RE: Reparations who deserves it more? (Full Version)

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Politesub53 -> RE: Reparations who deserves it more? (10/28/2007 7:21:28 AM)

Europe and the USA already give billions in aid to Africa, much of it wasted by the ruling elite. The G8 also wrote of some 40 billions worth of debt. The colonisation of Africa was mainly based on trade and the protection of trade routes to the far east. Yes Britain invaded Sudan but that was to stop the French gaining control of the Suez Canal. Britain almost went to war with France to stop the French cutting of the water supply to the Niger valley.

I`m not sure how you can link a world food shortage with obesity in the west, and not take into account things like Mugabes destruction of the farming industry. Look at how much of the money raised through live aid was syphoned off by corruption.

Sure the west isnt perfect but the rest of the world need to do their part too.




RealityLicks -> RE: Reparations who deserves it more? (10/28/2007 8:25:42 AM)

The G8 did cancel $40bn of debt in 2005 - note, dollars not sterling. The package was a start but it affected only the 20 poorest countries, while a further 60 are in immediate need. Now does £20 billion quid among twenty countries sound like a lot to you? Compared to say, Trident or a space program? What's more there are strings attached with the IMF interfering in what the money gained can be spent on. But all of that is just part of the whole. The real need is to allow developing nations to compete and make their own money and not rely on handouts. At present they can't do this because of restrictive practices and unfair trade policies originating in - you guessed it, the G8 countries.

Suez? Your grasp of history is sorely lacking, Politesub. Visit the British Museum and ask yourself how the Benin bronzes and the Gold of the Ashanti came to be there, neither country is anywhere near Sudan. Hint: the Brits never asked nicely. Now ask where the wealth to build the Suez Canal in the first place came from. But again, all that is just a small part of it, no-one wants to eat works of art.

As for the obesity thing; what is it, glandular? Haven't you heard, its a global economy. Subsidies to farmers here, taken from your taxes, btw are used to flood foreign markets, destroying their own growers capacity to compete. That creates dependence, once that sets in the prices go up, people starve and as a gesture of "kindness" are given aid, which creates more debt. And more profit.

Ghana's decision to invest in Aluminium production, what with its rich bauxite deposits was encouraged so that the country would buy the engineering expertise of the plant to smelt it. When they came to market, stockpiles had been built up and the prices driven down, resulting in economic ruin for their people and the hocking those same natural resources to the West. What happens next? The prices return to normal.

There are hundreds of horror stories of the ways in which the need for global capital to endlessly return profits year after year, come what may impacts on the worlds' poor. I'm sure in your heart of hearts you know thats true. Without long-range economic clout or an out break of ethical behaviour in London, Bonn and Wall Street, nothing will change. Its a red herring to blame the leadership in Africa. Vile as many of them are, their hands are tied - they are usually placemen  for foreign powers ruling the region as pro-consuls. Of course corruption ensues - they have no real power except to steal.

Don't be defensive, there's no need, no-one's attacking you (except your own Government, attacking your apathy and creating fear of a future where we don't exploit people).

Just hope the tea in that mug is Fair Trade!




meatcleaver -> RE: Reparations who deserves it more? (10/28/2007 8:36:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Europe and the USA already give billions in aid to Africa, much of it wasted by the ruling elite. The G8 also wrote of some 40 billions worth of debt. The colonisation of Africa was mainly based on trade and the protection of trade routes to the far east. Yes Britain invaded Sudan but that was to stop the French gaining control of the Suez Canal. Britain almost went to war with France to stop the French cutting of the water supply to the Niger valley.

I`m not sure how you can link a world food shortage with obesity in the west, and not take into account things like Mugabes destruction of the farming industry. Look at how much of the money raised through live aid was syphoned off by corruption.

Sure the west isnt perfect but the rest of the world need to do their part too.


The problem witrh aid is that it doesn't work and helps the donor countries more than the receiving countries. Opening up free trade would be more akin to helping people than donating aid which usually for the most part have strings.




Politesub53 -> RE: Reparations who deserves it more? (10/28/2007 8:57:37 AM)

Im not being defensive, but its an easy target to blame the west for all the worlds ills. As for fair trade, who does it benefit, not the average man in the street thats for sure. Prices here are higher than elsewhere on top of the UK being the most highly taxed nation on earth. Dont blame me, i didnt vote for Labour.

Your point about UK food exports is incorrect as most of it goes to Europe and America.

Btw.... It`s coffee in the mug [;)]




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