quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

greetings rrafe,

then she either needs to find a dominant who is willing to provide the kind of submission that she thinks submission is (which in my humble opinion is not really subission at all)...or accept the fact that submission does NOT always fit what we want submission to be, and be open enough to a different situation to not try and manipulate it into the kind of situation she wants. obviously discussing problems, desires, issues of compatibility, etc. come into play as well...again, it's not a clear-cut issue of "get over it or leave." there may be a way to compromise; maybe the dominant can provide for whatever desire the submissive is not getting and is trying to control the situation over, or maybe not.

for example, i need a lot of physical affection. he is not one for giving physical affection hardly at all. in the beginning of the relationship i caught myself trying to manipulate the situation so that i could fulfill that need, stopped myself, and expressed that need to him. i've come to accept that being without physical affection to a certain degree is part and parcel of being his slave; because he knows i enjoy it and he doesn't mind it from time to time, every now and then he will put a bit of effort into being more affectionate than he might otherwise be. i'm no longer trying to control the situation to fit what i want because i have come to the realization that being his slave doesn't include controlling the situation to fulfill all of my needs. i'm not sure if that really explains it very well, but i hope that answers your question.

respectfully,
annabelle.

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ORIGINAL: RRafe
Why do you think this sort of thing happens?
What could possibly cause someone who claims submission,to want such control over the one he or she supposedly wishes to surrender to?

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe
Why do you think this sort of thing happens?
What could possibly cause someone who claims submission,to want such control over the one he or she supposedly wishes to surrender to?

I find the question rather vague which makes it difficult to answer. Can you expand on the thought or give an example? 

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Why do you think this sort of thing happens?

What could possibly cause someone who claims submission,to want such control over the one he or she supposedly wishes to surrender to?

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

I think, esentially, everyone involved in a relationship wants the other person to be happy. The Dom backs away from Domming because he feels / sees / hears the sub being unhappy about something. A smart Dom knows when to tuck it away and lay low.

The sub, sensing his handing over of authority, takes the lead role in whatever is going on and thinks that she is submitting because her Dom is allowing it to happen. The Dom, who is enamored of his sub, maybe loves her (if that's what the dynamic is), feels that she is happier in this role and so gives her more control than she had previously. She still thinks she is submitting, even with this greater amount of control, because her Dom is allowing it to happen.

Eventually the Dom will put a stop to it, realizing she's out of his control. She throws a tantrum, and to keep the peace, he allows her more control than she had at the start. She still gets to call herself a sub, still calls him her Dom, but the dynamic has shifted its shape and structure.

Doesn't happen this way all the time, I know, but it's one scenario.

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ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Why do you think this sort of thing happens?

What could possibly cause someone who claims submission,to want such control over the one he or she supposedly wishes to surrender to?

Every time the Dom gives the sub the ability to make a choice which affects them both, he gives her a bit more control.  Realistically, it's entirely unavoidable for a sub to give up all control and decision-making, even in TPE M/s.  However, this does not negate that the decision making on the sub's part is control, and that more of it is more control for her.  Even if it's something small, it's a bit more influence she has that the Dom doesn't.  Which, again, isn't necessarily bad, though it is an area she rules, not him.

If a Dom tells his sub to make dinner, she has decisions to make.  What to make, being a big one; to a lesser degree, how it'll be prepared, what will be used in the process.. each decision in this sort of progression becoming increasingly trivial.  But if the sub is to make dinner every night, she controls what the Dom eats.  (Yes, yes, I know that the Dom "can" tell her to make something, it's just that, in this story, he isn't.  But, by the same argument, isn't the sub able to walk away from the Dom at any time?  To accept that being "able" to avoid control as there being no control is to equate all consentual relationships to vanilla.)

There's one mitigating argument I can see.  A sub who earnestly stops and considers at every decision, "How would he want this done?", working to the best of her ability to interept his will as opposed to her own, could p..

I have to cut it off here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meticulousgirl

trust or lack there of....

insecurities, fears there's a multitude of things....all can be worked out 99% of the time through open communication and not pushing someone into something that they just aren't ready for (yes that's coming from a slave) but, in all honesty i know that my Owner as well as many Doms on this site would agree with me 100%.  Submission and slavery both come in time, each has his or her own time clock and if you push to far, that clock just might break and you may loose that possession before you know what happened.

It took me years to get comfortable enough in my own skin as my Owners slave to say yes i want you to have it all , i want you to take the control etc....the fears that we keep inside sometimes are enough to hold us back from ever moving past the current stage....communicate and above all else at least try to understand if you are ever in that situation with a sub or slave.  Many just think it's an easy street all the time but in all honesty it's really not, we learn to hold things in, we learn to throw things off of our shoulders and not discuss them even if there is an "open communication" setup in all honesty it's not always as easy as you may believe it to be. 

~meticulous~

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Why do you think this sort of thing happens?

What could possibly cause someone who claims submission,to want such control over the one he or she supposedly wishes to surrender to?

I notice this a lot, and think about this a lot.
Many submissives are only submissive to what they want to submit TOO.
Also, there are many submissives that have the upper hand in D/s relationships.

The reason I think it happens a lot, is because many Dominants go along with it.
It is not easy to deal with this situation, and often people don't want to walk away.
I think there are more Tops around here than Dominants anyway...
but that is another story!

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

What could possibly cause someone who claims submission,to want such control over the one he or she supposedly wishes to surrender to?

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ORIGINAL: applecandy

May I bring up a point that (I believe) hasn't been covered?

Not all subs are up to the task of submitting completely to someone else. There are many different levels of submission, and it really depends on how you define it. The definition I see most used in this thread tends to run more towards the slave side - not entirely, but leaning in that direction more than, say, a less all-encompassing relationship.

I think that one thing most Doms forget is that the sub DOES have ultimate power - the power to walk away when boundaries are crossed. The important thing to hammer out is where the real boundaries lie, and that's where the confusion sets in.

As a switch, I've done both sides of this (granted, not with vast amounts of experience, but very seriously when done). As a sub, I am more than willing to let my Dom push my boundaries, as long as they are fully aware of what they are when we start. They will know my hard limits, and any pushing of those should be done with prior discussion - whether it be on an individual scene basis, or at the outset of a relationship. But pushing individual boundaries is what being in the scene is all about - growing and changing, and finding your place.

I think that the vast majority of the subs that play cards like that aren't necessarily being shifty or dishonest - they either don't know, or they're not secure enough in themselves to let things go that far - which isn't necessarily a BAD thing. It's just not what you guys are seeking. To submit fully to someone else means having control of one's self first - and that's not nearly common enough in this community.

quote:


Why do you think this sort of thing happens?

What could possibly cause someone who claims submission,to want such control over the one he or she supposedly wishes to surrender to?