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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/31/2007 6:35:47 PM   
EPGAH


Posts: 500
Joined: 12/25/2006
Status: offline 		Maybe 'cause it works for them? They bomb a train in Spain and Spain bows out...They bomb a building in America and Americans just get pissed off and come after some terrorist blood...
Come to think of it, all our big victories came after a big loss: Alamo (Mexican-American War--Americans claim we won, but to the Mexicans, that status is still in debate (Although, there IS a legend that a general/real-estate developer named Sam Houston "surprised" Santa Anna with a shotgun while Santa Anna was distracted by a whore...If the treaty he signed then had been honored by the Mexican government, America wouldn't have taken as much land...But the Mexican government claimed that Santa Anna didn't have the authority to cede territory--so it took an extra year, America won anyways, we got a lot more land, but we had to pay for it--and a century and a half later, they claim that the treaty might be invalid because it was exacted "at gunpoint"--isn't that the idea of war?)), Fort Sumter (Civil War--confirmed victory), Lusitania (World War I--confirmed victory, although our "allies" have neglected to pay back the loans we made to them), and Pearl Harbor (World War II--confirmed win, but we helped rebuild our enemies...Some might say that's how Japan catapulted from Second World to First World status...? Now, however, Japan doesn't feel grateful...)
Of course, these are all huge oversimplifications, because each one took several years, and lots of American deaths, but we didn't pull out of them, and we shouldn't back down now...And besides, even if the third world can outbreed us, as long as we're killing more of them than they are of us, we're "winning" in a statistical sense...

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 361
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/31/2007 6:38:32 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

Maybe 'cause it works for them? They bomb a train in Spain and Spain bows out...They bomb a building in America and Americans just get pissed off and come after some terrorist blood...


Then why did Bush, following Bin Laden's demands, remove troop from Bin Laden's homeland Saudi Arabia AFTER 9/11???

Seems to me, it's Bomb the WTC, and the US Obeys your demands.

I know there are people living in Fantasy Land where OBEYING TERRORIST DEMANDS is not, in some way, OBEYING TERRORIST DEMANDS, but they're probably just crazy.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to EPGAH)
Profile   Post #: 362
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/31/2007 6:50:07 PM   
EPGAH


Posts: 500
Joined: 12/25/2006
Status: offline 		Well, we didn't have enough troops anymore to police Saudi Arabia AND attack Iraq...Please remember, our rounds of budget cutbacks have gone something like this:
Fiscally Responsible Senator: We have to cut SOMEthing out of the budget...too much red ink...blah, blah, blah...Let's cut...excess welfare!
All the rest: NO! We can't cut that! Those poor...poor people!
Fiscally Responsible Senator: Then let's cut...Multilingual bureaucracy!
The rest: NO! We have so many immigrants and illegals who'd be unable to bilk our system unless we wrote our official documents in the invaders' languages!
Fiscally Responsible Senator: Then let's cut...Foreign aid!
The rest: Aww, but as the First World, we're somehow OBLIGATED to provide for the excess population that third-worlders can breed, but can't support!
Fiscally Responsible Senator: <Frustrated> Then let's cut...Military spending!
The rest: Great idea! Being the richest country in the region, we don't need to spend on weapons to defend ourselves from scum who want to invade, rob, and/or kill us!
So if I remember correctly, our military strength is about ¼ what it USED to be 10 years ago...and yes, I attended a local base-closing...Predicting that someday we'd need them...And no, I don't have some crazy psychic powers, it's a simple matter of calculation...We disarm ourselves, enemy attacks us unawares, we have to hurry and rearm..."Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance"(TM)

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 363
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/31/2007 7:47:10 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH

Well, we didn't have enough troops anymore to police Saudi Arabia AND attack Iraq...Please remember, our rounds of budget cutbacks have gone something like this:


Then why attack Iraq? It's not like they were any sort of a threat to anyone EXCEPT Bush's alleged manhood.

IN FACT, Bush had to commit Felony Fraud in violation of 18 USC 371 to invade and occupy Iraq, so it's pretty clear that invading Iraq was the mistake, NOT keeping troops in Saudi Arabia to 1) Prosecute the fight against the terrorists who planned, FINANCED, and executed the 9/11 attacks, and 2) Show the Terrorists DEMANDING our withdrawal that WE WILL NOT NEGOTIATE, and since they've DEMANDED we leave, we ain't leaving.

And now, wounded pride at falling for the Con, prevents some from "Manning-Up" and admitting their mistakes.

The first step in recovery is admitting you have a problem.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to EPGAH)
Profile   Post #: 364
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/31/2007 11:21:59 PM   
pinkme2


Posts: 236
Joined: 8/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

Do tell. Feel free to elucidate, my capriciously vociferous compatriot.

~stef




Well, as a High Profile homosexual, Condi has a duty to other homosexuals to be a vanguard for their equal rights.

Since she's Secretary of State, she *should* give a shit about those serving this nation who are discriminated and harassed simply because of their orientation.

Since she's apparently more than happy to hide in the closet, it shows a lack of guts. She *should* resign, saying, "If you're going to discriminate against gays in the military who desire to serve, than I cannot."

She *SHOULD* put "It's ME or your narrowminded bigotry" as the 2 options Bush has. But she's willing to hide in the closet.



So I refute all of your "points" earlier, and instead of engaging in actual debate or conceding that you have no grasp on actual facts or logic, you simply declare them again? 

This is dishonest debating.  I can't believe how little integrity you have, and yet you are calling someone else on it.  Shameful.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 365
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/31/2007 11:23:58 PM   
pinkme2


Posts: 236
Joined: 8/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

Maybe 'cause it works for them? They bomb a train in Spain and Spain bows out...They bomb a building in America and Americans just get pissed off and come after some terrorist blood...


Then why did Bush, following Bin Laden's demands, remove troop from Bin Laden's homeland Saudi Arabia AFTER 9/11???



You are doing it again.  Repeating lies and ignoring facts.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 366
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/31/2007 11:26:12 PM   
pinkme2


Posts: 236
Joined: 8/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH

Well, we didn't have enough troops anymore to police Saudi Arabia AND attack Iraq...Please remember, our rounds of budget cutbacks have gone something like this:


Then why attack Iraq? It's not like they were any sort of a threat to anyone EXCEPT Bush's alleged manhood.

IN FACT, Bush had to commit Felony Fraud in violation of 18 USC 371 to invade and occupy Iraq,

Uh.. now you are sounding absolutely insane.  Perhaps it's time to take your meds?  You cannot prosecute an official for actions relating to their job.  There was no fraud, nor felony shown by a court.  Quit repeating things as facts when you have no sources, only your own opinion. 

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/1/2007 8:20:19 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH

\ How many of YOUR friends have been gunned down by the foreign scum who believe invading America and killing our people are their "right"...Once that number equals or exceeds 5, THEN you can take the moral high-hat with me...Not before!



....6......although they were killed by US funded terrorists, not Americans openly. Those IRA bombs were expensive, in many ways.

(in reply to EPGAH)
Profile   Post #: 368
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/1/2007 8:24:28 AM   
EPGAH


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Joined: 12/25/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH
\ How many of YOUR friends have been gunned down by the foreign scum who believe invading America and killing our people are their "right"...Once that number equals or exceeds 5, THEN you can take the moral high-hat with me...Not before!

....6......although they were killed by US funded terrorists, not Americans openly. Those IRA bombs were expensive, in many ways.

I don't recall the IRA operating on American soil...and if that is still true, that makes them the only terrorist organization who does NOT take advantage of Americans' "openness" to other "cultures"--especially "cultures" hostile to our own!
The sad fact is that if there's a cause you like, there's very little I or any other American can do to prevent you from championing it with time, speech, even money! Check the lawyers donating their time to "help" illegals circumvent our laws!

(in reply to philosophy)
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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/1/2007 8:25:48 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH

[I don't recall the IRA operating on American soil...


..noraid.....

(in reply to EPGAH)
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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/1/2007 9:28:59 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		mnottertail: there is not a country on this planet that can come close to our military strenght in firepower.

Herfacechair:
But that didn’t stop a terrorist group from striking the Pentagon and the World Trade Center.
Yep, and so what does that have to do with this?

This statement tries to justify a, let’s pull out, and just worry about our defense stance.
If anything, that represents a retreat.
Your statement there above this, might, but has owt to do with mine.

Asymmetrical warfare gives the weaker combatant the chance to prevail against the stronger one. Provided that the later fails to understand unrestricted warfare, and continue to cling to “traditional” means of warfare.

This, is in a nutshell, a great deal of the issue.  There were many vets here (and others) that said, ok fuck it, we are dead set against you going in here based on some notion of WMD and terrorism, but if you are willing to kill every man woman and child in the middle east that affronts us (including saudis and whatnot) then we will back you because to be exactly like saddam hussein is what it is going to take to govern the place.  But none of this has owt to do with 9/11.

Note that a great deal of the furor here in the states is not coming from the pinko faggot communist hippy preppy college richies of yore, rather it is coming from 'the establishment'.

There has not been one soul here that says you get out after the terrorists and the people who did 9/11 or financed it, or planned it or was ancillary to it, that we won't back that fuckin' job to the hilt.

Regarding your quip about vietnam, as I remember that great and venerable 'Democrat' of a Richard Nixon was the one who threw in the towel on that little imbriglio.  So lets not spill over with examples that have no bearing on everything all the time.

As you may have guessed, I am in complete disagreement that your refutations were logical, germain or topical.  I don't possess the will to sit here and refute neo-conservatives with their ass in a swivel chair and their feet in the wastebasket sockpuppeting unlearned cogitation, word for word or sentence for sentence.

Cordially,
Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/1/2007 9:32:10 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

You cannot prosecute an official for actions relating to their job.


Bullshit.

Vice Presidential Chief of Staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, who was indicted October 28, 2005 on five counts of obstruction of justice, perjury, and making false statements; convicted of four counts on March 6, 2007, sentenced to 30 months in federal prison, $250,000 fine, and 2 years supervised release on June 5, 2007;

Tom DeLay (R-TX), reprimanded twice by House Ethics Committee and aides indicted (2004-2005); eventually DeLay himself was indicted (October 2005); DeLay resigned from the House 9 June, 2006

Former Clinton administration National Security Advisor Sandy Berger pleads guilty (2005) to unlawfully removing classified documents from the National Archives in October 2003

Duke Cunningham (R-CA) resigned from the House of Representatives and pleaded guilty on November 28, 2005 to charges of conspiracy to commit bribery, mail fraud and wire fraud, and tax evasion for underreporting his income in 2004. Prosecutors said Cunningham admitted to receiving at least $2.4 million in bribes.

Bob Ney...

Henry Cisneros payments controversy - Henry Cisneros resigns as Housing Secretary and, after lengthy probe that began in 1995, pleads guilty (1999) to lying to the FBI about money he paid former mistress Linda Medlar a.k.a. Linda Jones; later pardoned by President Clinton in 2001 (Possibly reclassify or cross-reference to Sex scandal)

Bruce Babbitt, Interior Secretary, independent probe (1998-2000) of alleged lying to Congress concerning influence of money in 1995 American Indian tribe casino decision finds no criminally prosecutable perjury by Babbitt

Walter R. Tucker III of California resigned before bribery conviction (1996)

Mario Biaggi convicted (1988) in Wedtech scandal of bribery, extortion, racketeering, filing a false tax return, mail fraud, and false financial disclosure; resigned from U.S. House before he could be expelled

It goes on, and on...

In a NATION OF LAWS, no-one is exempt from The Law.

Don't do the CRIME, if you can't do the time.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to pinkme2)
Profile   Post #: 372
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/1/2007 9:36:57 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Officals generally have qualified immunity,,, the violation of the law has to be outside the scope of their legitimate duties.

There is no law against an official making decisions that you don't agree with, no matter how much you pretend otherwise, FB

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 373
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/1/2007 9:42:54 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkme2

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

Maybe 'cause it works for them? They bomb a train in Spain and Spain bows out...They bomb a building in America and Americans just get pissed off and come after some terrorist blood...


Then why did Bush, following Bin Laden's demands, remove troop from Bin Laden's homeland Saudi Arabia AFTER 9/11???



You are doing it again. Repeating lies and ignoring facts.



Which of these is a lie, and what facts contradict them?

August 1995: Bin Laden Criticizes Saudi Royals, Threatens Attacks on US Forces in Saudi Arabia
August 1996: Bin Laden Calls for Attack on Western Targets in Arabia
May 26, 1998: Bin Laden Promises to Bring Jihad to US


April 30-August 26, 2003: US Withdraws Most of Its Troops from Saudi Arabia, Fulfilling Key Bin Laden Demand

The withdrawal of US troops from Saudi Arabia has been bin Laden’s most persistent demand since the troops entered the country in 1990.

For instance, in his 1996 fatwa (see August 1996), he said, “The latest and greatest of these aggressions incurred by Muslims since the death of the Prophet… is the occupation of the land of the two Holy Places… by the armies of the American Crusaders and their allies.” [Daily Telegraph, 4/30/2003]

One senior US military official says the decision to leave was made partly to help relieve internal political pressure on the royal family: “The Saudis will be happy when we leave. But they’re concerned that it not look as if it’s precipitous, because it will look like bin Laden won.” [Washington Post, 4/30/2003]

One unnamed senior Saudi prince who participated in high-level debates about the withdrawal says, “We are fighting for our lives, and we are going to do what is necessary to save our behinds.” [New York Times, 4/30/2003]


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to pinkme2)
Profile   Post #: 374
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/1/2007 9:46:36 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Officals generally have qualified immunity,,, the violation of the law has to be outside the scope of their legitimate duties.

There is no law against an official making decisions that you don't agree with, no matter how much you pretend otherwise, FB


I would say that:

"the presentation of information to Congress and the general public through
deceit,
craft,
trickery,
dishonest means,
and fraudulent representations,
including
lies,
half-truths,
material omissions,
and statements made with reckless indifference to their truth or falsity,
while knowing and intending that such fraudulent representations would influence Congress' decisions"

falls outside of the "scope of their legitimate duties", wouldn't you?


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 375
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/1/2007 9:49:00 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkme2

So I refute all of your "points" earlier, and instead of engaging in actual debate or conceding that you have no grasp on actual facts or logic, you simply declare them again?

This is dishonest debating. I can't believe how little integrity you have, and yet you are calling someone else on it. Shameful.



There's NO DEBATE here.

*I SAY* that Condi is a coward for not taking a stand in support of other homosexuals in the service of her nation.

That's it. Agree or disagree, but as far as I'm concerned, there's nothing to talk about.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to pinkme2)
Profile   Post #: 376
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/1/2007 10:27:04 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Officals generally have qualified immunity,,, the violation of the law has to be outside the scope of their legitimate duties.

There is no law against an official making decisions that you don't agree with, no matter how much you pretend otherwise, FB


I would say that:

"the presentation of information to Congress and the general public through
deceit,
craft,
trickery,
dishonest means,
and fraudulent representations,
including
lies,
half-truths,
material omissions,
and statements made with reckless indifference to their truth or falsity,
while knowing and intending that such fraudulent representations would influence Congress' decisions"

falls outside of the "scope of their legitimate duties", wouldn't you?



So all the politicians and officials are honest on your planet?


If the lying satisfies all the elements of an existing crime, they can be prosecuted, and have been.
Let me know when you get to the section of the criminal code that specifically names deceit, craft, trickery, and half-truths as crimes.

In the pursuit of their everyday lying, they are covered by immunity. Just like police are covered from assault charges when they make physical contact with another person...unless it crosses a line, in which case the immunity goes away.

I suspect that the reason you cannot see those lines, or think that they can be redrawn at your whim, is that they are 'reasonable' lines.... i.e. involving the ability to reason.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 377
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/1/2007 10:34:24 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkme2

So I refute all of your "points" earlier, and instead of engaging in actual debate or conceding that you have no grasp on actual facts or logic, you simply declare them again?

This is dishonest debating. I can't believe how little integrity you have, and yet you are calling someone else on it. Shameful.




There's NO DEBATE here.

*I SAY* that Condi is a coward for not taking a stand in support of other homosexuals in the service of her nation.

That's it. Agree or disagree, but as far as I'm concerned, there's nothing to talk about.


No, *YOU SAID* that any homosexual in government service was prohibited from co-owning property by DADT, and that it should be enforced on Condi.

Your later flip flop notwithstanding, not talking just leaves the impression that your homophobia is stuck in your mouth.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 378
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/1/2007 10:59:27 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

No, *YOU SAID* that any homosexual in government service was prohibited from co-owning property by DADT, and that it should be enforced on Condi.



Not PROHIBITED, but that joint-ownership of property with your lover is an indicator which anyone who doesn't want to get caught wouldn't display.

Once someone mentions that you're setting up house, you're in violation of the Regs, investigation ensues, unsightly discharge, etc...

How is PROMOTING equality for people regardless of their orientation, and rejecting the DADT bullshit, and being pissed of at Closet Gays who don't support their own Freedom and Liberty -- Homophobia?

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 11/1/2007 11:00:48 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 379
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 11/1/2007 11:04:29 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Last I checked, one of the witch hunt red flags under DADT was also a single female working too hard and doing a superlative job... surely you aren't accusing Condi of that are you?

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 380
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