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RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/16/2007 1:53:38 PM   
fairerthanshe


Posts: 3035
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline 		Not since my jack boots fell to pieces...

prost ~ fairer


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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/16/2007 1:53:59 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

Enough of the ignoring bandit stuff...what happened to Bob? O.o
He was eulogized on the second page of this thread: http://www.collarchat.com/m_1350300/tm.htm 

(in reply to bandit25)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/16/2007 2:00:15 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

Enough of the ignoring bandit stuff...what happened to Bob? O.o


But what about Bob?

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The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to bandit25)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/16/2007 2:01:48 PM   
Lumus


Posts: 5968
Joined: 9/16/2007
Status: offline 		I've mulled this over a few times, since it seems inevitable to run into a person claiming 'no limits'.  Whenever I do run into such a person, I always start with a disclaimer that runs somewhat in this vein [though not verbatim]:

"I'm intrigued.  Since you feel you have no limits, giving me five minutes of your time to test that theory is simple enough.  In five minutes I will find a limit for you...I always do...and when I do I ask only that you commit it to memory and -never- say again that you have no limits.  Agreed?"

They always agree.  I always find a limit.  A handful of them stick to the agreement and swear off using the no-limit term.

The most common cop-out is usually, "Well, I've never tried that, so I won't call it a limit because I'll try it at least once!"  Bah.  Six ways around that spring to mind even as I type this, but I won't bore anyone with them.  If you get really bored, use the idea for yourself to hijack when the thread goes wonky.

It's interesting to bring up the arousal factor that this fantasy might spark off; my own thought process filtered that down in my head to narcissism by definition.  After all, a person with no limits in your hands still has your limits.  When I want to love myself, I just masturbate.

I like the chainsaw example.  If they really go through with it, the term that immediately springs to mind is 'thinning the herd'.

Oh, and I don't know who Bob is either...but if you really miss him that much, I can dig into the closet of my youthful days and pull out my "Devil's Advocate" beanie.  The propellor still works.


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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/16/2007 2:07:09 PM   
MonsterDom


Posts: 12
Joined: 10/11/2007
Status: offline 		The question really comes down to what is NO LIMITS.

Surely if you wanted to beat them till they were bloodied I think they would have issues with it. No limits does not mean NO LIMITS. It means OPEN to anything in reality.

Just cause i like to cut women open and play with blood does not mean someone with NO LIMITS will do the same. People have NO LIMITS till you find their boundary. That limit usually lies somewhere between inflicting permanent physical harm and death.

hence why i dislike the term NO LIMITS. I prefer to see people say open to anything.

(in reply to Lumus)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/16/2007 2:09:57 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fairerthanshe

Not since my jack boots fell to pieces...

prost ~ fairer



Pulls up the "Horst Wessel" song on the pc, hums along while reading the topic.

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I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to fairerthanshe)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/16/2007 2:24:45 PM   
Jennie13093


Posts: 21
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline 		In response to the "no Limits" thread, i want to let you know i am talking to a Dom right now and last night he told me that a slave can have no limits. i piped up and told him of some of my very Hard Limits. After a bit he realized i did have a very valid point and accepted me with my Hard Limits

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/16/2007 2:33:00 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		greetings bondagenexus,

i am a little bit wary about getting into this conversation at all, but what the hell...most people already think i'm crazy, or don't care, or a mix of the two, so it's not like i have a sparkly collarme reputation to tarnish or anything like that :P

as others have mentioned, depends on how you define no limits. for me, "no limits" does not mean that i would never have any limits with anyone ever period end of story. it means that i choose not to set limits on the man who has collared me; i choose not to set boundaries. obviously if he were drowning me (and i used this example in the other thread) i would fight back physically because that's what my body is supposed to do, but i would do my damndest not to make it any harder than it has to be. obviously my health causes problems...if he were to want me to kneel for 12 hours, i might be crying in pain about an hour through it but i would do my damndest to stay on my knees. to me it means i actively trust in him and choose not to impose any kinds of limits or boundaries on his ownership of me. i don't consider it romantic; personally, walking off a cliff is not my idea of a good time. if he wanted it, i'd do it, but that doesn't mean i live in some wonderful fantasyland of being a no limits slave. we have problems just like any other couple; i have difficulties sometimes accepting or dealing with many things. i like school and i like my life and when my natural way of doing things and looking at things, etc. is changed, it isn't like i just magically accept it and it's all over with and perfect...it's not easy. the thing for me is that i actively cultivate my trust in him and i work on things that i have difficulties with, and i do not consider preferences or things that would physically or psychologically harm me a justification for limiting or setting boundaries on his ownership of me. that, to me, would not be ownership. it would not be true to me as a slave (although i accept and acknowledge that others may feel differently, and that other things work for them, and that's great).

that said, i think if people have limits and expect them to be respected and absolutely not pushed...then what you are getting into is dangerous area that could lead to the breakdown of a relationship. it might lead to good things in the relationship as well, but it's pretty much a crapshoot. if i were in your position i would be very careful about how i choose to "push" hard limits, or who i choose to get involved with and what their respective limits are. i don't think it makes you potentially a bad dominant, but i do think that some submissives can be very touchy about their limits...and hell, until i know you, trust you, and am collared by you, i would probably be pretty touchy about some things, too. it's going to really depend on the person you are with and how much a stickler they are for their limits, though.

respectfully,
annabelle.


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a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/16/2007 2:40:15 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		God, I love the Internet.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to hisannabelle)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/16/2007 2:41:22 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		greetings madrabbit,

out of curiosity, how many times do you have to say that you think anything written about no limits is internet bullshit before you think you've gotten your point across? does it make you feel better each time you say it, or something? because you do repeat yourself an awful lot. i already know you think i'm batty; repeating it over and over again after my every post on this topic won't make me shut up ;)

thoughtfully,
annabelle.

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 10/16/2007 2:50:25 PM >

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a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/16/2007 2:46:34 PM   
InkedMaster


Posts: 342
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		Really I knew better than to click on this thread, I really did, but it's like a fucking train wreck, ya just gotta look...now if ya'll will excuse me, I'm off to put a sharp stick in my eye...

_____________________________

TOURETTE SYNDROME: It's no mother f*cking joke, you God d*mn c*ck sucking f*ck!

"I need this parade like I need a fucking hole in my head." - John F. Kennedy

-Owner of eyesopened- and damn PROUD of her!


(in reply to hisannabelle)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/16/2007 2:53:36 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

greetings madrabbit,

out of curiosity, how many times do you have to say that you think anything written about no limits is internet bullshit before you think you've gotten your point across? does it make you feel better each time you say it, or something? because you do repeat yourself an awful lot.

thoughtfully,
annabelle.



As I have stated, if you want to narrate your relationship this way and have this perspective of "absolute obedience", thats fine. I can understand that headspace and mentality. I really can.

Its the part where you say trust doesnt play a part in your relationship and you dont have any assurance that your Master wont make you walk off a cliff that I consider to be Internet drivel.

At the end of the day, its still the same narration as any other no limit relationship. You having the mentality of "no disobedience and complete surrender" and trust and faith in your Master having some kind of ethical and moral compass that keeps you from being harmed by his actions.

If you want to cloud this logic and rationality to make yourself seem more extreme and more uber then every other "no limit" relationship that functions without damage to the slave, you go right ahead.



_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to hisannabelle)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/16/2007 2:57:55 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		greetings madrabbit,

as i edited to add in before (i apologize for having to edit), why is it that you feel the need to reiterate every time i post about this that you think it's internet drivel, though? i mean, i know you think that, and, you know, whatever floats your boat; i'm not arguing with you about it (anymore). i think everyone who's read both of us posting in a topic on this knows you think that. you might as well put it in your signature already. you telling me you think i'm a nutcase and/or a liar over and over and over again won't change what i'm posting. i don't expect this post to make you stop doing so, but i just don't get why you feel so compelled to repeat it.

respectfully,
annabelle.

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 10/16/2007 3:00:19 PM >

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/16/2007 3:07:17 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

greetings madrabbit,

as i edited to add in before (i apologize for having to edit), why is it that you feel the need to reiterate every time i post about this that you think it's internet drivel, though? i mean, i know you think that, and, you know, whatever floats your boat. i think everyone who's read both of us posting in a topic on this knows you think that. you might as well put it in your signature already. you telling me you think i'm a nutcase and/or a liar over and over and over again won't change what i'm posting. i don't expect this post to make you stop doing so, but i just don't get why you feel so compelled to repeat it.

respectfully,
annabelle.



Because some people might want to learn things by reading this.

I would be more compelled to believe you if you hadnt endlessly contradicated yourself in the other thread.

I dont know. Some people might want to know how a no limit relationship can function within the scope of sanity and reality with the slave being (and remaining) a fully functional human being.

You made claims that the basic components that make a no limit relationship function arent required or even really part of your relationship, but yet...amazingly....here you are not dead with all your limbs and body parts still attached and not under the effects of any major psychological trauma.

I dont see whats difficult to understand that a mentality of not enforcing boundaries (or convincing one's self that they wont enforce boundaries in any situation) isnt the same thing as not actually having boundaries as a flawed human being who is capable of being harmed and dying.

I dont see what is so difficult in understanding that even if a slave develops this mentality, that a Master cant beleive that those boundaries arent there and he cant harm his slave.

I dont see what is so difficult about understanding that a Master has to respect those boundaries unless he wants a dead slave.

And since your not dead and have what you call a "healthy relationship", I am going to have to assume for the sake of logic that your Master does in fact respect those boundaries despite your claims of "not knowing for a fact" that he does.


< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 10/16/2007 3:11:57 PM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to hisannabelle)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/16/2007 3:10:54 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

greetings madrabbit,

out of curiosity, how many times do you have to say that you think anything written about no limits is internet bullshit before you think you've gotten your point across? does it make you feel better each time you say it, or something? because you do repeat yourself an awful lot.

thoughtfully,
annabelle.



As I have stated, if you want to narrate your relationship this way and have this perspective of "absolute obedience", thats fine. I can understand that headspace and mentality. I really can.

Its the part where you say trust doesnt play a part in your relationship and you dont have any assurance that your Master wont make you walk off a cliff that I consider to be Internet drivel.

At the end of the day, its still the same narration as any other no limit relationship. You having the mentality of "no disobedience and complete surrender" and trust and faith in your Master having some kind of ethical and moral compass that keeps you from being harmed by his actions.

If you want to cloud this logic and rationality to make yourself seem more extreme and more uber then every other "no limit" relationship that functions without damage to the slave, you go right ahead.




hmm, imo annabelle's description of a typical no limit, M/s relationship (her own in this case) to be quite sensible, honest, and something very far from internet drivel. but then i'm sure many consider anything i say on the subject to be drivel, fantasy, "romanticizing" or just plain looney, so what can ya do.

this is not an issue i wish to continue beating into the ground, but i will say this: there is a difference between a relationship in which the slave has no limits of her own because the trust in the Master is so great, and the compatibility between the Master and slave so great, that limits are a non-issue, and a relationship in which the slave has no limits of her own because that is part and parcel of being owned (according to that particular couple's beliefs). most people have no difficulty imagining or respecting the validity and existence of the former, but for some odd reason nearly everyone seems to have a difficult time imagining and accepting the validity and existence of the latter.

i am a no limits slave, which to me is a redundant statement, but i won't go there right now. by no limits of course i mean that i have given up all right to personal limits, there is nothing i would refuse my Master, he has carte blanche to do with me as he wills. now of course before i entered such a dynamic with him, i knew him and respected him, and felt that although he was certainly perverted and had his sadistic side, he was sane and his needs and desires weren't likely to lead to my destruction or death (well, at least not without good cause). but i certainly did not have complete trust in him, and we certainly did not share all the same ethics or morals. i also was not foolish enough to think that people never change over time, that what may seem unimagineable today may become a daily reality 5 years from now. imo, something far stronger than trust is needed to make a no limits relationship work. for me it took acceptance, complete unquestioned acceptance of my new place and purpose in life. acceptance that my life is no longer my own, that his desires and whims come before my needs, that from the moment i accepted his collar i exist ONLY for him. when one has reached that level of acceptance, then no limits no longer seems like an outlandish or scary thing. it's just a part of life.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/16/2007 3:16:02 PM   
Bondagenexus


Posts: 50
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks, annabelle.  You have, at the risk of some ridicule, put words around a submissive's thoughts on this and I really appreciate it.

(in reply to hisannabelle)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/16/2007 3:22:35 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

hmm, imo annabelle's description of a typical no limit, M/s relationship (her own in this case) to be quite sensible, honest, and something very far from internet drivel. but then i'm sure many consider anything i say on the subject to be drivel, fantasy, "romanticizing" or just plain looney, so what can ya do.



Yeah, thats it. Thats the word I was looking for.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/16/2007 3:27:01 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

hmm, imo annabelle's description of a typical no limit, M/s relationship (her own in this case) to be quite sensible, honest, and something very far from internet drivel. but then i'm sure many consider anything i say on the subject to be drivel, fantasy, "romanticizing" or just plain looney, so what can ya do.



Yeah, thats it. Thats the word I was looking for.


Same here. Romance is cool-doing it as an excuse isn't.

Probably why the whole "Castle Realmy" thing makes me about lose my lunch. The balloon has a more honest shape-before one inflates it.

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I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/16/2007 3:27:19 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		greetings madrabbit,

except that you are jumping to the conclusion, in my mind, that choosing not to impose boundaries automatically means that all boundaries will be crossed. i'm sure there are tons of kinds of play we will never get into because he simply doesn't have a preference for it, or perhaps because he hasn't quite mastered the resurrection trick and he prefers live slaves. there are things we have done and probably will do that have made me uncomfortable, have threatened my health/life, have put me in dangerous situations, have scared me. i don't claim not to have boundaries in the sense of not being a human being capable of suffering and dying. but i will not impose boundaries on his ownership of me in light of that. i do not make certain kinds of actions limits simply because they are psychologically or physically traumatizing, and yes, we have done things that are psychologically and physically traumatizing. obviously he cares about me to some degree because i am still here, and i would not have gotten into the relationship with him if we were completely incompatible and i thought i'd hate every minute of it. but as daddysprop mentioned, there are a lot of things that i have been exposed to and a lot of things about him that i learned after he collared me that have changed my perspective a little bit (partly why i don't still subscribe to the "well, i'm no limits because i know he'd never DO it" philosophy). as daddysprop said...there is a certain level of something that is required once you realize that things will change, that the person you are submitting to is not necessarily a static human being, that the things you would never imagine doing might actually be done. she spoke of acceptance; i usually talk about it in terms of faith, and my views are a little bit different (primarily because of his influence and his beliefs about submission). but i think it basically makes a lot of sense.

and, uh, i don't make any claims that the relationship is "healthy" or "unhealthy." i like it, it's fulfilling, but my therapist and psychiatrist think i'm a little left of center in the relationship department (and they don't even know the whole story), and as i've said, it is not exactly, physically or psychologically speaking, the poster for health...so...depends on whose definition of healthy we are using.

respectfully,
annabelle.


_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/16/2007 3:29:39 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		greetings bondagenexus,

i am glad you found my words helpful :) i think this has been one of the more constructive threads on this topic (as much as any thread on this topic CAN be on this forum, joking aside and with the understanding that it may deteriorate in the next 30 pages) so i appreciate that you posted it. :)

respectfully,
annabelle.


_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to hisannabelle)
Profile   Post #: 100
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