RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........

RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (Full Version)

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NorthernGent -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 1:45:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pernicious The sad fact is that the British do some of the longest hours in Europe work wise. So they get a bit of freedom from their dreary everyday lives and they go a bit mad. Fix the work culture and you’ll fix tourist culture also I think. Hmmmm, I doubt very much that English lads see their lives as dreary. They go to work, watch British comedy and American films in the evenings, probably go to the football at the weekend, and will go out in clubs and pubs Friday and Saturday night with their mates and will try and bag a woman at the end of the night. Maybe take a girl out during the week. To them, they're enjoying themselves, to someone with a different idea of what it means to be alive, they'll scoff at the idea that such a lifestyle can be enjoyable. It's all a matter for different levels of thinking. A few years ago, I got to observe groups of American lads at close quarters while I was in Japan. They were exactly the same as groups of young English lads when they go abroad....walking into bars like they owned the place just like English lads...and completely indifferent to the locals. I'm not aware of a mythical land where all of the inhabitants spend their time in art galleries and museums during their spare time, and want to mingle with the locals for a chat about sheep movements in each others' countries during the 13th century. In perspective, England still punches above its weight on the world stage. We remain a prosperous people. We have a problem with the yob element, but then we always have had: this is nothing new. Edited to add: I know you didn't say that such a mythical land existed :-)

meatcleaver -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 1:47:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: Pernicious The sad fact is that the British do some of the longest hours in Europe work wise. So they get a bit of freedom from their dreary everyday lives and they go a bit mad. Fix the work culture and you’ll fix tourist culture also I think. Been to France lately? They really know how to treat tourists and its not because they work long hours, they just hate foreigners.[:)] I visited France in 1983 and 2001, and folks were incredibly nice to me both times. I lived in France for a couple of years, I used to own a house near the Loire and had a great time and made some great friends. People are people wherever you go, there are good and bad but unfortunately it is the bad that often stand out. My ex was pissed because she was never accepted as being French despite having a French mother. Her auntie lived the whole of her life in France and could only speak French apart from broken Dutch and was never accepted as French.

Pernicious -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 1:51:03 PM)
It’s funny because the locals of any tourist area would prefer you didn’t interact with them. Half the year they work in the tourist trade and the other half of the year I haven’t got a clue how they make their money. Has anyone ever been to Cornwall in winter? They all hate people from the rest of the UK but they’d have to rely on farming if it wasn’t for tourism and even then they’d have to deal with the rest of us.

LadyEllen -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 1:54:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pernicious quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen The issue is not that they do what they want. The issue is that they want to do it. And that by doing it, they bring shame and embarassment on our nation. E When you hear of British tourists being raped in Greece is that shame on the British as well? Do Greeks feel shame for the actions of the locals? No I only feel shame for the things I do not for the things others do. A handful of Greek rapists do not engender an image of every Greek being a rapist. But when mobs of Brits repeatedly behave like animals wherever they go, it does engender an image of all Brits being that way. That is the issue - not that there are good and bad everywhere, but that we have far too many who behave in a way that afflicts all of us by association. But, I dont and cant blame them - it is an issue which is endemic in the country which is to blame, and they are only conforming to that which they have been instructed is to be aspired to. E

meatcleaver -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 1:56:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen But when mobs of Brits repeatedly behave like animals wherever they go, it does engender an image of all Brits being that way. The Dutch, the Germans and the Scandinavians keep having this very same debate about their yobs that go on holiday and giving their country a bad name. It is not unique to Britain.

dcnovice -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 1:57:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen But when mobs of Brits repeatedly behave like animals wherever they go, it does engender an image of all Brits being that way. The Dutch, the Germans and the Scandinavians keep having this very same debate about their yobs that go on holiday and giving their country a bad name. It is not unique to Britain. I'm just glad we Americans don't do anything like that.

meatcleaver -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 2:01:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen But when mobs of Brits repeatedly behave like animals wherever they go, it does engender an image of all Brits being that way. The Dutch, the Germans and the Scandinavians keep having this very same debate about their yobs that go on holiday and giving their country a bad name. It is not unique to Britain. I'm just glad we Americans don't do anything like that. Have you been to Ropongi dori in Tokyo recently? I was there a couple of days ago and I can tell you, America is not imune from youths away from home and letting the side down.

Pernicious -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 2:02:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen A handful of Greek rapists do not engender an image of every Greek being a rapist. But when mobs of Brits repeatedly behave like animals wherever they go, it does engender an image of all Brits being that way. That is the issue - not that there are good and bad everywhere, but that we have far too many who behave in a way that afflicts all of us by association. But, I dont and cant blame them - it is an issue which is endemic in the country which is to blame, and they are only conforming to that which they have been instructed is to be aspired to. E I could easily say a handful of yobs do not endanger the reputation of the average British tourist. The problem you have is the UK media reports nothing other than yob culture because the chattering classes love to moan about that which is happening in a council estate five miles from where they live. So the news you are most likely to hear about is ‘British yobs do this abroad...’ I doubt the problem is as big as it is reported to be. Is it possible that the locals hate British tourists in the same way that we hate photocopiers and faxes i.e. they are at work we are on holiday.

dcnovice -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 2:02:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen But when mobs of Brits repeatedly behave like animals wherever they go, it does engender an image of all Brits being that way. The Dutch, the Germans and the Scandinavians keep having this very same debate about their yobs that go on holiday and giving their country a bad name. It is not unique to Britain. I'm just glad we Americans don't do anything like that. Have you been to Ropongi dori in Tokyo recently? I was there a couple of days ago and I can tell you, America is not imune from youths away from home and letting the side down. I was kidding, darling.

NorthernGent -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 2:04:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice I was kidding, darling. lol...so was MC...this is how he flirts.

LadyEllen -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 2:07:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen But when mobs of Brits repeatedly behave like animals wherever they go, it does engender an image of all Brits being that way. The Dutch, the Germans and the Scandinavians keep having this very same debate about their yobs that go on holiday and giving their country a bad name. It is not unique to Britain. So, we're saying then that the problem behaviour is something inherent to the Germanics? This would not be surprising, given how we have collectively rampaged around the world. This then makes the likes of me the problem, in that it is I who is out of step with the way I ought to be. I should instead take up a life of heavy drinking, casual violence, gang mentality and spikin lok me bren urts. E

Gwynvyd -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 2:10:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 NG..... i have always been peasant stock, despite popular belief Dickens was writing about the truth. London had slums, its just now they are high rise. I wouldnt have swapped a minute of it, people left keys hanging on string in letter boxes, neighbours were expected to let themself in and wait, helping themself to food and drink. I doubt it was much different than up north. The only complaint i had on my travels through America is " Theres no fackin chips. " Just fries and they just aint the same. [;)] ahh you just have to know where to go in the States.. or have an enlightened cook here who knows how to do fish and chips correctly. I never understood the whole class thing honestly.. it exists here in the states too... but it doesnt seem to be so rife with angst. ( Maybe we have been at it for less time and that is why ) We certainly have our peasant stock.. of all sorts. The upper classes seem to take no note of them.. while the peasants here are busy buying consumer products they dont need to try and out "bling" one another to show off worldly possesions. Odd if you ask me. Save up, and stop being down trodden. having lived in Naples Fl. where there simply is no lower class housing or people... they ship them in to work menial jobs.. it was a real eye opener. Odd going to other towns and seeing things like pawn shops, resale stores.. and old buildings where everything isnt shiny, new, and sanitized. I had forgotten what the real world looked like. Glad I got out of there with my personality intact. My family had 2 sides here. The down to earth, worked the land.. but did ok. and the Snobbish " The Peasants are revolting ~ of course thier Revolting..They are peasants after all" sort. I dont believe we should all be totaly equalized and brought down to the lowest denominator.. ( just like in public schools) rolls her eyes But I think each and every single one of us has something good to bring to the table if they are willing to work hard and try. (how many upperclass citizens dont work hard or try just simply lounge?.. same with lower class... to me they both are bums. Just a twist of fate seperates. ) BTW what is the bloody differance in calling someone British or English? I never caught onto that. I must be slow. I have an Irish sub, and an English/British slave ( oh the fun! ) as well as a Cuban female wife/sub. (Pray for me.) I am Native American... and a Francophile. chuckles Yes I love the frogs.. but you guys as well. ( at least of late.. much to the chagrin of my Irish sub.. ) Gwyn

NorthernGent -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 2:44:44 PM)
Right then, summary of proceedings: We all agree that we have a yob problem. We have different views on the extent, accountability and whether its a peculiarly English phenomenon. What's the solution, then?.......we could always operate a system of direct democracy where we rotate government on a weekly basis and absolutely everyone is guaranteed to run the country at some point in their lives: it would generate universal interest in the nation's health!, or we could abolish heriditary gain and operate a meritocracy, or we could operate a policy of devolved power whereby communties are further empowered, or something else? P.S. Seeks, "execute the bastards" is not on the table. P.P.S Gwyn, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland constitute Britain and the British.

Gwynvyd -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 2:45:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen But when mobs of Brits repeatedly behave like animals wherever they go, it does engender an image of all Brits being that way. The Dutch, the Germans and the Scandinavians keep having this very same debate about their yobs that go on holiday and giving their country a bad name. It is not unique to Britain. I'm just glad we Americans don't do anything like that. cleans iced tea off of her monitor Oh thats hilarious... If it were up to me.. I would have my own nice little tropical island of kinky, sane, and realitvely smart people. The rest of the world could sod off. ( well as long as I had cable and internet. ) Living in Florida I run into a lot of tourists... I have never met a single rude German tourist... they have all been friendly, nice.. and very open. Same with Russians. Every one else is hit or miss honestly... If I notice an accent and touristy behavior I generaly tend to strike up a conversation if I am in the mood and try to be helpful. Esp. if I speak thier native language. Traveling packs of young men on holliday from any country to any country are bound to be retarded... it is just nearly a given. smiles On holliday with my gal pals I know we can get a bit retarded too. That is part of the fun of being away from family, and being with your mates, or gal pals. shrugs Gwyn

Gwynvyd -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 2:56:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent P.P.S Gwyn, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland constitute Britain and the British. I know the geography... ( Hell I know the History better then my love does... ) what the heart of the question is.. what is more proper.. and what is the differance socialy in calling a person English or British? I know if you are from "The Isles" you would be concidered a Briton.. or even the mainland. To be English you would naturaly have to be from England. My sweetie is from Hemel Hempstead. Gwyn

Pernicious -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 3:01:54 PM)
When I watch the Olympics I’m British. When I watch the world cup I’m English.

NorthernGent -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 3:29:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent P.P.S Gwyn, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland constitute Britain and the British. I know the geography... ( Hell I know the History better then my love does... ) what the heart of the question is.. what is more proper.. and what is the differance socialy in calling a person English or British? I know if you are from "The Isles" you would be concidered a Briton.. or even the mainland. To be English you would naturaly have to be from England. My sweetie is from Hemel Hempstead. Gwyn Ahhh I see, apologies for underestimating you. There was a debate going on not so long ago about Britishness, but it petered out due to a lack of interest......no one seemed to care, which tells a story in itself. If you're aiming to please, my advice is not to use the term British. The Americans use the term Brits far more than we do: I reckon most of us see ourselves as either English, Scottish or Welsh, with the exception of the Northern Irish who are British for political reasons. The English have suffered from a crisis of identity since WW2. The end of the empire was a problem, you can see it in some of the posts on this thread: the post imperial malaise...the sense that the best days are behind us. Furthermore, we've been reluctant to glory in imperialism, so as a nation we've been trying to find ourselves and our self-confidence for 50 years. I think in recent years there's been an explosion of self-confidence and it's reflected in an increased attachment to Englishness: we're starting to find our feet again after two crippling world wars and a loss of trading routes. In fairness, part of this is due to hanging on to the coat-tails of the Americans; although an unequal relationship, it has enabled us to maintain a presence on the world stage, and the status as Europe's main trading partner with the US. There's method in the madness, I suppose. In sum, I'd guess 95% of people class themselves as English, Welsh or Scottish...rather than British. As an example, the English national anthem is also the British anthem. For the first time in history, there is serious debate around changing our national anthem to one that is a) English only and b) is rooted in the modern world i.e. minus the gods, kings and other mythical creatures from a bygone age.

Politesub53 -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 3:55:25 PM)
Gwyn, born in England works for me, a birthday on St Georges day also helps. We have the absurd situation now that English MPs dont get to vote on certain things pertaining to Scotland, yet Scottish MPs can vote on everything pertaining to England. It seems daft to me.

Politesub53 -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 4:00:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pernicious When I watch the Olympics I’m British. When I watch the world cup I’m English. What will you do when the European Championships are on next summer.... i will be gardening.... [8D]

LadyEllen -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 4:07:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 We have the absurd situation now that English MPs dont get to vote on certain things pertaining to Scotland, yet Scottish MPs can vote on everything pertaining to England. It seems daft to me. For the Labour party it makes perfect sense though - they know very well that without the reliable Scottish Labour vote, they wouldnt be able to get a majority in the UK parliament. Something also realised by the Tories who are today promising to end the situation, since it would give them a far greater influence over English matters than the Labour party has. Lets get this all resolved at the next possible opportunity. Lets give the whole of the UK a vote on Scottish devolution - Alex Salmond might just find out how welcome he is. And lets have proportional representation, so that we can end the cynical manipulations of the political parties and instead have something approaching democracy. E

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