RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (Full Version)

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corsetgirl -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/25/2007 5:42:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lilrissa

My first Master broke me down completely.  In many ways i allowed it to happen.  i saw the ways of him doing it coming right at me and yet allowed myself to bend to it because i wanted so desperately to please him and be the only one he wanted.  He did break me down. 

I felt broken down while I was in an abusive vanilla marriage with my ex husband.  At first, he told me that he loved me and things before marriage were good, then when we got married, he started belittling, slapping me, and punching me in the face.  One time, I sported a little shiner near my left eye. 

I can tell you that it took me 5 years of being with no one to find myself again and built up my self esteem again and regain any self worth.

It does take time to find strength and recover from an abusive relationship.  I have become a little more aware and steer clear of men who have those personalities.

I also remember a little voice inside of me crying out to myself saying 'i'm still in here!!' and wondering why i was never perfect enough for him.
That was one collar i was more than happy to see go bye bye. the struggle to get back to who it was i used to be before him was long and very difficult, but i am glad i went through it as i learned a lot about myself and my strengths and weaknesses.
To me, there shoudn't have to be a breaking down process. Submission should come naturally and with a little bit of training the slave will be what you want, but more so out of her/his need/want/desire to be that pleasing to the Master/Mistress. To break down one by use of mentality is harsh, cruel and can scar far more than many realize.  it is the truest hell on earth. i lived it.

I also agree with you as submission should come from the heart.  If a dom and a sub aren't compatbile, they should not be together.  When I was separated from my ex-husband, I never missed him and because of this experience, I am more aware of the difference between domination and abuse.   



SixFootMaster -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/25/2007 5:47:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: corsetgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: lilrissa

My first Master broke me down completely.  In many ways i allowed it to happen.  i saw the ways of him doing it coming right at me and yet allowed myself to bend to it because i wanted so desperately to please him and be the only one he wanted.  He did break me down. 

I felt broken down while I was in an abusive vanilla marriage with my ex husband.  At first, he told me that he loved me and things before marriage were good, then when we got married, he started belittling, slapping me, and punching me in the face.  One time, I sported a little shiner near my left eye. 

I can tell you that it took me 5 years of being with no one to find myself again and built up my self esteem again and regain any self worth.

It does take time to find strength and recover from an abusive relationship.  I have become a little more aware and steer clear of men who have those personalities.

I also remember a little voice inside of me crying out to myself saying 'i'm still in here!!' and wondering why i was never perfect enough for him.
That was one collar i was more than happy to see go bye bye. the struggle to get back to who it was i used to be before him was long and very difficult, but i am glad i went through it as i learned a lot about myself and my strengths and weaknesses.
To me, there shoudn't have to be a breaking down process. Submission should come naturally and with a little bit of training the slave will be what you want, but more so out of her/his need/want/desire to be that pleasing to the Master/Mistress. To break down one by use of mentality is harsh, cruel and can scar far more than many realize.  it is the truest hell on earth. i lived it.

I also agree with you as submission should come from the heart.  If a dom and a sub aren't compatbile, they should not be together.  When I was separated from my ex-husband, I never missed him and because of this experience, I am more aware of the difference between domination and abuse.   



I couldn't agree more. Well said, corsetgirl.



SixFootMaster -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/25/2007 5:49:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: SixFootMaster
It is however hypocritical of you to tell other people they cannot do things that are dangerous - if they accept responsibility for their actions, and it's consensual (implicitly or explicitly) then you really have no ground to do so.


if they know that what you are saying is bullshit and continue to do it, then sure...it is their problem....they need to accept responsibility for their actions....but if someone believes what you are saying is true...there is a problem....consent is nothing if it is not informed consent....and i am not hypocritical because i am informed about my choices...and i want others to be informed about the choices they make...



As explained earlier, it is almost always done with the full and knowing consent of the slave. In fact, the usual requirement is for it to be explicitly requested, and even then it requires an indepth and incredibly detailed knowledge and understanding of the woman involved. Yes, it can be done non-consensually, it is - in a pratical sense - possible. I have never suggested it should be.



xoxi -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/25/2007 6:02:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

well aren't we Mr. High and Mighty...glad you aren't my Master...my Dominant tells me to go smoke...so i think i am good...


And I am glad that He *is* my Master, because he cares enough about my well being to forbid me from intentionally inhaling toxins multiple times a day.

I personally would rather have a Master who told me to go jog around the block or hit a punching bag a few times to release nervous energy than one who told me to inhale carcinogens.

YMMV.



twistedkytten -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/25/2007 6:14:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SixFootMaster




Firstly, were you unhappy in this situation, was it something that somewhere at some level made you feel less or bad?

Secondly, have you ever had regret for pulling free from the relationship?

Thirdly, were you without personality, without dreams, passions, emotions and so on?



*smiles*
Thank You SFM to answer Your questions...

Yes,  at first I was very unhappy, it seemed that he was not the man that he said he was,  the situation also was not as I expected. but I felt there was still something I could learn and perhaps grow as a better slave from the situation. there were a couple of things that transpired early that made things the way they were.. but i learned to hang on to and find the joy in whatever I was given.. no matter how small it may seem.. and I learned a bit about my body language.. he cut my hair off (over the small of my back at that time)  because he said, it was a source of pride. I really felt ugly then, that is to say nothing of how I felt when He never touched me. at some point.. I was given a time limit nightly in which to get him off.. if i failed it was taken from me.. it happened once. it amazes me still to this day, how very much those 2 minutes came to mean to me... I cried myself to sleep for what seemed like forever until one day.. it just didn't hurt any more.. I think it was then, that I gave in/ gave up/ submitted completely. it seemed in some way that i was free however.. my soul had ceased to sing.. i had given myself to nothing more than empty existence at least that is what I felt like.. hollow..
No I do not regret leaving..
I no longer had dreams even the unattainable ones left me..
I dissasociated myself from my emotions, possibly because it was too painful not to
I remember still having my sense of humor for the most part.. but there was an underlying sadness.
I was let out of the house 1 time a week.. to walk to the store, to buy his lottery tickets and cigarettes
He flicked me in my forehead and laughed at me as he kicked me off his bed the one and only time I tried to "express passion"



chellekitty -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/25/2007 6:17:57 PM)

you don't have an ankle that dislocates or carple tunnel do you? and its not "nervous energy"....if you want to get down to the nitty gritty...its diseases i have been diagnosed with by several doctors...and i was told by medical professionals to continue smoking for right now...my Dominant is continuing my medical care....i would hate to have a Dominant that went against medical advice...wouldn't you?

edited to add:  my circulatory system is just fine...i've had my blood pressure taken imediately after smoking a cigarette and it's always perfect, actually the only problem i've ever had with it is that it is ocassionally too low...thanks for the concern...



laurell3 -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/25/2007 6:20:12 PM)

well xoxi when we start the about chelle's life post...I guess that would be relevant...however, this isn't it.  You deflecting with him doesn't make his crap any more credible than before, in fact, less.   It's kind of like the guy that gets a speeding ticket and keeps saying, but everyone else was speeding too....it in no way makes him less guilty of speeding now does it?



SixFootMaster -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/25/2007 6:30:58 PM)

Thank you again for the poignant replies - and I hope you do not mind if I take a few notes for my records?

It might seem contradictory , but what happened to you was - in my book at least - evil. I cannot express even partly the pain I feel just reading what was done to you, such things are an abomination and that is the true word for it, an abomination. The abuse of a slave, rather than rejoicing in her beauty and glory, supression and degredation. It makes me shudder.







SixFootMaster -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/25/2007 6:34:24 PM)

I have carpal tunnel in my right hand, fortunately it hasn't developed to the point of requiring surgery, and changes to my work station at work have largely alleviated any pain and compression. I've never heard it having anything to do with smoking though.



chellekitty -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/25/2007 6:38:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SixFootMaster

I have carpal tunnel in my right hand, fortunately it hasn't developed to the point of requiring surgery, and changes to my work station at work have largely alleviated any pain and compression. I've never heard it having anything to do with smoking though.


it doesn't directly, it was in reference to xoxi's suggestion of hitting a punching bag "to release nervous energy"...pay attention...thats what the whole post was about...i have carple tunnel in both wrists (you have carple tunnel in your wrists, not your hands) and i have had to get cortizone shots in my left wrist to get feeling back in that hand...i don't purposely do anything that would damage my nerves any further...i like having sensation in my hands...

edited to add: *puts on her Great Karnak turban and says* SFM will soon say that he "doesn't want to play anymore and will take his toys and find another sand box"...or something like that



xoxi -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/25/2007 7:00:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

well xoxi when we start the about chelle's life post...I guess that would be relevant...however, this isn't it.  You deflecting with him doesn't make his crap any more credible than before, in fact, less.   It's kind of like the guy that gets a speeding ticket and keeps saying, but everyone else was speeding too....it in no way makes him less guilty of speeding now does it?


*stares blankly at you wondering why saying smoking is unhealthy is "crap" and "not credible" and wondering if you are recommending that he encourage me to do something that destroys my lungs*

Or are you talking about the 9 pages of argument that I specifically did NOT comment on?



laurell3 -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/25/2007 7:03:31 PM)

I'm sure you get this, but that's the point....the 9 pages is what's relevant...not chelle's life or habits....pointing out someone else is wrong doesn't make the wrong person right.



SixFootMaster -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/25/2007 7:07:17 PM)

You're not nearly annoying enough for that, chelle.

So you can't take walks, because of your ankle, and you can't get physical because of your wrists, so you smoke instead - and somehow that keeps you alive? I'm missing something I know.

Incidentally, the carpal tunnel occurs in the wrist, but can be felt in the hand, the wrist, all the way up the arm to the shoulder. Occupational hazard for a person who uses computers all day. I suppose you have some sort of ergonomic setup to prevent damage or exacerbation, from using the keyboard and mouse when you're online and what not.

Edited to add: keyboard and mouse



xoxi -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/25/2007 7:08:54 PM)

Personally I agree with SFM.  I've been kinda staying away from the boards here because I've found the 'debates' do not agree with me.  That is why I didn't comment on the 9 pages - because I didn't want to inevitably be drawn into a debate that would increase my own blood pressure a few notches, not because I disagreed with my man.

I just felt the need to say that some of us are happy when a TPE relationship includes forbidding us to engage in our own bad habits, and disagreed with the dismissive tone in the post.

If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go back to doing things that are soothing and relaxing [:)]



Rover -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/25/2007 7:25:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

...consent is nothing if it is not informed consent....and i am not hypocritical because i am informed about my choices...and i want others to be informed about the choices they make...


That is a wonderful point, and a crucial element to legitimate consent.
 
John



Rover -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/25/2007 7:28:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SixFootMaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: SixFootMaster
It is however hypocritical of you to tell other people they cannot do things that are dangerous - if they accept responsibility for their actions, and it's consensual (implicitly or explicitly) then you really have no ground to do so.


if they know that what you are saying is bullshit and continue to do it, then sure...it is their problem....they need to accept responsibility for their actions....but if someone believes what you are saying is true...there is a problem....consent is nothing if it is not informed consent....and i am not hypocritical because i am informed about my choices...and i want others to be informed about the choices they make...



As explained earlier, it is almost always done with the full and knowing consent of the slave. In fact, the usual requirement is for it to be explicitly requested, and even then it requires an indepth and incredibly detailed knowledge and understanding of the woman involved. Yes, it can be done non-consensually, it is - in a pratical sense - possible. I have never suggested it should be.



How can this be true, when you have previously stated that one of the identifying characteristics of a slave is:

quote:

 
The need for this transition of control to be forced, and sudden, and without consent.


Those two statements are completely at odds with one another, and utterly irreconcileable. 
 
John



RRafe -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/25/2007 7:35:16 PM)

I wish people were able to look at things like this without the fantasy glasses on.

Informed consent is doable-within the law. The slave still has to agree-but cannot agree to cede her rights to an individual-ones guaranteed by the surrounding culture. So "non consent" is both moot-and illegal.

Even if you can get beyond that-the slave still needs to have the will to keep at it-so she consents by doing so.

So we have two things going on here. Either a criminal act.

Or some silly Top,puffing up to try and look bigger-by saying he can get away with doing things like this-and making excuses for something basically immoral.

I'm not buying it either.



SixFootMaster -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/25/2007 7:37:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

...consent is nothing if it is not informed consent....and i am not hypocritical because i am informed about my choices...and i want others to be informed about the choices they make...


That is a wonderful point, and a crucial element to legitimate consent.
 
John


Who's been going around promoting uninformed consent?



SixFootMaster -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/25/2007 7:39:02 PM)

quote:

How can this be true, when you have previously stated that one of the identifying characteristics of a slave is:


Need and reality are two differnet things, Rover.



chellekitty -> RE: Breaking a sub/slave? (10/25/2007 7:39:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SixFootMaster
You're not nearly annoying enough for that, chelle.

thanks
quote:


So you can't take walks, because of your ankle, and you can't get physical because of your wrists, so you smoke instead - and somehow that keeps you alive? I'm missing something I know.

you obviously did not read your slave's post....i can not "jog around the block" because my ankle dislocates and i can not "hit a punching bag a few times" because i have carple tunnel....sure i could take walks...and i can get physical...but that would not solve my problems because my problem is not "nervous energy"...and yes you are missing something, because the intimate details of my problems are not up for discussion on public boards and especially not with you...but just to ease your mind...my doctors and therapists (people with degree's in this kind of stuff and extensive knowledge of my history) have told me NOT to quit smoking...
quote:


Incidentally, the carpal tunnel occurs in the wrist, but can be felt in the hand, the wrist, all the way up the arm to the shoulder. Occupational hazard for a person who uses computers all day. I suppose you have some sort of ergonomic setup to prevent damage or exacerbation, from using the keyboard and mouse when you're online and what not.

indeed the pain from carpal tunnel can be felt the whole length of the nerve, from where it originates in the spine thru the finger tips...but your original statement was " I have carpal tunnel in my right hand"...carpal tunnel syndrome is when there is swelling in the canal where the nerve goes thru...and again...thanks for the concern, yes i have an ergonomic keyboard and have made modifications to my posture and usage to prevent further damage



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