RE: "service"

RE: "service" (Full Version)

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unforegvn -> RE: "service" (10/23/2007 3:43:33 PM)
Domestic employment comes to mind when I think of service! Dirty gloves are not happy gloves. Domestic :service" workers typically do chores like cooking, ironing, washing, cleaning the house, buy food and drink accompany the FEMALE HEAD of the household to the market, taking the dog for a walk and if needed caring for the children, elderly or sick. Typically, you work 15 hours a day in exchange for room, board and scraps of food.

batshalom -> RE: "service" (10/23/2007 3:49:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy But, it does crack me up to read or see the FEMDOM attitude of what a privilege it would be for me to take her trash cans to the curb. This is only exciting for a malesub b/c of the possibility of where it will lead (BDSM experiences.) Once into the relationship, its just putting out the trash. (Love, caring, or straight sense of duty and obligation.) Mm. I'm going to have to disagree, cloudboy. Ok ... so ... I'm not a male sub. Maybe I have a different mindset than the one of which you speak, but I'm a service sub. Helping Aba with his billing, making coffee, washing dishes, taking out the trash, sitting in one pose until he signals me to move (the service aspect being that even though my body cramps and I want to move, I don't because it pleases him to see me immobile in certain formal positions) or cleaning the lint trap on the dryer, I am in heaven to do it for him. FOR him. That is not all of our relationship, of course. He is Aba (Daddy) and I am yaldah (girl). We talk and laugh and play and go to work and have a normal life. But I do not think I could have the same feelings for him, and maybe he would not have the same for me, if the service aspect was not there. Perhaps the misunderstanding comes from not being a service-oriented sub. Possible, eh?

LadySeraphina -> RE: "service" (10/23/2007 3:50:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rumtiger quote: ORIGINAL: LadySeraphina If I had weeds, I'd love to have my half-nekkid boys on dirty knees picking them, but that's just because it tickles me. Primarily, I enjoy gardening, so I'm not about to give away that task. (Sorry Rumtiger, I had to reply thoughtfully to your slightly sarcastic comment.) Appreciate the thoughtful reply, youd be suprised how often thats all one needs. still...yardwork = hell. I'm not saying I wouldent help my domme in something if she asked me I would have, and have even done certian things like put on dinner and a movie although I wound up cooking family portions and whatnot. (she never saw the Godfather...you fuckin believe that?), so I wound up eating ravioli and fettuchine alfredo with broccoli for about a week. I was just a bit put off by anyone saying that because maybe one wants play or whatever else without anything that falls into the service category, that it means said person is not a sub. It isent a matter of not knowing better that I dont have to do it, its just the perceptions of some people is all. I do see what you mean, but it comes down to this: In my life there are endless opportunities to play with people. If all you want to do is play, I think of you as a play partner, possibly a friend, and nothing more. In my house we all help out, and the more you contribute to the house, the more energy I have to play with you, doing the fun stuff. I'm not a lazy person, so even if I had a full household of boys, and could theoretically lay back and eat bonbons when I wasn't beating someone, I wouldn't. I need to be productive too. That said, I'm going to invest a great deal of time, energy, and emotion into the boys I own, so I appreciate what they do for me in return. If I had little time for the lifestyle, and only sought play partners, then I wouldn't require service from them. It doesn't make you less a sub, it just makes you unsuitable for someone like me. [sm=whip.gif] Lady S

cloudboy -> RE: "service" (10/23/2007 4:00:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadySeraphina I do see what you mean, but it comes down to this: In my life there are endless opportunities to play with people. If all you want to do is play, I think of you as a play partner, possibly a friend, and nothing more. In my house we all help out, and the more you contribute to the house, the more energy I have to play with you, doing the fun stuff. Lady S Exactly, its a barter system. ------ Re: bipolarber My position is one of questions and skepticism, not answers and condemnations. Your taking offense is misplaced, and your situation as you've descibed it (I do my fair share, I contribute) readily comports with my own posts. I don't see why your porcupine quills went up.

cloudboy -> RE: "service" (10/23/2007 4:28:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Yes, it's called power exchange---that implies that there are inequities built right in. Sometimes that bugs me. Mostly, though, I want what I want, with no apologies or explanation. This is NOT a barter system. It just cracks me up that some view this power exchange as a vehicle to get a sub/slave to mow the lawn. To me that's low brow BDSM, and FEMDOMs shouldn't be suprised when malesubs prove uninspired by that dynamic. I'm not here to dispute or dismiss anyone who is making something work in their relationship. More power to you. But, if something is not working (unrealistic expectations of service), then I say do a reevaluation.

thetammyjo -> RE: "service" (10/23/2007 4:52:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Yes, it's called power exchange---that implies that there are inequities built right in. Sometimes that bugs me. Mostly, though, I want what I want, with no apologies or explanation. This is NOT a barter system. It just cracks me up that some view this power exchange as a vehicle to get a sub/slave to mow the lawn. To me that's low brow BDSM, and FEMDOMs shouldn't be suprised when malesubs prove uninspired by that dynamic. I'm not here to dispute or dismiss anyone who is making something work in their relationship. More power to you. But, if something is not working (unrealistic expectations of service), then I say do a reevaluation. If one gets right down to it, aren't all relationships then "barter?" No one does something for nothing, not even the monks who do what they do to get a closer relationship with God. Mediate X hours and you get X contact with God and X closer to God. Why should femdom relationships be any different?

undergroundsea -> RE: "service" (10/23/2007 8:03:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo If one gets right down to it, aren't all relationships then "barter?" I think all relationships are give and take, which I see to be different than an explicit barter of activities. While I enjoy service and do see D/s value in it, I sometimes see service presented as a payment one must make to have a domme's attention. Over time I have seen different thoughts to drive such an expectation: a mechanism against feeling sexually used, a sub is thought to otherwise not bring enough to a relationship, more. Cheers, Sea

tienteaseme -> RE: "service" (10/23/2007 8:06:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Yes, it's called power exchange---that implies that there are inequities built right in. Sometimes that bugs me. Mostly, though, I want what I want, with no apologies or explanation. This is NOT a barter system. It just cracks me up that some view this power exchange as a vehicle to get a sub/slave to mow the lawn. To me that's low brow BDSM, and FEMDOMs shouldn't be suprised when malesubs prove uninspired by that dynamic. I'm not here to dispute or dismiss anyone who is making something work in their relationship. More power to you. But, if something is not working (unrealistic expectations of service), then I say do a reevaluation. Yes the power exchange imo should be negotiated, and once done and agreed then whatever goes ... goes, lawns, toilets or whatever, provided that was covered in the original agreement.

ARealizedDestiny -> RE: "service" (10/23/2007 8:36:38 PM)
IMHO.... I believe that those think in that mindset are those who do not understand the true meaning of "service". I think that service, in it's purest form, is nothing more than SERVING the desires of the TOP. If in your submissive mind, you think of what YOU want out of service, then IMHO, you are not serving the Top, but yourself. Service is about forgetting the 'self' and doing only what the Top desires.

cloudboy -> RE: "service" (10/23/2007 8:44:38 PM)
Well, to use you as an example, it my impression that you are with FOX b/c you like HIM. That's the driver. I imagine if you described him to someone else you'd focus on his intrinsic qualities: character, sense of humour, disposition, intellect, accomplishments, and his physical qualites. Although he may do service for you, you are not together for that reason. Also, if he felt that doing service for you was the only hook to get your attention (which means that his self is secondary), I would see that as a very thin interpersonal connection indeed. Relationships are mystical and organic at their best. Focusing on wants and needs being met --- that's an intrisically alienating view of relationships -- it reduces people to commodity status in a dating market. Sometimes that dehumanization and objectification is sexy, and there are definite BDSM angles to it, but I would never agree that all relationships are barter based.

undergroundsea -> RE: "service" (10/23/2007 9:29:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ARealizedDestiny IMHO.... I believe that those think in that mindset are those who do not understand the true meaning of "service". I think that service, in it's purest form, is nothing more than SERVING the desires of the TOP. If in your submissive mind, you think of what YOU want out of service, then IMHO, you are not serving the Top, but yourself. Service is about forgetting the 'self' and doing only what the Top desires. I don't think there is a trueness coefficient for service. And I think human beings and BDSM are too complex to be defined by a pure model of service. I think it is practical in service to think about self and the other. If a particular type of service or service in general is making the submissive unhappy, I think it serves both people in the big picture if adjustments are made. I think one can distinguish between service to a role (inspired by virtue of roles) and service to a person (inspired by how one feels about another). Both forms exist and are observed on each side of the slash. Cheers, Sea

thetammyjo -> RE: "service" (10/24/2007 6:01:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Well, to use you as an example, it my impression that you are with FOX b/c you like HIM. That's the driver. I imagine if you described him to someone else you'd focus on his intrinsic qualities: character, sense of humour, disposition, intellect, accomplishments, and his physical qualites. Although he may do service for you, you are not together for that reason. Also, if he felt that doing service for you was the only hook to get your attention (which means that his self is secondary), I would see that as a very thin interpersonal connection indeed. Relationships are mystical and organic at their best. Focusing on wants and needs being met --- that's an intrisically alienating view of relationships -- it reduces people to commodity status in a dating market. Sometimes that dehumanization and objectification is sexy, and there are definite BDSM angles to it, but I would never agree that all relationships are barter based. I'm with Fox because during training we realized that we would each be happy and benefit from my owning him. Part of that is, yes, us liking each other and by then actually feeling love for each other but that is not our foundation; Ds is our foundation. If the Ds ended, the relationship would be over especially the sexual part and he would cease to live with us. Hopefully we could still be friends but given my years of experience I wouldn't hold onto that as a strong possibility because once the Ds is over and particular if you move apart in terms of where you live, friendship wanes. We both entered into this dynamic fully aware of all of this. We negotiated it all and we've been flexible enough to change and help each other grew. It is a mutually positive dynamic and an amazingly romantic relationship. But we each get and must get certain things from it or we will no longer be in the relationship. I think that's true of all healthy relationships. I think unhealthy relationships continue when the energy is negative and both needs/desires are not being met. I'm just not grokking why this is particular to femdom. I think it applies to all relationships if we are honest about them.

thetammyjo -> RE: "service" (10/24/2007 6:02:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: undergroundsea quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo If one gets right down to it, aren't all relationships then "barter?" I think all relationships are give and take, which I see to be different than an explicit barter of activities. While I enjoy service and do see D/s value in it, I sometimes see service presented as a payment one must make to have a domme's attention. Over time I have seen different thoughts to drive such an expectation: a mechanism against feeling sexually used, a sub is thought to otherwise not bring enough to a relationship, more. Cheers, Sea I still don't see how this is particular to femdom so I'm not truly understanding the complaints.

petdave -> RE: "service" (10/24/2007 6:49:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ARealizedDestiny I think that service, in it's purest form, is nothing more than SERVING the desires of the TOP. If in your submissive mind, you think of what YOU want out of service, then IMHO, you are not serving the Top, but yourself. Service is about forgetting the 'self' and doing only what the Top desires. In its "purest form", okay. But to raise a point i alluded to in my last post: there are millions of people in the world that could use some free labor. The elderly and disabled who can no longer do simple physical things for themselves. Single parents who are overwhelmed by the demands of work and home. The Red Cross, churches, Habitat for Humanity. i'm sure Wal-Mart will take all the free cleaning help they can get. Hell, i could use a bit of service myself. There has to be something to make the submissive choose to serve the individual Top, particularly if She's already got a husband and a couple of play partners hanging around. i mean, okay, you want service because you're a Domme. At least sometimes. Fair enough. But there won't be any physical play involved, because it's a service relationship. Okay. And there won't be any micro-managing or verbal discipline because you expect everything to be done perfectly the first time. Okay. And there won't be any payment or other form of reward, because this is just service. Okay. And you won't be dressed in fetishwear, or allow the sub to be dressed up, because this isn't about fetish, it's about service. Okay. And don't expect to become part of your life, because this is just service. Okay. And you're young and healthy and in a relationship, possibly (as with the OP) even serving someone else yourself, so it's not like you can't do the work, you just don't wanna. Okay... So if i really feel that it's important to my inner self to make someone's life better, i can come and serve you. But i drive past a dozen homes on my way to work that have people living in them that are literally falling down where they stand because the owners are infirm and can't do the work or afford someone to do it. And they might actually be grateful for help, rather than copping 'tude about how i'm just doing this out of some ulterior motive. Now, i suppose that in Twue(tm) BDSM, everything would be settled by the inescapable Tractor Beam O' Domliness that the Top exudes. In practice, though, i think that there either has to be an emotional connection (i.e., serving your wife/husband/other long-term SO that you already have a relationship with encompassing more than just service), or when it comes to short-term/casual service, a quid pro quo.

Politesub53 -> RE: "service" (10/24/2007 8:19:14 AM)
Nicely put petdave...... Even people who do something for nothing are getting the reward of filling a need to serve, and hopefully being acknowledged for it. A simple well done pet is often enough reward. If there is no acknowledgement i may as well go clean up for the people across the street.

ARealizedDestiny -> RE: "service" (10/24/2007 8:52:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: petdave quote: ORIGINAL: ARealizedDestiny I think that service, in it's purest form, is nothing more than SERVING the desires of the TOP. If in your submissive mind, you think of what YOU want out of service, then IMHO, you are not serving the Top, but yourself. Service is about forgetting the 'self' and doing only what the Top desires. In its "purest form", okay. But to raise a point i alluded to in my last post: there are millions of people in the world that could use some free labor. The elderly and disabled who can no longer do simple physical things for themselves. Single parents who are overwhelmed by the demands of work and home. The Red Cross, churches, Habitat for Humanity. i'm sure Wal-Mart will take all the free cleaning help they can get. Hell, i could use a bit of service myself. There has to be something to make the submissive choose to serve the individual Top, particularly if She's already got a husband and a couple of play partners hanging around. i mean, okay, you want service because you're a Domme. At least sometimes. Fair enough. But there won't be any physical play involved, because it's a service relationship. Okay. And there won't be any micro-managing or verbal discipline because you expect everything to be done perfectly the first time. Okay. And there won't be any payment or other form of reward, because this is just service. Okay. And you won't be dressed in fetishwear, or allow the sub to be dressed up, because this isn't about fetish, it's about service. Okay. And don't expect to become part of your life, because this is just service. Okay. And you're young and healthy and in a relationship, possibly (as with the OP) even serving someone else yourself, so it's not like you can't do the work, you just don't wanna. Okay... So if i really feel that it's important to my inner self to make someone's life better, i can come and serve you. But i drive past a dozen homes on my way to work that have people living in them that are literally falling down where they stand because the owners are infirm and can't do the work or afford someone to do it. And they might actually be grateful for help, rather than copping 'tude about how i'm just doing this out of some ulterior motive. Now, i suppose that in Twue(tm) BDSM, everything would be settled by the inescapable Tractor Beam O' Domliness that the Top exudes. In practice, though, i think that there either has to be an emotional connection (i.e., serving your wife/husband/other long-term SO that you already have a relationship with encompassing more than just service), or when it comes to short-term/casual service, a quid pro quo. Not sure if you were trying to bitch me out here or not. But I was simply answering the question in my opinion. This person did NOT ask about emotional connections to service. She simply asked "what is service". I gave her my opinion of what service is. Nothing more. The operative word here being "my opinion", not "this is how it is, I know I'm right, and anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid".

LadyPact -> RE: "service" (10/24/2007 10:27:50 AM)
This last exchage is very interesting. I've often suggested to more than one service submissive that, while they conduct their search, they put in some volunteer time, so they might be of service to others while searching for the dynamic they might hope to have. The thing about it is, it doesn't have to be some sort of community service obligation or anything formal in anyway. What about things like random acts of kindness (to borrow the term)? I've found, over the years, I've observed that many service oriented people can get their "fix" from just doing spur of the moment things. Perhaps they don't see the "reward" portion of it, but still, it is an idea. On that note, there is, in fact a reward. Sitting here now today, I can tell you that I remember the last time someone I didn't know offered to open My car door when I was getting in. I haven't forgotten the last gentleman who carried My shopping basket while at the store because it looked heavy. I clearly remember the last person who paid Me a compliment and offered to refill My drink. Just last evening, it made Me smile that two males wanted to hold the door for Me while I was exiting the restaraunt. These things aren't only noticed, they make someone's day, and are good practice for serving. Don't think there aren't Dommes out there in the world who don't notice these little things. We're out there.

batshalom -> RE: "service" (10/24/2007 10:36:32 AM)
Nice post, LadyP. ~smiling~

cloudboy -> RE: "service" (10/24/2007 10:46:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo I still don't see how this is particular to femdom so I'm not truly understanding the complaints. Not complaints, but observations and theories. As for "particular to femdom," in my stay on this MB, "Service" as an issue has been particularly important to femdoms. Furthermore, this is the ASK A MISTRESS section and the topic is "service." " Sometimes "service" works in the femdom dynamic and sometimes it results in frustration on both sides. The latter is my point of inquiry. The latter and the former is the OP's point of inquiry.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: "service" (10/24/2007 10:54:41 AM)
I think it's pretty telling that the respondents who understand the service issue are FEMALE. These women are out there doing whatever their tops require of them, and that's pretty much the end of it. I am willing to say that not all of them are wild for every little thing they do, but they sure seem down with the "keeping the dominant happy" portion of the equation. Regarding LP's post---excellent, btw!---another kicker for males is when the female top says, "Hey, my friend just had surgery, she needs help around her house this week." or "Go get my kids from karate practice." WHOA! Not what they signed up for? I've seen men who were supposedly owned slaves get into ultracranky mode when faced with the prospect of dealing with those kinds of tasks. Which leads us back to the question of whether a person is into actually serving, or just doing exactly what they want to get exactly what they want.

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