RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........

RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (Full Version)

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Gwynvyd -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 4:15:23 PM)
Thank you. That summed it up nicely.... I wanted to know the social reasons. I usualy use the term English when refering to him unless he has cheesed me off.. then he is a fucking Brit. LOL Just like he calls me a Yank. But it is all good. I personaly ( not that it matters one fig mind you ) think that it will be a sad day when and if the English switch from having both Parliment, and Royalty. Too much heritage and history there. But that is just my thoughts on it. Gwyn, who makes Elizabethan gowns, knows that a cookie here in the states is really a biscut there... and always has a pot on.. just in case of visitors ( and for herself )

Gwynvyd -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 4:27:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Gwyn, born in England works for me, a birthday on St Georges day also helps. We have the absurd situation now that English MPs dont get to vote on certain things pertaining to Scotland, yet Scottish MPs can vote on everything pertaining to England. It seems daft to me. Ahh the West Lothain Question... I was reading about that.. that does seem a bit absurd.. The Welsh do always cover thier asses dont they. (the name Gwynvyd is Welsh BTW.. LOL) At least with the Scottish Parliament Act of 2004 it evened it out a bit and they lost 14 seats. Gwyn

Politesub53 -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 4:31:10 PM)
Lady Ellen i agree proportional representations seems the fairest way forward. Although how would you be sure you got a local MP who would represent your interests. What would happen in the traditional strongholds in such cases ?

NorthernGent -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 4:33:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd Thank you. No worries. quote: ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd I personaly ( not that it matters one fig mind you ) think that it will be a sad day when and if the English switch from having both Parliment, and Royalty. Too much heritage and history there. But that is just my thoughts on it. Well, it's fair to say that I'm 100% convinced on the appropriate path when it comes to the monarchy. We once had a thread on this topic that went a good 25 pages and we go absolutely nowhere near an agreement. quote: ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd Gwyn, who makes Elizabethan gowns You must have an interest in the Elizabethan period, then? quote: ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd and always has a pot on.. just in case of visitors ( and for herself ) Fail to prepare, prepare to fail!

Gwynvyd -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 4:42:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 We have the absurd situation now that English MPs dont get to vote on certain things pertaining to Scotland, yet Scottish MPs can vote on everything pertaining to England. It seems daft to me. For the Labour party it makes perfect sense though - they know very well that without the reliable Scottish Labour vote, they wouldnt be able to get a majority in the UK parliament. Something also realised by the Tories who are today promising to end the situation, since it would give them a far greater influence over English matters than the Labour party has. Lets get this all resolved at the next possible opportunity. Lets give the whole of the UK a vote on Scottish devolution - Alex Salmond might just find out how welcome he is. And lets have proportional representation, so that we can end the cynical manipulations of the political parties and instead have something approaching democracy. E The politics over there are sooo much more complicated then ours here.. woof. We have 2 parties.. with a couple others that basicaly amount to nothing.. and you only join if you want to prove a point.. or are pissed at the 2 main ones. Our issues are simplistic comparitively.. we do not have groups of people who wish to seperate off and wish to be ruled seperately.. We long ago subdued the "Native" population.. and the nutters in Texas dont count. Though we do fear the tyrant in charge will not give over the helm next year... at least I do.... Gwyn, Who is having a V for Vendetta movie night on Nov. 5th. smiles

Gwynvyd -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 4:59:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd Thank you. No worries. quote: ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd I personaly ( not that it matters one fig mind you ) think that it will be a sad day when and if the English switch from having both Parliment, and Royalty. Too much heritage and history there. But that is just my thoughts on it. Well, it's fair to say that I'm 100% convinced on the appropriate path when it comes to the monarchy. We once had a thread on this topic that went a good 25 pages and we go absolutely nowhere near an agreement. quote: ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd Gwyn, who makes Elizabethan gowns You must have an interest in the Elizabethan period, then? quote: ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd and always has a pot on.. just in case of visitors ( and for herself ) Fail to prepare, prepare to fail! I know Rael and I have our varying thoughts on it.... but we are both fairly traditionalists... so it works. I have in depth studied Elizabethan England, and Napoleonic France. ( as well as others... but those are two of my historical focal points ) My love of the Elizabethan period came from reading about Bess of Hardwick... and seeing the book on the Hardwick Hall Treasures. ( all textiles ) I ran with it from there. I liked her and Queen Elizabeths ballsiness in such a time of upheaval and uncertainty. In sewing I said for 13 years I would never undertake an Elizabethan gown... LOL yeah that ship sailed once I saw how beautiful they were up close and personal. I curently have 2 myself.. and I am making 2 more currently. Though I have lost so much weight I have to recut my bodice and corset I had already finished. Good but damn it they were totaly done. Gwyn

seeksfemslave -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/28/2007 5:00:47 PM)
Lets tell the Scots to get ther grubby hands out of our pockets and eff off. and the the Welsh and the Irish. Scroungers the lot of 'em. If we had a decent National Anthem I would now burst in to to song.lol Sod it if it werent for my bad back I would be off to the Ricoh Stadium to start a punch up wherever the away team came from. The fookas. Manchester Liverpool London I would die happy having kicked their arse The arrogant twits As or Lillibet and Charles.....cor blimey what a pair.

LadyEllen -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/29/2007 3:43:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Lady Ellen i agree proportional representations seems the fairest way forward. Although how would you be sure you got a local MP who would represent your interests. What would happen in the traditional strongholds in such cases ? Lets be clear on the first point - we dont get local MPs very often anyway. Most often, theyre shipped in as candidates by local parties, from wherever theyre available - usually somewhere in the region, but rarely from the area they might come to represent. On the second point - our elected MPs rarely represent our interests either, but represent party interests back to us, because as with all careers one has to stay on side with the boss to get ahead. The effect of PR should be to break the power of the two main parties - releasing their candidates from the stranglehold which the party hierarchy has over them, and releasing us from the stranglehold which they have over us. Yes - I would expect in some areas that we will still have (for a time at least) the automatic red or blue vote, ("because our family always voted that way"), from many, but the opportunity to vote according to personal views for a candidate who represents a certain voter and has a chance of getting somewhere, will soon erode that. And as a byproduct, we could expect far higher participation than now, and no more governments elected for five years on a minority of the electorate. What I would expect, after a settling down period, would be to find a house of commons far more diverse and representative - two stated aims of our system. I'd expect to see representatives of every possible political philosophy and many religions too - radical Islamic parties even. And yes, we'd undoubtedly also have BNP representatives in there. We'd likely still see the bulk of the members coming from traditional parties of course, but their ability to form governments in their own right would be ended, and cooperation - whereby more voices are taken into account - would be the order of the day. Of course though, some will argue against PR on these very grounds. For some unfathomable reason, they are afraid of allowing the radicals into parliament - which indicates to me that they feel unable to answer them in debate - which is interesting at the least. Equally, they claim that coalition governments are weak (1940 to 1945 suggests otherwise) because they require compromise - aka representation of the majority. Their arguments however are completely dismissable when one looks at the real bases - petty party interests which would be damaged should the people have a choice and democracy be installed. E

Politesub53 -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/29/2007 3:53:09 AM)
While i agree totally with your post, it still doesnt answer the question. Although a Labour MP may be bused into a safe seat, the electorate can still go and see him once he is in office. Many dont actually care about Labour policies as they always have, and will, vote Labour. ( Same for many Conservatives ) To try and be clearer, how would You suggest they select a local ( Figuratively ) MP after polling day ? Very nice point about minorities then having a say in the commons, Its long overdue in my opinion.

seeksfemslave -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/29/2007 4:02:37 AM)
To use 1940/45 as an example of the benefits of coalition is a bit off LadyE. At that time I believe there was one overriding purpose. I see no solution to centralised control of the body politic other then the ability to force referenda if a sufficient quota can be garnered. A limit on the amount of legislation in any one session. No parliamentarians without say at least 10 years experience of other employment and at least 35 years old. A limit on the number of members from any one employment sector be it Law, Trade Union or Landed interest. Some form of consultation with representatives of the masses, no idea where they are tho, before legislation is passed that is going to affect their lives. ie Law /Order Asylum Immigration Employment policy things like that. adding: a limit on the amount of time any individual can spend in Parliament. Then we will see if they really are public servants or careerists operating at enormous public expense. If the people ever speak I bet they make just as big a mess as what we have now.

LadyEllen -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/29/2007 4:22:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 While i agree totally with your post, it still doesnt answer the question. Although a Labour MP may be bused into a safe seat, the electorate can still go and see him once he is in office. Many dont actually care about Labour policies as they always have, and will, vote Labour. ( Same for many Conservatives ) To try and be clearer, how would You suggest they select a local ( Figuratively ) MP after polling day ? Very nice point about minorities then having a say in the commons, Its long overdue in my opinion. You see though, I believe the monopolies of the red and blue will diminish under PR as I said - it will take time, but when its realised that a vote is worth something and there are viable alternatives available, things will change. There will always be the core vote (based on the sound foundation of blind loyalty to which we have both alluded) but I would guess it will be greatly reduced where it is present today. For Labour seats for instance, some might choose "Socialist" or "Communist" rather than choose to remain in one large red block. Same applies for the Tories, where UKIP and maybe even BNP might pick up votes. The way PR would work exactly on a national basis would have to be worked out. But a basic idea would be to take say three constituencies and each party have a candidate in each, as now. One tallies up the votes for each party across the three constituencies and then allocates seats according to the proportion of votes (and second choices) for each party. It would be for the parties to state which of their candidates gets primacy in the allocation process - and equally for the parties to choose their candidates from wherever, should they feel that a local choice isnt important to local voters - and stand or fall on that decision, as now. Though given the very different nature of things under the new method, I tend to think they would be more apt to choose locally. Now obviously those elected may not be local as in the current understanding of local according to constituencies - but given we are putting together three neighbouring constituencies, they will still be local in every meaningful way - they must represent the three former constituency areas after all, as they rely on the votes from all three. Equally, this process would still produce three members in the house and given that each constituency already provides an MP surgery service (ie the facilities already exist) there should not be any reason why one should not be able to see a local representative within one's own former constituency - he/she may not be from the party you chose, but then that isnt any different to now. E

LadyEllen -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/29/2007 4:30:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave To use 1940/45 as an example of the benefits of coalition is a bit off LadyE. At that time I believe there was one overriding purpose. I see no solution to centralised control of the body politic other then the ability to force referenda if a sufficient quota can be garnered. A limit on the amount of legislation in any one session. No parliamentarians without say at least 10 years experience of other employment and at least 35 years old. A limit on the number of members from any one employment sector be it Law, Trade Union or Landed interest. Some form of consultation with representatives of the masses, no idea where they are tho, before legislation is passed that is going to affect their lives. ie Law /Order Asylum Immigration Employment policy things like that. adding: a limit on the amount of time any individual can spend in Parliament. Then we will see if they really are public servants or careerists operating at enormous public expense. If the people ever speak I bet they make just as big a mess as what we have now. There is one overriding purpose now Seeks - to make our country better for all. I believe PR is an essential building block to achieving that by giving everyone a voice, and an interest in using that voice. Imagine if you will, the seething masses of people disaffected by the nanny state and the PC brigade, having a voice wherewith to say "stop!". That wont happen now, when anyone not "on message" has no hope of getting anywhere in politics - but under PR one could. Forget referenda - no government under the present situation would hold any such thing unless they were sure to win it (and then there'd be little point). What possible interest would Labour have in a referendum over the new EU arrangements for instance? If they lose it, they fall. Under PR, we get representatives - and a government more than likely, that takes account of public feeling - imagine that! Agreed on your other points apart from your final one. The difference, should we make a mess of it, will be that it will be our mess, not one imposed on us. E

meatcleaver -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/29/2007 6:07:19 AM)
LE. You don't think for one moment that the politicians want to introduce REAL democracy into the political arena. How can they sell themselves to the highest bidder if they have to be held accountable to the electrate. Hell, they've probably been bought and sold so often they probably aren't sure who their masters are anymore and just do what money people tells them to do.

joanus -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/29/2007 6:29:35 AM)
I have to agree the Brits aren't so bad, and it sound more like she was talking about the Americans. Now America tourists are reall assholes I mean if your going to travel to a foreign counrty dont whine, who chose to go there now like oit or lump it. Reminds me of a funny story. So I was in Tokyo (my home town) And this lost group of Americans where walking around bitching about how noone spoke english (most of them due they just didn't want to deal with whiny tourists) and one of them spotted me. I'm indistinguishable from a born and rasied American even though I'm half Japanese, so this guy come right up to me and yell in my face. "Thank God we finally found some one in this God awfull hole who speaks english." This pissed me off, never insult my home town or country. "Can you tell us how to get to ..... we've been lost for hours." I looked him right in the eye and said "Wakalimasen." Which basicly means; I dont understand. "ENGLISH! DOESN'T ANY ONE SPEAK ENGLISH HERE?"He screamed at me, to which I replied; "Watashi wa eigo ga wakalimasen." Which mean I don't understand english. They all moaned and left, once out of sight I and the people who had been watching started cracking up. The lesson here is if your not in America or some other country whos native language is english don't expect to find many people who speak english.

seeksfemslave -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/29/2007 7:08:29 AM)
quote: LadyE Forget referenda - no government under the present situation would hold any such thing unless they were sure to win it (and then there'd be little point). thats is why I said this quote: to force referenda if a sufficient quota can be garnered. It should not be within the existing regime's remit to decide whether or not a referendum is called. quote: LadyE There is one overriding purpose now Seeks - to make our country better for all. Imprecise and unachievable. It is obvious to me that many will have to be allowed to fail as a consequence of there own waywardness and lack of foresight. Otherwise there is no limit to what state functionaries will find on which money can be spent.

meatcleaver -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/29/2007 7:37:33 AM)
The idea is that Parliament should hold the government to account and decide on behalf of the people but Parliament has made itself a surplus to requirement by being in the pocket of the government, therefore it is up to the people to break the concensus between the people and the goverment and demand reform. I stopped voting twenty years ago because it was quite obvious Parliament was not fullfilling its roll and I decided to demonstrate and back extra-parliamentary opposition groups.

philosophy -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/29/2007 8:29:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd (the name Gwynvyd is Welsh BTW.. LOL) ....not to be picky or anything....there is no 'v' in Welsh. The nearest sound to it is 'f', which is pronounced broadly the same as the English 'v'. For instance, the Welsh word for small (feminine) is pronounced 'vack' (more or less), but is spelled 'fach'. Oh, and if you want to make the English 'f' sound you need the Welsh 'ff'. A famous Welsh language campaigner, born in England, changed his name to Ffred Ffrancis in order to make his name Welsh. There are a number of instances where double letters in Welsh have distinct sounds; ff, dd, ll are good examples. pob lwc

TheMsScarlet -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/29/2007 8:41:42 AM)
OMG - I thought I was the only one cruel enough to do this! Vevey rail station in Switzerland has a long underground tunnel that you walk along until you find the slope up to your platform. I could hear them even before I entered the tunnel "Where the hell is the train for Paris? You'd think there'd be signs here, God damn armpit of a country etc, etc, " They were a walking stereotype, from her cloth souwester to his raincoat and plaid pants. They saw me, the only person there, and homed in on me"You, you there. Girl. Where's the train for Paris?" This awful, overbearing man yelled into my face. I gave the classic Gaelic shrug and replied "Je suis navre Monsiuer, je ne connais pas." (I'm sorry sir, I don't know) "Paris!" he yelled louder. "Paris" "Je ne comprend pas Monsieur, je suis desolet." - (I don't understand, I'm very sorry.) Honest to God I was standing under the biggest sign you've ever seen saying Paris, Platform whatever it was in 3 languages. Needless to say he went off ranting about God damn foreigners, why can't someone in this God forsaken country speak English". I suspect, if he'd come up to me politely, failed to call me "girl" and just been nicer I'd have been delighted to point out the way to the train. But then I have also suffered the reverse end of the "if we speak louder they'll understand". When my Swiss/French was incomplete I worked in a small cafe in a local village in Switzerland. A woman came in one day and asked for a "tranche" of something. My brain went numb and my intelligence ran away and hid. I asked her politely, in French, to repeat herself as I had not understood her, and she shouted, loudly, as though I was deaf. A sweet old ex-pat tugged my sleeve and pointed out that a tranche was a slice, for which I was very grateful. quote: ORIGINAL: joanus I have to agree the Brits aren't so bad, and it sound more like she was talking about the Americans. Now America tourists are reall assholes I mean if your going to travel to a foreign counrty dont whine, who chose to go there now like oit or lump it. Reminds me of a funny story. So I was in Tokyo (my home town) And this lost group of Americans where walking around bitching about how noone spoke english (most of them due they just didn't want to deal with whiny tourists) and one of them spotted me. I'm indistinguishable from a born and rasied American even though I'm half Japanese, so this guy come right up to me and yell in my face. "Thank God we finally found some one in this God awfull hole who speaks english." This pissed me off, never insult my home town or country. "Can you tell us how to get to ..... we've been lost for hours." I looked him right in the eye and said "Wakalimasen." Which basicly means; I dont understand. "ENGLISH! DOESN'T ANY ONE SPEAK ENGLISH HERE?"He screamed at me, to which I replied; "Watashi wa eigo ga wakalimasen." Which mean I don't understand english. They all moaned and left, once out of sight I and the people who had been watching started cracking up. The lesson here is if your not in America or some other country whos native language is english don't expect to find many people who speak english.

TheMsScarlet -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/29/2007 8:47:33 AM)
You mean like you did? Shunning the social pressures of a country based on class, rejecting the education system for your children. Pot, this is kettle, can I get a colour check, over? As a friend of mine would say. I came back to this country because my mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer, since then my father has also become ill. Unlike you I decided to stick around and help my parents as they suffer the blows of the British (lack of) pension scheme, run the gauntlet of new taxes and dodge the post code lottery of the NHS. I already have 2 other passports. One for the US, one for South Africa - although I've chosen to renew neither lately. I used to date a Shetlander who complained bitterly that when he came to London he joined the Shetland Society in London, where people from the islands used to meet. He hated it. Why? Because all they ever did was moan about how much better it was back home. Something I have never done about Britain. But hey, if you like the place so much, why don't you come back and live here? As for fucking off and leaving you to it - dream on honey. Who knows, I might even move to Holland.

joanus -> RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ (10/29/2007 8:49:02 AM)
It is fun to play Hob with stupid people's tiny brains.

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