RE: Giving up war?

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eyeh8f8 -> RE: Giving up war? (10/18/2007 9:09:14 AM)
La Raza (Mexican Spanish IPA: [la ˈrasa]; Castilian Spanish IPA: [la ˈraθa]) is a Mexican Spanish phrase which literally translated as "The Race". It is used to denote the people of Latin America and the Hispanic world, who share the cultural and political legacies of Spanish colonialism, including the Spanish language and culture. The term La Raza is mostly used by patriotic Mexicans and Mexican Americans. The term may also refer to a racial significance associated with mestizo (mixed race). The term originated in the book La Raza Cósmica written by a Mexican writer, José Vasconcelos. He described La Raza Cosmica as the product of racial mixing over time that was already in progress in the Hispanic world. Vasconcelos believed that eventually all of the people within the Spanish Empire would completely mixed into a new race that had the best attributes of all the cultures; armies of these people would then go forth around the world professing their knowledge and initiating the "universal era of humanity". See also Hispanic nationalism

farglebargle -> RE: Giving up war? (10/18/2007 9:09:23 AM)
quote: Ok, you're right, I should've been more clear, Salma&Eva are advocating for ILLEGAL Hispanics...Hispanic AMERICAN citizens already have the same rights and privileges as everyone else, Actually, since RIGHTS come from Our Creator ( see the fucking Declaration of Independence ), EVERYONE HAS THE EXACT SAME RIGHTS REGARDLESS OF CITIZENSHIP STATUS. Privileges however, DO, vary based on differing statuses. But you really have to learn the difference, and understand exactly WHY Rights are different.

Alumbrado -> RE: Giving up war? (10/18/2007 9:25:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eyeh8f8 La Raza (Mexican Spanish IPA: [la ˈrasa]; Castilian Spanish IPA: [la ˈraθa]) is a Mexican Spanish phrase which literally translated as "The Race". It is used to denote the people of Latin America and the Hispanic world, who share the cultural and political legacies of Spanish colonialism, including the Spanish language and culture. The term La Raza is mostly used by patriotic Mexicans and Mexican Americans. The term may also refer to a racial significance associated with mestizo (mixed race). The term originated in the book La Raza Cósmica written by a Mexican writer, José Vasconcelos. He described La Raza Cosmica as the product of racial mixing over time that was already in progress in the Hispanic world. Vasconcelos believed that eventually all of the people within the Spanish Empire would completely mixed into a new race that had the best attributes of all the cultures; armies of these people would then go forth around the world professing their knowledge and initiating the "universal era of humanity". See also Hispanic nationalism And La Raza originally worked to achieve idealistic goals for their 'people' (i.e. civil rights and parity in the US), much as Vasconcelos wrote about an idealized future where race had been blended into a better world. At that time, the term was more commonly translated as 'The People' "The National Council of La Raza (NCLR) is a non-profit, and non-partisan, political advocacy group in the United States. Its stated focus is on reducing poverty and discrimination, and improving opportunities for Hispanics. According to the organization's website, it is "the largest constituency-based national Hispanic organization, serving all Hispanic nationality groups in all regions". To this end, the NCLR does research, disseminates information through reports, press releases, and its website, provides expert testimony, and lobbies for causes important to Hispanics. To fund programs, the NCLR partners with philanthropic organizations, such as the Ford Foundation, and corporations, such as Citigroup and Wal-Mart. The NCLR serves its constituency by means of affiliations with almost 300 community organizations. The NCLR is headquartered in Washington, D.C. and maintains eight regional offices." More recently has the term been co-opted by 'descendants of mighty Aztec warriors' and tied to things like the Nation of Aztlan. "On September 20, 2006, Representative Norwood issued a press release calling the NCLR a "radical [...] pro-illegal immigration lobbying organization that supports racist groups calling for the secession of the western United States as a Hispanic-only homeland" and accusing the organization of undermining "the ability of state and local police to fight criminal illegal aliens." The NCLR immediately issued a press release to refute Norwood's claims and to demand an apology. He offered to extend an apology on seven conditions... ...The NCLR responded to Norwood's conditions apology in a point-by-point press release defending its policies, which it claims have never been racially or ethnically exclusionary, never supported and does not endorse the notion of a “Reconquista” or “Aztlán,” has never used, and unequivocally rejects, the motto “Por La Raza todo, Fuera de La Raza nada", has supported numerous measures to ensure that all Americans have the freedom to choose where to live, and stated that its programs are already covered by civil rights laws administered by independent agencies at the federal, state, and local level.[12] It also disputes the charge that it supports illegal immigration, constantly reiterating its support for effective and reasonable border security and immigration-law enforcement. In a speech in San Diego, NCLR CEO Janet Murguía stated: "First, as a sovereign nation, the United States has the right to determine who comes and who stays. . . [It also] has a right to consider enforcement at a variety of levels, including border enforcement, interior enforcement, and workplace enforcement. . . We support enforcement... [because] as Americans, we recognize it's the right thing to do http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Council_of_La_Raza

EPGAH -> RE: Giving up war? (10/18/2007 9:28:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: We already have a document that started with "We the People...of the United States" I see it doesn't say "We the Lawful Residents" or "We the Citizens"... So, how do you go from the Open and Inclusive definition of "People" to the restrictive definition you apparently prefer? Again: It says, "We the People of the United States", NOT "We the People of Mexico"..."In order to form a more perfect union" The new wave of illegal alien "immigrants" don't want to union or unify, they want to keep their old ways, and somehow ALSO keep the privileges of America--WITHOUT paying for it! They also still identify as Mexican or Salvadorian...Becoming American must be truly repulsive to these delusional invaders! Sweet deal, but impractical!

Alumbrado -> RE: Giving up war? (10/18/2007 9:32:30 AM)
quote: The new wave of illegal alien "immigrants" don't want to union or unify, they want to keep their old ways, and somehow ALSO keep the privileges of America--WITHOUT paying for it! OK, so focusing on the illegals, why are politicians on both sides of the aisle working (as they have for decades) to encourage that very thing? They may be saying otherwise in their campaign speeches, but at the end of the day, they are promoting policies re: illegals, that other countries see as self-destructive.

Real0ne -> RE: Giving up war? (10/18/2007 9:35:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EPGAH Again: It says, "We the People of the United States", NOT "We the People of Mexico"... Nope that is old world the new world is: "We the corporations of The United States of America" Of the Corporations by the corporations and for the corporations. Dont kid yourselves.

EPGAH -> RE: Giving up war? (10/18/2007 9:38:46 AM)
Because the rich live in gated, guarded communities, so as the rest of America/the world becomes a Third World hell and/or a gangland warzone, they're safe in their little Dreamland mini-nations? (Which, I'll wager, they would get QUITE upset about if their "sovereignty" or any other part was violated by a poorer neighbor, again, regardless of race or nation?[;)])

Alumbrado -> RE: Giving up war? (10/18/2007 9:40:47 AM)
quote: Because the rich live in gated, guarded communities, so as the rest of America/the world becomes a Third World hell and/or a gangland warzone, they're safe in their little Dreamland mini-nations... Which should provide many job opportunities for Blackwater as private police in the future.[;)]

Real0ne -> RE: Giving up war? (10/18/2007 9:43:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: Because the rich live in gated, guarded communities, so as the rest of America/the world becomes a Third World hell and/or a gangland warzone, they're safe in their little Dreamland mini-nations... Which should provide many job opportunities for Blackwater as private police in the future.[;)] And a reason for china to move in because america is harboring terroists

EPGAH -> RE: Giving up war? (10/18/2007 9:51:10 AM)
True, but remember, under current "foreign rights" agitprop, the "needs" of the poor overwhelm the law, so it is their "right" to invade a richer neighbor and leech off said neighbor for an indefinite period...Don't the Congresspeople get how that could apply to them, once the Americans get impoverished enough? Also, La Raza has funded several "actions" AGAINST proper border-enforcement, their idea of "reasonable" seems to be letting the Gates to (Third World) Hell swing wide open, unleashing a brown tide of crime, blood, and nightmares upon the unaware Americans! http://www.nysun.com/article/46324 http://www.vdare.com/guzzardi/041210_arizona.htm http://www.aclunc.org/news/press_releases/superior_court_judge_dismisses_bay_area_employers'_lawsuit_against_day_laborers_and_non-profit_group_saying_it_chills_free_spee.shtml http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?whichpage=0.52&TOPIC_ID=266276&#2035638 http://www.nclr.org/content/news/detail/32426/ The first and fourth are actions DIRECTLY against the law-enforcement arms, while the others are simply areas where they crushed the Will of the Americans in favor of foreign fiat! The last is Kansas's acquiescence to La Raza's wish that illegals get to pay IN-STATE tuition in Kansas State Universities--they're not even FROM the States, let alone IN-State! Where's the difference in tuition going to come from? My prediction is that it will come from the pockets of the legitimate students!

camille65 -> RE: Giving up war? (10/18/2007 9:51:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EPGAH So naturally, if you see someone who looks X, if you have had bad dealings with X in the past (For instance, at my college, 10 Mexicans--who were luckily NOT students--shot 5 students...That qualifies, don't you think?), you'll distrust them. They'll have to work TWICE as hard to prove they're on YOUR side--or they have the same opportunities to prove the stereotypes are correct! Um yeah. Maybe it is 'natural' inside your head but it sure is not natural in my mind. I'm not going to bother responding to the rest of your..thoughts.. because it is obvious to me that you haven't any interest in views that don't coincide with your own. I don't mean this harshly but you seem to have a really skewed perspective on a lot of things, and you seem to refuse to genuinely discuss things. Only stay entrenched in your views, discourse and discussion can lead to wonderful new ideas.

Owner59 -> RE: Giving up war? (10/18/2007 10:02:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado You brought up the claim that La Raza was a racial thing, I've debunked it. And please do explain how it is biting the hand that feeds them to advocate civil rights for Hispanic citizens of the US? (Hint: If you dont want racism to be raised, don't bring it up first, and don't complain about legal Hispanics who want the same rights as anyone else. Dismissing the real problem behind the government's apparently illogical policy on illegal immigration doesn't help your case either.) So far all you have contributed is regurgitation of someone else's polemic rhetoric. Thinking for yourself is harder than being a parrot, but if you work at it, it will become a habit. You brought up the claim that La Raza was a racial thing, I've debunked it. This comes from the wacko right radio.There`s only one guy saying that La Raza is a racist group.Michael Savage(who`s last name used to be Weiner),is a very entertaining and train wrecky kind of guy(like Ann Coulter),who broadcasts out of San Fransisco.You almost can`t believe a guy would say the things he does,and get away with it. His radio station has been under pressure to have him fired,and La Raza is one of the groups involved,so Savage is calling them a racist group(which they are not). He calls everyone he dislikes,a racist,communist,Leninist,Trotskyist (lol,I know,weird)),nazi,fascist,America hater,Jesus hater,Allah lover(yup,weird),Stalinist,Hitler,etc. Basically,he uses the names from the most insulting and vile side of the list,and calls everyone these names.He does it in almost every sentence, like a velvet smooth hip-hop artist.It`s amazing. And it leaves an impression,on impressionable people. I`m thinking that EPGAH ,listens to Savage and heard the La Raza thing,and believes it. He`s making a lot of points in his posts,that are almost word for word, from Michael Savage`s radio show.

EPGAH -> RE: Giving up war? (10/18/2007 10:13:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: camille65 quote: ORIGINAL: EPGAH (For instance, at my college, 10 Mexicans--who were luckily NOT students--shot 5 students...That qualifies, don't you think?), you'll distrust them. They'll have to work TWICE as hard to prove they're on YOUR side--or they have the same opportunities to prove the stereotypes are correct! Um yeah. Maybe it is 'natural' inside your head but it sure is not natural in my mind. I'm not going to bother responding to the rest of your..thoughts.. because it is obvious to me that you haven't any interest in views that don't coincide with your own. I don't mean this harshly but you seem to have a really skewed perspective on a lot of things, and you seem to refuse to genuinely discuss things. Only stay entrenched in your views, discourse and discussion can lead to wonderful new ideas. Well, I don't know if this makes sense to you, but one's past dealings with any group, ethnic or gender, colors one's future dealings with that group. I have read on this Site about a woman who got raped and doesn't trust men anymore, so switched to women. That is her decision, I'm not arguing that. However, by your definition, it's not natural that she let her negative experience in the past close her off to new ones? So yes, by experiencing the worst effects of Mexico's invasion of the US, my views have become increasingly skewed. Our crime-rate has tripled, our local ER has closed, I cannot even watch TV in peace because some of the commercials are in SPANISH now! The SHOW is in English, but the commercial can't be? It's truly a novel business-plan to alienate American consumers to woo the invaders! Our schools are in trouble, because Hispanic students can't learn English fast enough, and the other kids "discriminate against them"--there is nothing so simply cruel as a child, right? I myself volunteered at an ESOTL Class, but was told by one of them in broken English I should just give them all an A and leave, they weren't interested in learning English, they'd never need/use it, the Mexicans were taking over America, and once they were in charge, the teachers would be the first to "go" (I assume that was a veiled threat? I reported it, and nothing was done, but he failed the class anyways because he didn't put NEARLY as much effort into his schoolwork as he did into threatening me) The remaining kids had mixed results, but some came up to me and asked for private lessons, because they didn't want to be seen as showoffs, or worse, acting "white" in front of their peers! Peer pressure works AGAINST assimilation! If only I'd thought of that! I have since ceased volunteering there, since subsequent classes were less "To Sir With Love" and more "Dumb and Dumberer--en Espanol" That, and of course, teaching each one separately is exponentially more draining and time-consuming than teaching them as a group. Until you have some of your friends shot by Mexican scum, AND the local ER has closed because illegals don't pay their own way, AND you've attempted to teach them the right language, but found out just HOW disinterested they really are, you have little to no room to criticize my "skewed" views. I daresay those experiences would "skew" your views too!

EPGAH -> RE: Giving up war? (10/18/2007 10:19:51 AM)
You brought up the claim that La Raza was a racial thing, I've debunked it. This comes from the wacko right radio.There`s only one guy saying that La Raza is a racist group.Michael Savage(who`s last name used to be Weiner),is a very entertaining and train wrecky kind of guy(like Ann Coulter),who broadcasts out of San Fransisco.You almost can`t believe a guy would say the things he does,and get away with it. His radio station has been under pressure to have him fired,and La Raza is one of the groups involved,so Savage is calling them a racist group(which they are not). He calls everyone he dislikes,a racist,communist,Leninist,Trotskyist (lol,I know,weird)),nazi,fascist,America hater,Jesus hater,Allah lover(yup,weird),Stalinist,Hitler,etc. Basically,he uses the names from the most insulting and vile side of the list,and calls everyone these names.He does it in almost every sentence, like a velvet smooth hip-hop artist.It`s amazing. And it leaves an impression,on impressionable people. I`m thinking that EPGAH ,listens to Savage and heard the La Raza thing,and believes it. He`s making a lot of points in his posts,that are almost word for word, from Michael Savage`s radio show. [/quote] I have never heard nor even heard OF, this Savage guy. I have, however, provided links to actions La Raza did that show even if they are NOT a racist group, they seem to protect illegals an awful lot...Hmmm...Of course, if AMERICANS band together in defense of each other, it's racist... And meatcleaver recently called me a Nazi, thompsonx called me a bigot...camille65 said my perspective is skewed...I have no use to attack my fellow posters, just their positions... Maybe they ran out of useful arguments?[;)]

Owner59 -> RE: Giving up war? (10/18/2007 10:41:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EPGAH You brought up the claim that La Raza was a racial thing, I've debunked it. This comes from the wacko right radio.There`s only one guy saying that La Raza is a racist group.Michael Savage(who`s last name used to be Weiner),is a very entertaining and train wrecky kind of guy(like Ann Coulter),who broadcasts out of San Fransisco.You almost can`t believe a guy would say the things he does,and get away with it. His radio station has been under pressure to have him fired,and La Raza is one of the groups involved,so Savage is calling them a racist group(which they are not). He calls everyone he dislikes,a racist,communist,Leninist,Trotskyist (lol,I know,weird)),nazi,fascist,America hater,Jesus hater,Allah lover(yup,weird),Stalinist,Hitler,etc. Basically,he uses the names from the most insulting and vile side of the list,and calls everyone these names.He does it in almost every sentence, like a velvet smooth hip-hop artist.It`s amazing. And it leaves an impression,on impressionable people. I`m thinking that EPGAH ,listens to Savage and heard the La Raza thing,and believes it. He`s making a lot of points in his posts,that are almost word for word, from Michael Savage`s radio show. I have never heard nor even heard OF, this Savage guy. I have, however, provided links to actions La Raza did that show even if they are NOT a racist group, they seem to protect illegals an awful lot...Hmmm...Of course, if AMERICANS band together in defense of each other, it's racist... And meatcleaver recently called me a Nazi, thompsonx called me a bigot...camille65 said my perspective is skewed...I have no use to attack my fellow posters, just their positions... Maybe they ran out of useful arguments?[;)] Sorry,.. The "La Raza" ARE a racist group, by definition" thing,as well as the extreme nature of your comments,had me thrown. Perhaps I did you a favor. http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/

pahunkboy -> RE: Giving up war? (10/18/2007 10:47:32 AM)
Anywhere there is an American, there is America. Other then Canada- I would not feel safe to travel abroad. Even years ago- groups are told to claim they are from somewhere else. Many major US cities are dangerous as well. The states will never split- and I will tell you why. "social security".

EPGAH -> RE: Giving up war? (10/18/2007 11:31:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Sorry,.. The "La Raza" ARE a racist group, by definition" thing,as well as the extreme nature of your comments,had me thrown. Perhaps I did you a favor. http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/ Ok, how about this: La Raza are about as "non-racist" as the NAACP...and slightly LESS devoted to *upholding* the law, rather than *holding up* the law! Because of frivolous lawsuits from "rights" groups, our law-enforcers are more and more scared to do their job! As to that Savage site, it looks like he's gathered together stories and reports of the obvious and put a banner-graphic of the American flag at the top. Nothing here more or less racist than at MSN News, Yahoo! News, and less slanted than the NYTimes or Washington Post (Although the NYT and WP newspapers are considered "fair" because they softpedal it in favor of the illegals? Reporting IMMIGRANTS being arrested and deported, without mentioning that they're ILLEGAL ALIENS, perhaps?)

eyeh8f8 -> RE: Giving up war? (10/18/2007 11:36:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: EPGAH Again: It says, "We the People of the United States", NOT "We the People of Mexico"... Nope that is old world the new world is: "We the corporations of The United States of America" Of the Corporations by the corporations and for the corporations. Dont kid yourselves. Yup because it's only the US that has corrupt business. I know you didn't exactly imply that but that seems to be something I could see you implying. Also, yes corporations have power, and they use it. the more power they have the more it can corrupt them but in the end business needs comstumers and what do you do to get them? You come up with campaigns to show them that you need their product. Sure some of that may harm people in the way but people do that when making decisions everyday when they have the power. I don't mind companies making money, that is the goal for the most part. The only time I have a problem is when they provide bad service. Then I will use my right to complain. If I don't like the way things are going, i will go somewhere else. I really get tired of the the "fuck te corporations" thought because it's not the corporations, it's the people. Just like it's not the guns that kill, it's the people.

philosophy -> RE: Giving up war? (10/18/2007 1:43:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EPGAH Well, I don't know if this makes sense to you, but one's past dealings with any group, ethnic or gender, colors one's future dealings with that group. ...so i take it you sympathise with those people around the world who have been messed with by US citizens? Nicaraguans who had their ports illegally mined for instance....or the few thousand innocent Iraqi citizens who had the crap bombed out of them during shock and awe. i take it you accept that they have a perfect right to consider all Americans as imperialist bastards who think military might gives them the right to do anything to protect and extend their corporate and ideological interests? Or is it only right for US citizens to hold and act on such views?

Real0ne -> RE: Giving up war? (10/18/2007 1:45:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 This comes from the wacko right radio. He calls everyone he dislikes,a racist,communist,Leninist,Trotskyist (lol,I know,weird)),nazi,fascist,America hater,Jesus hater,Allah lover(yup,weird),Stalinist,Hitler,etc. You wouldnt know of anyone on the boards who does that would you?

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