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RE: Lifestyle vs Vanilla - 10/17/2007 9:02:49 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
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In my mind the very nature of a d/s relationship is the intensity. I've never had a vanilla guy come close to touching my emotions as intensely. My comments are not to suggest any sort of qualification is necessary, only that the two may be different.

(in reply to spanklette)

Post #: 21

RE: Lifestyle vs Vanilla - 10/17/2007 9:10:17 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
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I find that pretty much any relationship I have had, nilla or bdsm, begins with intensity. That is why I stick with it. Beginnings rock. It is the monotony of day to day that eventually happens that is the obstacle. And that is where people fail. They cant handle the quiet times.
But those beginnnings? HOT, even with nillas. Lots of sex, passion, FUN!
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 22

RE: Lifestyle vs Vanilla - 10/17/2007 9:10:39 PM

spanklette

Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
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I understand what you're saying, but I think it's unfair to say that vanilla relationships are less intense. They may be less intense for you, but that isn't global. Your earlier comment made it seem like you're trying to quantify. Maybe I misunderstood...but "While we deal with each other's emotions on a much higher level and things such as someone leaving the toliet seat down are much simpler for us to deal with, because we deal with more intense emotions we have our own relationship obstacles." seems like a quantifier. If D/s is on a higher level, does that mean that vanilla relationships are on a lower one?

And...I hate it when Daddy leaves the toilet seat up...drives me bezerk!

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 23

RE: Lifestyle vs Vanilla - 10/17/2007 9:23:08 PM

NLitendLady

Posts: 117
Joined: 7/7/2005
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When I came into the lifestyle eons ago, what impressed me the most was the acceptance of others. They preached that every relationship was individual and to be decided only by those within it and not to be judged in any way by those outside said relationship.

Better or worse is relative to individual need and desires. What is good for me and my relationship is all that concerns me. If you or anyone else are happy in yours I am happy for you. People judge by stereotypes as a rule instead of on an individual basis.

Vanilla people are just as happy and satisfied as those in Ds. Some relationships work. Some do not. When you add bdsm into the mix and you are turning over control then trust and open communication are forced into the forefront. That is not true outside of that realm.

When I came into the lifestyle I met couples who had been together for 25 and 30 years at that time and are still together today almost 20 years later. They are not online as they have seen what has happened to the lifestyle they love through overexposure without education. The words respect, honor, trust, mutuality as well as safe, sane and consensual were lived then. A little harder to find now I'm sad to say.

Bottom line is be careful when you judge because somewhere someone is judging you.

(in reply to spanklette)

Post #: 24

RE: Lifestyle vs Vanilla - 10/17/2007 9:29:17 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: spanklette

I understand what you're saying, but I think it's unfair to say that vanilla relationships are less intense. They may be less intense for you, but that isn't global. Your earlier comment made it seem like you're trying to quantify. Maybe I misunderstood...but "While we deal with each other's emotions on a much higher level and things such as someone leaving the toliet seat down are much simpler for us to deal with, because we deal with more intense emotions we have our own relationship obstacles." seems like a quantifier. If D/s is on a higher level, does that mean that vanilla relationships are on a lower one?

And...I hate it when Daddy leaves the toilet seat up...drives me bezerk!

ok yeah my intent was to say neither is better or worse, but I hear ya.
l

(in reply to spanklette)

Post #: 25

RE: Lifestyle vs Vanilla - 10/17/2007 9:40:24 PM

spanklette

Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

ok yeah my intent was to say neither is better or worse, but I hear ya.
l

Sweet!

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 26

RE: Lifestyle vs Vanilla - 10/18/2007 3:09:23 AM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline

I agree with you though I wouldn't call it "vanilla" vs. "lifestayle" because that makes it sound as if the point of differientiation has something to do with kink.

But, overall, I agree with your perception of relationships that aren't organized around power exchange vs. those that are. What you're calling vanilla doesn't work for me. But, they work for other people and this is important. While I do have moments where I perceive those kinds of relationships negatively, I won't let myself turn that perception into a judgement. What works for me doesn't work for others and I'm sure many would be just as confused in a relationship based on power exchange as I am in a vanilla relationship.

Two wrongs doesn't make a right. That many vanilla view the lifestyle negatively doesn't justify the sort of reversal you're implying.

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin

(in reply to WiseCracknSadist)

Post #: 27

RE: Lifestyle vs Vanilla - 10/18/2007 7:17:10 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex
...? hell, how many people can say they have been in a committed BDSM relationship more than 20 years long? Very few, either in the online or real time world, from My experience.

I would agree that very few endure 20 plus years.... Of all the people I know in this lifestyle. Only myself, My bottom and another Gay couple have been together in excess of twenty years. I believe their might be one other couple.... but I am not exactly sure... but I know they are very close if they have not reached 20 years.

Having said that... It's a very irrelevent comparison. Simply because of the nature of this lifestyle... very very few have enter into this lifestyle as a young adult. The internet is changing that and in another 10 or so years... I expect that the relationship make up is going to be very close to what a person sees outside of the lifestyle.

Secondly, I know alot more people outside of the lifestyle than I do in the lifestyle... particularly when you take in family and extended family. There is probably about 2 dozen couples I know out of the lifestyle that have been together longer than 20 years.... but as a percentage of those I know... it's really not that significantly different than the lifestyle.

In the end.. your comparison is rather pointless and of no creditable value in my opinion

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to AnimusRex)

Post #: 28

RE: Lifestyle vs Vanilla - 10/18/2007 7:39:48 AM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
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quote:

When I came into the lifestyle eons ago, what impressed me the most was the acceptance of others. They preached that every relationship was individual and to be decided only by those within it and not to be judged in any way by those outside said relationship.

i think if you find that in the lifestyle and find that only in the lifestyle...1) you're really lucky and 2) you've got some crap nonlifestyle friends....because i have met a lot of very nonaccepting and instantly judgemental people in the lifestyle and on the flip side....the people at my church which i am close to and thats pretty much the whole congregation (we're a small church), which i am pretty sure are all nonlifestyle (though i am not 100% sure) are very accepting and would not judge me for my lifestyle as long as i am being safe and coming back to church...lol...but i think thats a little selfish...something about wanting me to sing more solo's...ok so they love me as much as i love them...lol...anywho...

if you're not being accepted and being judged constantly by the people you hang out with....either its you and what you're doing or its the people you choose to hang out with....either way...its got to do with you and the choices you make, so change something....sorry...i don't do the blame it all on them route...

chelle...

< Message edited by chellekitty -- 10/18/2007 7:40:36 AM >

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One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to NLitendLady)

Post #: 29

RE: Lifestyle vs Vanilla - 10/18/2007 9:31:49 AM

bipolarber

Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline

There's good and bad on both sides of the fence. Sure, for many of us, BDSM has helped us establish relationships more easily. Our roles are somewhat pre-defined for us. (Just deciding who's in control of things simplifies things greatly.) Yet, I am certain that there are plenty of vanilla couples out there who had no problem falling in love, getting married, and having kids. According to statistics, in America, only about 50% of them will end in divorice. In BDSM relationships, I fear the breakup rate is much, much higher. As another poster pointed out, where are the BDSMers who have been together since the late 60's? (When BDSM as we understand it today came into being.) If we dug around long enough, I'm sure we'd find a few. But I think the reason you can't point to that many long term kinky relationships is that the bulk of the "mainstream" society puts pressure on us to conform, and that eventually keeps us from being able to do so. How many vanilla marriages would survive, if they had to keep their relationship secret from the rest of the town? Suppose inviting the neighbors over for dinner allowed them to see your marriage photo on the wall, and that was an indication to them that you should be shunned, and gossiped about?

It seems to you to be a better way of living. (It seems that way to me also.) But you have to understand that everyone has different wants, needs, and desires. There is no "one size fits all" solution to humans relating to one another. The best you can do is come up with a way of relating that seems to fit you, and your partner(s) and develop the thick skin to tell the rest of the world to kindly "fuck off" if it's critical about your self-chosen path.

Only by being out, proud, and unashamed about who and what you are, will you find your way to being happy in your own skin.

(in reply to spanklette)

Post #: 30

RE: Lifestyle vs Vanilla - 10/18/2007 9:40:16 AM

AZSweetie

Posts: 147
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline

I have several "Vanilla" friends (but they're so not vanilla and dont know it) that think the lifestyle is almost 100% sexual all the time. ALL ABOUT SEX! Oh My how I have to explain and explain that its not till I'm blue in the face. However, once I do they actually get it.

I really dont think it's ignorance on why they're perception of the lifestyle is sexual. I think it's because terms "S&M" is so commonly used that they think there is nothing more too it. Also I think it may have alot to do with the fact that they may not know anyone in the lifestyle who could explain it to them so they just then assume it's all kinky fun and games. I absolutely love when I get to educate someone on the lifestyle. How nice it is when I hear something other than it's about ponytail butt plugs and then hear something like "Oh, so it's a power exchange"? That totally rocks my socks in the bestest way!!!!

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~ Good communication is as stimulating as black coffee, and just as hard to sleep after.

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Post #: 31

RE: Lifestyle vs Vanilla - 10/18/2007 3:59:36 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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Once I stop laughing hysterically at the idea that kinky people in general deal with relationship issues more maturely than non kinky people in general I might give a more detailed response.

How can anyone who has spent more than ten minutes on a forum like this actually think that's true?

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(in reply to AZSweetie)

Post #: 32

RE: Lifestyle vs Vanilla - 10/18/2007 4:06:32 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

If the "lifestyle" is so superior, where are the happy Master/slave couples celebrating their 50 year anniversaries? 40? 30? hell, how many people can say they have been in a committed BDSM relationship more than 20 years long? Very few, either in the online or real time world, from My experience.
Where are the generations of Masters and slaves handing down the proud traditions of cock rings and butt plugs like family heirlooms?

I know a lot of people who have long term M/S relationships that span over the course of years.

The common denominator I see in all of them is they keep it simple and live in the pragmatic reality that its still just a relationship.

The posts I read here tend to make me think that quite a lot of people try and make things more complicated than they need to be...

_____________________________

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The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

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(in reply to AnimusRex)

Post #: 33

RE: Lifestyle vs Vanilla - 10/18/2007 4:55:26 PM

TotalState

Posts: 278
Joined: 9/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I kinda think that there is postives and negatives in any given lifestyle...and it works for some and not for others. I have my lifestyle.. it works for me and yes.. I do have judgements of others lifestyle.... but it doesn't make my opinion right...or wrong for that matter.

I have to second that. We aren't any better than vanilla people. Not worse, but not any better either.

As for long-lasting BDSM relationships mentioned...who knows? I really know of only one couple who are above 50 and in the lifestyle, and they have been together over 20 years. I doubt there's any connection between kink and staying together. All it guarantees is that the sex is better (in my humble opinion, of course) for the duration.

_____________________________

Spanking with a smile, living with feeling.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 34

RE: Lifestyle vs Vanilla - 10/18/2007 7:26:07 PM

kitttty

Posts: 494
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

most of the Vanilla World views Lifestyle people as sexual deviants or cruel cruel narcicist because of how subs are treated by Doms

What?

Be honest. Most of the vanilla world has no fucking clue what goes on in a D/s relationship. Much of the vanilla world doesn't even know this exists. After that, many people see kink as some occaisional fetish- like the bussinessman that hires a domme to whip him during lunch breaks.

Really, how many true vanillas are aware that free people enter a lifestyle and commit themselves to a Master/slave relationship where the roles are never reversed and never forgotten?

It does make me wonder though- we know kink because we were born to feel it. But perhaps there are multiple psychological worlds that we know almost nothing about?

Just as the vanilla person often has the most superfluous possible concept of BDSM, surely we each are ignorant of all sorts of profound human concepts. Sort of disturbing.

(in reply to TotalState)

Post #: 35

RE: Lifestyle vs Vanilla - 10/18/2007 7:42:09 PM

FatDomDaddy

Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Once I stop laughing hysterically at the idea that kinky people in general deal with relationship issues more maturely than non kinky people in general I might give a more detailed response.

How can anyone who has spent more than ten minutes on a forum like this actually think that's true?

I love LA

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 36

RE: Lifestyle vs Vanilla - 10/18/2007 8:18:53 PM

Domisub111

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline

many vanillas might experiment with flavors but, when it comes to lifestyle, the ground shakes. The 'lifestyle' also has poor PR. Showcasing flavors are fairly normal. Yet, society is such that once you're away from what is supposed to be average, you need to deal with perceptions of deviancy. It's too bad. I think vanilla is becoming a minority - but only behind closed doors. More are flavor selective.

(in reply to WiseCracknSadist)

Post #: 37

RE: Lifestyle vs Vanilla - 10/18/2007 8:22:27 PM

Domisub111

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/6/2007
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how true
most hate what they don't know

(in reply to kitttty)

Post #: 38

RE: Lifestyle vs Vanilla - 10/20/2007 6:59:02 AM

asubmissiveheart

Posts: 462
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

I'm with Missokyst on this one...

If the "lifestyle" is so superior, where are the happy Master/slave couples celebrating their 50 year anniversaries? 40? 30? hell, how many people can say they have been in a committed BDSM relationship more than 20 years long? Very few, either in the online or real time world, from My experience.
Where are the generations of Masters and slaves handing down the proud traditions of cock rings and butt plugs like family heirlooms?

I am not knocking the practice of BDSM or kink, I happen to enjoy it very much, and have for the past 9 years; I just don't think there is anything superior about it.

I doubt that a shared love of pussy whipping or anal fisting is enough to build a committed lifetime partnership, or sustain a couple through the turmoil of births, deaths, jobs, and aging.

I do feel that a symbiotic relationship of one partner being dominant and one partner being submissive is, if not "superior", at least the norm throughout the world, and has been forever. Ironically, the leading practitioners of this D/s form of lifestyle are the traditional Patriarchal vanilla couples where the husband assumes the leadership role, and the wife the submissive role.

Enjoy the kink, take pleasure in what you will, but let the pleasure be a part of a life, not the whole of it.

This lifestyle is not superior to any other lifestyle.
Many people in this lifesyle think that their relationships are superior, but
they are not.
There is a lot more to a long-term successful relationship than what you can
do on the kink meter.
The line between kink and vanilla is getting shorter every day.
All relationships are only as good as the parties involved in them.

(in reply to AnimusRex)

Post #: 39

RE: Lifestyle vs Vanilla - 10/20/2007 7:27:22 AM

amayos

Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WiseCracknSadist

I think a great deal of how we are percieved is based on misconception and ignorance.

Agreed. Conversely, I feel a great deal of how the so-called "vanilla" world is perceived by the BDSM subculture is based upon misconception, ignorance, assumption and elitist lifestyle snobbery. These are problems with human thinking that exist in all walks of life.

(in reply to WiseCracknSadist)

Post #: 40

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