RE: Giving up war?

RE: Giving up war? (Full Version)

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FangsNfeet -> RE: Giving up war? (10/19/2007 8:08:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin But,what would happen if the US stopped helping it's allies and concerned itself purely with defence of it's own shores.You,like us are a warring nation, it seems we have to have a scrap now and again to be happy, but what would happen do you think if the US suddenly ignored the rest of the world. I am interested in what would happen to US society,ignore the turmoil in other countries, if you like,their problem,let them sort it out.What would the US do?Think into the future,the possibilities given your current leadership and social structure. History would then repeat itself. Remember the Roman Empire? Down sizing your political and military pull is the first step towards no longer being the super power. Review the past super powers and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about these basic steps that have repeated itself time and time again: 1. Super Power pulls back from other countries. 2. Super Power focuses more on its land and people. 3. Groups and alliances within the Inner Super Power emerge. 4. Not everyone can get along. 5. Inner turmoil turns the Super Power into a weaker state 6. If not civil war, then atleast there is breakage within the Super Power. 7. The Super Power is no more. New roles of political policy and procedure have emerged. People still live, work, and what have you. 8. Other countries will soon begin to offer aide, deals, trade, and possibly altimatums. 9. A new Super Power has been born. Will it be Canada, Mexico, Austrailia, the UK, or something much more unexpected?

EPGAH -> RE: Giving up war? (10/19/2007 10:10:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen hang about Epgah - "disqualified for military service"? I'm sure I recall you saying you'd served, and discussed it briefly with Thompsonx? And I cant imagine the descendants of the natives - several of whom are present on the boards here, appreciating the description of their ancestors as "savages", nor the accusation that their civilisation wasnt viable. Lets face it, in just about 400 years, we've pretty much trashed the place where they managed to live for far longer. Might have to look up on crop rotation too; pretty sure it was well known pre-industrial revolution at least, a time when half the country was still occupied by "savages" making a decent living out of it. E No, actually, I told thompsonx that my Vestibular Deficit disqualified me; he made a joke about it. Yes, we have "trashed" it, but we have several hundred times as many people living in the same place, AND MORE COMING IN ALL THE TIME!(Oh, wait, that's another couple threads) If you feel so bad about the Indians and their descendants, make a "donation" at the nearest casino. Our reservations are a place where the Indians can live any way they choose...Oddly, they've chosen to mimic their conquerors, rather than return to their romanticized primitive ways...Was the lure of air-conditioning that much? But of course, these jibes are minor, since some have chosen to leave the reservation and artificial divisions behind utterly and intermarry into mainstream society! And remember, if we hadn't conquered them, someone else would have...Maybe Spain's forces? China? It's fun to play what-if, but ultimately futile. Also, why does everyone bring up the "evil" we did to the American Indians to justify the evil invaders are doing to America now? Has the algebra changed since I was little? Two wrongs now DO make a right? Is this someone's twisted idea of karma? Or is it necessary to lower our standard of living to accommodate as many third-worlders as can cram into America? If the latter, why can't they also force their way into China? Or Americans force their way into the lands vacated by our trespassers?

EPGAH -> RE: Giving up war? (10/19/2007 10:16:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet History would then repeat itself. Remember the Roman Empire? Down sizing your political and military pull is the first step towards no longer being the super power. Review the past super powers and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about these basic steps that have repeated itself time and time again: 1. Super Power pulls back from other countries. 2. Super Power focuses more on its land and people. 3. Groups and alliances within the Inner Super Power emerge. 4. Not everyone can get along. 5. Inner turmoil turns the Super Power into a weaker state 6. If not civil war, then atleast there is breakage within the Super Power. 7. The Super Power is no more. New roles of political policy and procedure have emerged. People still live, work, and what have you. 8. Other countries will soon begin to offer aide, deals, trade, and possibly altimatums. 9. A new Super Power has been born. Will it be Canada, Mexico, Austrailia, the UK, or something much more unexpected? Well, right now, any nation we don't offer to "help til it hurts" will go to China...China is a little less ethical in their dealings, and therefore MUCH more able to get benefits from anyone they help! If America truly quits interfering, our "place in the world" will go to China...Who knows, maybe it already has? But China isn't weighed down with a bunch of invaders demanding "rights" in their country...Perhaps because they proved they're willing to machinegun their OWN people down for protests, so invaders can predict/calculate a much WORSE fate for them if they cause trouble? P.S. They also deal with people we don't--especially people we've embargoed to "punish" them without being "cultural aggressors"...so passive-aggressiveness really DOESN'T work, especially if someone else breaks the "picket line"![;)]

meatcleaver -> RE: Giving up war? (10/20/2007 2:42:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EPGAH Well, right now, any nation we don't offer to "help til it hurts" will go to China...China is a little less ethical in their dealings, and therefore MUCH more able to get benefits from anyone they help! If America truly quits interfering, our "place in the world" will go to China...Who knows, maybe it already has? But China isn't weighed down with a bunch of invaders demanding "rights" in their country...Perhaps because they proved they're willing to machinegun their OWN people down for protests, so invaders can predict/calculate a much WORSE fate for them if they cause trouble? P.S. They also deal with people we don't--especially people we've embargoed to "punish" them without being "cultural aggressors"...so passive-aggressiveness really DOESN'T work, especially if someone else breaks the "picket line"![;)] EPGAH For fucks sake, take off those rose coloured glasses for once and take a good look in the mirror!

LadyEllen -> RE: Giving up war? (10/20/2007 4:47:14 AM)
Look Epgah, no one is saying how awful Americans are - or indeed how awful we are in Europe, who supplied the people to do awful things to natives everywhere, enslave others and so on, by comparison to anyone else on the planet. Sadly, human nature seems to be that where we can, we take full advantage of the weakness of others - and that applies across whatever divisions one wishes to use to divide one group of humans from the rest, whether that be ethnicity, religion, gender, sexuality, age, ability/disability or pretty much anything which will distinguish one group from another. Indeed, going back to the OP, this is the point I made in my first response here - that unless we are prepared for war, we are at the mercy of others who undoubtedly will have so prepared. A recent example is provided by 30's Europe. Following the first world war, the rest of us were busy demilitarising and then Hitler came to power and built very formidable forces. I'll wager now that your history has our Prime Minister, Neville Chamberlain, down as an appeaser of Hitler - agreeing to Hitler's demands? In fact, he was no such thing - he knew well that neither we nor France were anything like prepared for a confrontation, and wisely bought time to allow for preparation. But such is the nature of the siuation. We could perhaps all live in peace with each other, but there's always someone prepared to take advantage. E

farglebargle -> RE: Giving up war? (10/20/2007 9:27:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen But such is the nature of the siuation. We could perhaps all live in peace with each other, but there's always someone prepared to take advantage. E Like Prescott Bush, George Bush's Grandfather. NAZI SUPPORTER AND FINANCIER. WORSE than Benedict Arnold, IMO.

NorthernGent -> RE: Giving up war? (10/20/2007 9:29:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen nor France were anything like prepared for a confrontation To be fair to the French, they did build an impregnable wall; 'shame they didn't account for the Germans swerving it and coming in through the back door.

philosophy -> RE: Giving up war? (10/20/2007 9:32:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EPGAH If you feel so bad about the Indians and their descendants, make a "donation" at the nearest casino. ....pity you don't have the courage to admit that you have made a mistake. You said that the US 'treated fairly' with the indigenous people. You were wrong and have been called on it. Such intellectual cowardice tends to make the rest of your arguments less valid because it shows you to be a dishonest debater.

popeye1250 -> RE: Giving up war? (10/20/2007 12:20:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: EPGAH quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Phil, to be really fair the "U.N." had SEVENTEEN resolutions. One after another and nothing happened. Mitt Romney who's running for President was here yesterday and he thinks the U.S. should get out of the "U.N." I think he's right and judging by the crowds he's been attracting so do a lot of other people. You mean have America make our own decisions, since "Peacekeeping" Missions almost always seem to end up involving American troops? Great idea, but it might or might not happen that way! [;)] Governments don't always do what the "people on the ground" want! Like what peace keeping missions? OK guys, U.S. Troops ARE NOT "peacekeepers!" They are WARRIORS. I don't know where that shit came from but it's an insult and it's not at all correct. If I had an electrical problem in my house should I call a Roofer or a Plumber? Or an Accountant?

thornhappy -> RE: Giving up war? (10/21/2007 5:34:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EPGAH Oh, and I was disqualified for military service, so I am innocent...And most people act like this all happened over 200 years ago! Did you make it in at all? I believe it was you who commented that their military ID had a detailed physical description on it, so no illegal could use it. thornhappy

EPGAH -> RE: Giving up war? (10/21/2007 7:20:01 PM)
Dad's military, so I got military ID, but none of the other perks!

thompsonx -> RE: Giving up war? (10/21/2007 11:40:34 PM)
philosophy: I raise ratites...they are a curious creature. In all my experience with them I have never seen one with his head up his ass or his feet in his mouth. thompson

thompsonx -> RE: Giving up war? (10/21/2007 11:46:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EPGAH Dad's military, so I got military ID, but none of the other perks! EPGAH: From your vast and half vast experience with military ID I am sure that you are aware that there is nothing on the ID card that states your nationality. I am sure you are also aware of the fact that you do not have to be an American citizen to be in the U.S. military. thompson

subby4miss -> RE: Giving up war? (10/22/2007 2:56:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave LadyE: At the moment Turkey is poised to invade Northern Iraq. That would be your first "problem" As a diversion you could spend some time "observing" those Turkish wrestlers that oil up their bodies, all glistening and muscley. They might be Greek but I expect some live in Turkey lol. Does that tempt you. You could take Pahunk with you as a token of goodwill. To Pahunk I mean not the Turks. You know? Some people see problems - I see opportunities ('cause I swallowed a management techniques book once). Let the Turks go into Kurdistan..... and we'll go into Turkey at the other end. Even with their huge army, I doubt they'll like a war on two fronts. Hey, we'll even get the Russians in on it - they hate the Turks apparently. NATO is irrelevant - it only says we come to the aid of members who are attacked - doesnt say we should do or not do anything if they attack someone else, and as Supreme Glorious Empress, my reading of the Treaty is of course, the correct one. The goals of our invasion are to nab all those sunny beaches for ourselves, put Syria under a lot of pressure and be able to pass a resolution that says there was genocide in Armenia. If you like, since I know you, you can seize all the wrestlers you want at the same time. E with blackbelt putin,rattling his sabre,and joing iran in a treaty of mutal defense,bit weird that one after his genocide of the muslims in checyna,im getting a bit confused with real-politik at the moment ,all smoke and mirrors,think the whole worlds about to go down the pan time for Supreme Glorious Empress to don her cloak and sort the world to its natural state,which is dis-harmony,cant remember it being in any other state though

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