit here to try and recoup- unless some actual change is shown.  If she just wants a nice guy she can date, she can find someone withOUT all those decades of baggage and continuing heartbreak to find it with.


Awww, geee! Is it allright to be a romantic and a dom?

I do see your point, and a friend of mine seems to agree with you. I cannot help thinking though, that with all those years, and all the evident love, that it can be made to work.

The change would be that OP be responsible for the things she is best at, and that be out in the open and agreed to, instead of her going behind his back. Isn't that enough?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: A Dilemma - maybe it won't end sad - 10/15/2007 10:24:38 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		I realize most people on this site have the perfect partner who is perfect and I am quite happy for them.

Neither myself nor my partner, unlike most on this site, are in any way perfect.  Finding someone who makes your heart happy is important but so is feeling secure.  If the guy can't handle money, don't let  him.  Give him an allowance for his own needs and don't let him touch the real money.

As for things like the house, agree to set a schedule, he has 6 months to fix X and after that you can pay someone to do it.  Find ways to work together to make you each happy. 

Also, shop around for a GOOD therapist who you both really connect with and see if you can find out the root cause of his money issues.  Figuring that out will help you find ways to work around his issues.  If I had the choice of a partner who could handle money he never had and a partner who had money he couldn't handle, the choice would be easy.

(in reply to PryderiLoup)
Profile   Post #: 20
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