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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 8:32:23 AM

mnottertail

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Sh'ma Israel, Adoni elhaynu, Adoni echod.

That is the perfect meaning and answer to your question.

Vaya con Dios.

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 8:50:46 AM

batshalom

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*LOL*

Ken ken, tov! Adonai echad!

Od, od, od Ron! Ata od omer hayaldah tipsha!

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 8:59:39 AM

mnottertail

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LOL!!!!

As you can plainly see, I am only a little bit dangerous.

I can bluff and bluster with the best of em.

Ron

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 9:06:50 AM

batshalom

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Yeah, me too. I'm still learning the language and hope *crossing fingers* that the sentence structure is correct or it's a garrot, rubber bands, a half gallon of water, and a stopwatch for me tonight.

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 9:55:07 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

~Fast Reply~

My opinion? You get reperation if you actually lived through it. Not your Grandmother, not your Great-Grandmother or anything else. Otherwise, I want reperations from the English damn it. And Norway too. Those nasty Vikings, coming to the country of my forefathers and mothers, raping and pillaging!

Everyone's people have been oppressed at one time or another.

AquaticSub:
It would seem that you are in favor of a 100% inheritance tax.
If the descendants of slaves had the inheritance of the work of their progenitors they would not be seeking reparations.
thompson

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 10:55:26 AM

LightHeartedMaam

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This is how I feel about it all: Shit happens. Get over it.

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 10:55:46 AM

Mercnbeth

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this slave's non-jewish protestant ancestors that ended up here before America was birthed came with the poor white class of immigrants who sold their own selves into servitude...no kidnap necessary...the only reparation this slave would ask from the government would be the same consideration for the same freedom of choice.

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 11:16:16 PM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

~Fast Reply~

My opinion? You get reperation if you actually lived through it. Not your Grandmother, not your Great-Grandmother or anything else. Otherwise, I want reperations from the English damn it. And Norway too. Those nasty Vikings, coming to the country of my forefathers and mothers, raping and pillaging!

Everyone's people have been oppressed at one time or another.

AquaticSub:
It would seem that you are in favor of a 100% inheritance tax.
If the descendants of slaves had the inheritance of the work of their progenitors they would not be seeking reparations.
thompson

If every person who descended from an enslaved person got back wages, the entire fiancial situation on this planet would shift drastically.

Every single person belongs to a people who have been oppressed, raped, enslaved, and brutialized without exception. Are we going to give reperations to the entire world? Is New York going to pay me for the Irish killed during the mobs? My people lost family members who would have earned wages. Reperations isn't about wages, it's about "My people were hurt, though I wasn't there personally, and I want to cash in on it".

Like I said, everyone's people has been brutalized at one time or another. It's never any worse or any better and if one group's descendents deserve money, everyone's does. From the Africans (and I want each tribe to pay the others tribes for the all the Africans they enslaved and sold to the white man), the American Indians, the Irish, the Greeks, the Jews, the Baptists, the Pagans, the Egyptians, the Chinese, the Christians, the Buddhists, etc. You name it, odds are pretty good some group enslaved/murdered en mass/raped and pillaged them at some point.

Who gets to decide whose pain is worth the most cash?

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/23/2007 3:22:53 AM

brightspot

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I don't believe in reparations because I truly believe in each individual living out their own karma and that all karma will be due to each also.

I understand the total fucked-upness of the white man kidnapping Africans for slavery here in America and that it was a total violation of human beings, but I also know that there would be very few of African Americans today whose ancesters that lived this atrosity, not be somewhat glad that history is what it is, so as not to now be living amoungst the very destitute and dying of most African regions today. I know many Africans now that are so grateful to have made it into this country and now be living their lives here. , amoung them my Eritrian and Somali friends who have settle here in Minneapolis.

I think in this country; the U.S.A. the biggest atrosity was done to the Native Americans and a lot of it still continues today. It is a fact that there are Native Americans that live dirt poor on reservations with little voice and hope as opposed to most other nationalities that live in this country.

It's only casino bucks for very few.

I don't think reparations are a way to impact healing, I think that is something that has to be done on a more human to human level.

Missy.

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/23/2007 3:29:52 AM

GoddessDustyGold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

As for reparations in general, that is going to be difficult. You can't pay the victims as they are dead.

Agree.

quote:

Though my guess is that ongoing discrimination is keeping the debate alive.

Disagree...
My belief is that the ongoing debate is keeping discrimination alive. *W*

All in all, I think it is time everybody gets over it.

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/23/2007 4:06:55 AM

LadyEllen

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Could we please get away from the idea that white slave traders kidnapped people from Africa? I'm not saying it couldnt have happened or didnt happen perhaps, once or a small number of times, but honestly - we have had Afro-Caribbean historians telling us it didnt happen this way, during black history month (or whatever it was called) a while back.

For a start, just how many slaves does one need, to cram a ship full? Hundreds and hundreds - kidnapping makes for a very poor method of gathering such numbers.

Secondly, just how long do we think that a roaming band of white guys are going to last, when they wander off into Africa on a kidnapping mission, when the locals know the place far better and are trained from birth in combat in that environment and greatly outnumber the white guys? And when the locals are on the look out and prepared for such incursions?

What is needed, is an efficient and safe means of gathering slaves - for which an industrial partnership with locals in a position to supply, is a great solution. Yes, one pays for the slaves and for the value added service of getting them but this cost is nothing compared to the cost of doing it oneself.

And, how lucky - a group of locals in just such a position to offer the service required, because theyve been doing the same for the Arabs for years. If anyone is to pay reparations, then perhaps all should.

And lets bear in mind that the first slaves in what was to become the US were not black at all - hundreds of Scots ended up over there in the early days, sold as slaves after being defeated in the civil wars here. This being the exact same situation whereby Africans were captured and sold into the same situation, I suggest we also compensate all those with Scottish surnames in the US too - just in case thats how their line came to be there.Would Ronald MacDonald please come forward?

E

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/23/2007 4:25:41 AM

meatcleaver

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Our responsibility is for the here and now and not for what some people did a couple of hundred years ago. We aren't doing a very good job of the here and now, we could be doing better but that is what we are responsible for.

Ironicaly LE, those Scots ended up being the most loyal to the Empire. They also made a few quid along the way too.

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/23/2007 6:30:35 AM

Petronius

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My understanding is that "reparations" like "Ebonics" is essentially a rightwing bumper-sticker.

The propagandistic technique has long been to find some issue supported by virtually nobody and hype it to the skies, making a special effort to label it with some biased term.

My understanding of the real action around "reparations" was the discovery of a few corporations today that were in existence at the time of slavery and deeply involved in the slave trade. There was some minor discussion about filing suit against those corporations based on the profits they made from slavery. I do not think the talk ever made it into an actual lawsuit; there's a thing called the statute of limitations that limits the time available to file suit, and it doesn't extend to 160 or so years.

So things with "reparations" never involved who did or did not morally "deserve" "reparations." It was based on straight contract law.

Given this, if Jews find a 2000+ year-old Egyptian corporation involved in slavery they can talk about filing suit against it.

If Scots find a 200+ corporation that profited from Scots slavery they can sue as well.

But all of that puts a very different cover on the bumper-sticker called "reparations."

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/23/2007 6:47:12 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LightHeartedMaam

This is how I feel about it all: Shit happens. Get over it.

LightHeartedMaam:
I could not agree with you more just as soon as you and your family spend about 300 years as slaves.
thompson

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/23/2007 6:54:27 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

~Fast Reply~

My opinion? You get reperation if you actually lived through it. Not your Grandmother, not your Great-Grandmother or anything else. Otherwise, I want reperations from the English damn it. And Norway too. Those nasty Vikings, coming to the country of my forefathers and mothers, raping and pillaging!

Everyone's people have been oppressed at one time or another.

AquaticSub:
It would seem that you are in favor of a 100% inheritance tax.
If the descendants of slaves had the inheritance of the work of their progenitors they would not be seeking reparations.
thompson

If every person who descended from an enslaved person got back wages, the entire fiancial situation on this planet would shift drastically.
The financial argument that you make is the self same argument that was made to justify slavery in the first place..."we cannot make any money growing cotton,indigo,tobacco etc. unless we have slave labor".

Every single person belongs to a people who have been oppressed, raped, enslaved, and brutialized without exception. Are we going to give reperations to the entire world? Is New York going to pay me for the Irish killed during the mobs?
It appears that you have failed to actually read what I posted. Slavery in the U.S. was not only for life it was for all eternity for your family.

My people lost family members who would have earned wages. Reperations isn't about wages, it's about "My people were hurt, though I wasn't there personally, and I want to cash in on it".

Like I said, everyone's people has been brutalized at one time or another. It's never any worse or any better and if one group's descendents deserve money, everyone's does. From the Africans (and I want each tribe to pay the others tribes for the all the Africans they enslaved and sold to the white man), the American Indians, the Irish, the Greeks, the Jews, the Baptists, the Pagans, the Egyptians, the Chinese, the Christians, the Buddhists, etc. You name it, odds are pretty good some group enslaved/murdered en mass/raped and pillaged them at some point.

Who gets to decide whose pain is worth the most cash?

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/23/2007 6:54:33 AM

Owner59

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Dave Chapelle`s take on reperations

http://www.jibjab.com/view/140957

Took a while to load,so give it some time.

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/23/2007 7:05:01 AM

Marc2b

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quote:

If every person who descended from an enslaved person got back wages, the entire fiancial situation on this planet would shift drastically.

Every single person belongs to a people who have been oppressed, raped, enslaved, and brutialized without exception. Are we going to give reperations to the entire world? Is New York going to pay me for the Irish killed during the mobs? My people lost family members who would have earned wages. Reperations isn't about wages, it's about "My people were hurt, though I wasn't there personally, and I want to cash in on it".

Like I said, everyone's people has been brutalized at one time or another. It's never any worse or any better and if one group's descendents deserve money, everyone's does. From the Africans (and I want each tribe to pay the others tribes for the all the Africans they enslaved and sold to the white man), the American Indians, the Irish, the Greeks, the Jews, the Baptists, the Pagans, the Egyptians, the Chinese, the Christians, the Buddhists, etc. You name it, odds are pretty good some group enslaved/murdered en mass/raped and pillaged them at some point.

Who gets to decide whose pain is worth the most cash?

< Message edited by Marc2b -- 10/23/2007 7:08:47 AM >

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/23/2007 7:08:06 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

As for reparations in general, that is going to be difficult. You can't pay the victims as they are dead.

Agree.

quote:

Though my guess is that ongoing discrimination is keeping the debate alive.

Disagree...
My belief is that the ongoing debate is keeping discrimination alive. *W*

All in all, I think it is time everybody gets over it.

GoddesDustyGold:
It appears that you are saying that discrimination no longer exists in the U.S.
If that is your position I would suggest that you get and read a copy of Black Like Me by John Griffin ISBN 0451192036. It is a story about how a journalist who chemically changed his skin color and lived as a black man for a while. If you truly believe that discrimination does not exist read the book and follow the directions and become black for a while and see how pleasant it really is to be black in amerika.
thompson

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/23/2007 7:48:42 AM

Owner59

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A lot of folks,mostly white folks,don`t really understand that it didn`t end with abolition.

Right afterwards,for most blacks,it was pretty much the same as far as lifestyle goes.Most fell into an economic slavery,with most whites/land owners, working together/conspiring ,to control the labor market.Labor, was really the only thing that that former slaves had to offer ,and didn`t unionize or were prevented from unions,and were exploited just as they were before abolition.

"40 achers and a mule",was a myth.

Segregation and unequal protection from the law were the order of the day and that lasted until very recently.

The were Jim Crow laws, and hundreds of other ways that blacks were excluded from full citizenship and a better future.Those laws,were also inflicting damage, until recently.

Add to the ,the KKK and dozens of other lesser know racist outfits,organized to keep blacks from achieving any sort of gain.
Anything from killing someone,to poisoning their well,to burning down their homes and barns/out buildings.

The CCC(which still exists today)was the Klan`s "front group",and worked everything in the public arena,from getting their guys elected,to organizing economic attacks and boycotts,against black businesses/farmers.

It didn`t end, over a hundred years ago.Not by a long shot.
Any talk about ,"blacks getting over it",or "my ancesters were exploited to",or "that was long ago",is at best,un-enlightened,and at worst,a very dark and hateful.

Today,blacks are still being targeted for violence,red-lining,unequal application of the law,etc.They still are doing news shows,where the job(or an apartment) is offered to whites and not to the black people who show up,even though both are equally qualified.

And what`s up with nooses showing all over the place,at collages and police stations,school yards and people`s homes?

One final thought.
We just gave reparations to Japanese-Americans,for their inturnment,during WWII.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/23/2007 8:01:47 AM >

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/23/2007 8:05:37 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

It appears that you have failed to actually read what I posted. Slavery in the U.S. was not only for life it was for all eternity for your family.

What, you think it was special?

That it was magically worse than being a Roman slave? An Egyptian slave? A Viking slave? That your family was somehow better off to be slaves somewhere else in another time period?

There is no "worse" or "better" slavery. If one group of slave's descendents deserve back wages, they all do.

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