Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant"


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant" Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant&q... - 10/31/2007 3:16:51 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		What often happens when good questions like this one are asked is that the thread sort of works itself to a conclusion as I’m beginning to see here as a late comer who has read through the posts.

A sub who is attempting to get a Dom to dominate more wants more attention. She feels that he doesn’t care enough about her. Maybe she doesn’t excite him to a degree where he would want to dominate her at a higher level and she knows this. So she starts to say he could do this and that to her if he wants. It is the time old question of how she can make him want her more.

I guarantee you that in relationships where both desire each other tremendously, the exactly right amount of domination is going to be found.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant&q... - 10/31/2007 4:22:09 AM   
tricia


Posts: 231
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Is it possible that a lot of submissives view their own submission as something that can be turned on and off?
 
While I don’t have a definitive answer, this is something I thought of when I first read the OP.
 
I know, at times, the overwhelming theme on the message boards is how strong willed, independent, aggressive women are outside of their relationships.  They view themselves as equals to their dominants, masters, owners.  I’m not saying there is anything wrong with this – but could it be possible that these personality traits or this frame of mind does spill over into their relationships and ultimately lead  to the s type having more control than one would expect in this type of relationship.

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant&q... - 10/31/2007 5:04:04 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		FAST REPLY
I am in control…..of myself.  If I have the desire to surrender authority to the dominant, then I must conduct myself in a manner which he/she finds pleasing.
That willingness is merely the first step.  There are many factors from both dominant and submissive which affect how the relationship develops (or not).   
As a dominant, if you wish to have the authority then you need to be willing to accept the responsibility that goes with it.  As a submissive, if you wish to cede to another’s control then you must be willing to accept the consequences of your placement of trust. 
We all started somewhere and for most of us it has been a work in progress.
On the face of it, it is rather simple; seek a partner who is able to manage the control you are willing to take on as a dominant or to give up as a submissive.


_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to tricia)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant&q... - 10/31/2007 5:20:59 AM   
Cyntilating


Posts: 581
Joined: 6/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Why do you think this sort of thing happens?


Because the Dominant allows it to happen.  Nature abhors a vacuum, including a lack of control.

quote:


What could possibly cause someone who claims submission,to want such control over the one he or she supposedly wishes to surrender to?


There are several potential causes I can think of, and as people vary considerably, there are probably many other causes that I can't think of.
 
1.  Filling a control void.  See above.
 
2.  Wanting to feel overpowered.
 
3.  Fear of surrender (that fantasy vs. reality thing again).
 
4.  Fear of surrender (wrong partner).
 
5.  An underdeveloped relationship (ie: the cart has been put before the horse).
 
John


I agree. Haste, and a lack of foresight lead to bad situations.

A dominant not being willing to enforce personal boundaries for fear of loss can lead to losing the upper hand when tested.

Should we be willing to walk away-rather than be stepped on?

 
Actually...
As the submissive, I would rather "walk away" than create a ( or be in a ) power struggle.
where is the use in that?
 
I can be patient and obedient..and will be.
I can give as much( or as little) as I am asked or commanded to give.
I will remain by your side, supportive and tolerant of all adjustments in our lives. 
 
but if you want my submission you must present me with your dominance.
  ( wish I could think of a different term than "present"  ,but for now I will leave it..and hope you understand its intent. )
 
its not a demand on my part or about being smartassed or bratty.  It just IS..  my submission( giving over my control to your authority and ability to have control )  is directly reactive/responsive to your level and degree of being in control ( dominance) ..
 
I do not want to get into a game.  It is not a competition or tit-for-tat..manipulation is counterproductive and seriously damaging to a Ms or Ds relationship...... for me, it is a genuine response/reaction and its either there or it isn't.. 
 
You can feel my submission or you can have my obedience and compliance...they are intertwined often  but they are not the same.   imo.
 
What I won't give you is a reason to doubt what really IS. 
because your dominance is just as much in response and porportioned to my giving you my will, control and submission.
The dynamic ( power-exchange)  is either there or it isn't.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant&q... - 10/31/2007 5:21:21 AM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		My take on this vague question you ask, and don't want to elaborate on, is that it's none of my business what works for someone elses relationship. If he likes to be a marshmallow Dom and let her run circles around him, if they are happy, who cares? Then again, it might just appear that way from the outside. Who can really know?

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant&q... - 10/31/2007 5:29:43 AM   
BloodLuna


Posts: 403
Joined: 10/28/2007
Status: offline 		Fast reply (I am afraid I didn't have time to read alot of the reponses)

As a 99.99% dominant female who happens to have found the one man who can speak volumes to the .01% of her submissive side, I find that I struggle on a constant basis with the fear of letting go of control.  IMHO that is that struggle that perhaps drives many submissives, particularly those with little experience, to manipulate or "top from the bottom".  As a dominant I had forgotten over the years how the basic feeling of surrendering your control to another person could trigger feeling of fear at a loss of control over one's life - even when that very loss of control is what you desire.  Fear is the basic trigger of all other negative emotions: jealousy, anger, manipulation . . . it stems from fear and the emotional and physical reactions our minds and bodies experience in response to the fear. 

I personally experience a fear of letting go, of loosing my dominant side when my submissive side comes out.  I often balk at simple things like when he chooses my clothing or tells me I cannot buy something for myself or that the can of cola I want to have isn't healthy for the baby (we're expecting) As an experienced Domme I have an emotional reaction to those little parts of sacrifice of control.  However, I still maintain complete control over those that submit to me.  I cannot imagine the difficulty that a total submissive must face, especially one who is just coming into the lifestyle, who after making a commitment to submit, gives up ALL of their control and has even greater depths of fear to battle.  These fears are often taught to us from the cradle and enforced by a society that expects perfect autonomous independence.  The success is when we can over come our fears and give deeply of ourselves. 

Lady Luna

_____________________________

"Old goths never die, they just need less makeup"



(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant&q... - 10/31/2007 5:57:27 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline 		I think John nailed this one. Submission can't exist in a vacuum. Submitting is a response to being dominated. Being/feeling over powered ranks pretty high on the list for most submissive people from what I have seen over the years, myself included.

I need a man who can keep the upper hand on me. I won't play submissive to a figure head I know I can control.. A man can either exert his power(authority, control, influence) on me and bring/keep me inline with his desires or he can't. I don't fall for the blame/shame game. If *I* can consisently manipulate you, cajole you, push you etc. into doing what I want when you don't want too, I am the dominant partner in the dynamic. So better to clear the air on that early vs me playing a role that will just make me miserable. I'm very straight forward about this. When I met R I was clear on what I was looking for, I would not compromise on what I wanted. I wanted a man who lived his life on his terms and could/would demand/force/make sure I lived my life on his terms. The type of man not concerned with attempts at manipulation because they don't work. This situtation has worked for us closing in on a decade, now includes marriage and him adopting my kiddo. People need to take the time to figure out what they want and they need to stop compromising on it. I'd rather be alone than not have the type of dynamic I need.

I'll add I am a selfish control freak, I needed someone who was more of a control freak and more selfish to overcome that in me. I'm not dominant though, I don't experience happinss in being control, I loathe it but I will seize power in a relationshoip where my partner is not stronger than I am.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Why do you think this sort of thing happens?


Because the Dominant allows it to happen.  Nature abhors a vacuum, including a lack of control.

quote:


What could possibly cause someone who claims submission,to want such control over the one he or she supposedly wishes to surrender to?


There are several potential causes I can think of, and as people vary considerably, there are probably many other causes that I can't think of.
 
1.  Filling a control void.  See above.
 
2.  Wanting to feel overpowered.
 
3.  Fear of surrender (that fantasy vs. reality thing again).
 
4.  Fear of surrender (wrong partner).
 
5.  An underdeveloped relationship (ie: the cart has been put before the horse).
 
John


_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant&q... - 10/31/2007 6:15:13 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyntilating




Actually...
As the submissive, I would rather "walk away" than create a ( or be in a ) power struggle.
where is the use in that?
 
I can be patient and obedient..and will be.
I can give as much( or as little) as I am asked or commanded to give.
I will remain by your side, supportive and tolerant of all adjustments in our lives. 
 
but if you want my submission you must present me with your dominance.
  ( wish I could think of a different term than "present"  ,but for now I will leave it..and hope you understand its intent. )
 
its not a demand on my part or about being smartassed or bratty.  It just IS..  my submission( giving over my control to your authority and ability to have control )  is directly reactive/responsive to your level and degree of being in control ( dominance) ..
 
I do not want to get into a game.  It is not a competition or tit-for-tat..manipulation is counterproductive and seriously damaging to a Ms or Ds relationship...... for me, it is a genuine response/reaction and its either there or it isn't.. 
 
You can feel my submission or you can have my obedience and compliance...they are intertwined often  but they are not the same.   imo.
 
What I won't give you is a reason to doubt what really IS. 
because your dominance is just as much in response and porportioned to my giving you my will, control and submission.
The dynamic ( power-exchange)  is either there or it isn't.
 
 
 
 


Exactly. A metaphor that's used a lot is that D/s is a dance, somebody has to lead. If he's not going to lead, then I will be forced to. So telling me he wants to dance, then just standing still on the dance floor automatically puts me in the lead. Whining that I'm not magically following a lead he isn't giving me makes me less inclined to submit.

If you don't want to dance, or have two left feet and refuse to take lessons to change that, then don't expect it to be the kind of dancing you see the professionals do. You want that level of it, you have to work at it.

There's more to being a dominant than free coffee and blowjobs.

(in reply to Cyntilating)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant&q... - 10/31/2007 7:03:50 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		ok....Fast Replying to several posts....here i go....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercurialdame

I think that subs control everything that he wishes them to have control of at the time.
If he wants control, he'll take it. Other than that, he enjoys our play for title games. That i always seem to lose. ? go figure? Its all a game. Its for fun.
<snip>
There maybe only one Dominant in your relationship, but there are two people.
Of equal import.

my problem with your post may be your nouns and pronouns...perhaps in your relationship its a play for title games, but in my life, if "submissive" or "slave" and "Dominant" or "Master/Owner" are just titles we play games with thats just for fun...it's not a relationship...it just is, and there happens to be words already established that go along with what is....
and absolutely....in a relationship between a Dominant and a submissive, they are equally important...they are different roles, but equally important....imagine how little the pyramids would be, if they would be at all if the slaves had not existed....but the slaves would have not built them had they not been driven by their Masters...not the same as a lifestyle Master and slave, i know...but it wasn't all for naught...

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Every time the Dom gives the sub the ability to make a choice which affects them both, he gives her a bit more control.  Realistically, it's entirely unavoidable for a sub to give up all control and decision-making, even in TPE M/s. 
<snip>
There's one mitigating argument I can see.  A sub who earnestly stops and considers at every decision, "How would he want this done?", working to the best of her ability to interept his will as opposed to her own, could p..

is that so hard to conceptualize?  i am talking to a Dominant that i match up with very well and even without an defined, established relationship...i am already thinking i that thought pattern...not because he ordered me to...though he did bring it up...put a mirror in front of my face and said that every thing you do reflects me...and it does....even without that defined, established relationship...and he did not order me to, because he did not need to...once he brought it up, it was an "oh shit" moment...and i began correcting it imediately....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Squeakers

    My personal feeling is, in order to control another person or to give control to another person you must have mastered control over yourself.   
<snip>
Knowing that I have control over my own actions, lessens my fear of turning control over to him.    There was a time in my life when I did not have control over my own actions, and I sincerely found myself trying to control him simply out of fear that if he asked me to do something that I was sincerely afraid to do or went against my better judgement, I'd be forced to do so simply because I lacked the control to say, "Umm no I am not doing that."     I think for me, the fact that I lacked control over me, really caused so much fear that I simply could not hand over control to anyone else, and because deep down I needed control over something, I'd try to control him or the situation.   Once I mastered control over myself, I learned, what I could control and what I could not.   I could not control what he was going to ask of me, the only thing I could control was my reaction to the command.   
    I think in going along with that is trust, trust in his command and trust in my reaction.       Time, communication and openness with each other, predicts his command and my reaction.  
<snip>

Quoted for Truth

quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

My Master once said "He asked if she'd give her right arm for him. She said she would. It was all fun and games after that - until he asked for her right arm."


people think it's silly for me to have dismemberment on my list of hard limits, thats common sense, right? i now have validation from something besides movies....

quote:

ORIGINAL: tricia
 
I know, at times, the overwhelming theme on the message boards is how strong willed, independent, aggressive women are outside of their relationships.  They view themselves as equals to their dominants, masters, owners.  I’m not saying there is anything wrong with this – but could it be possible that these personality traits or this frame of mind does spill over into their relationships and ultimately lead  to the s type having more control than one would expect in this type of relationship.


i am strong willed, independent and [somewhat] agressive in my relationships...and Daddy likes that...for us, not for anyone else, but for us, the power exchange is all that more....powerful....when there is that much more power to exchange....not sure how else to put it...its like being able to stay on and ride that wild stallion...
also, i mentioned it earlier....i am equal to everyone...on a human level...no better, no worse....i serve a different purpose, yes, but i am equal....and there is no "spill over" because there is no seperation....

in writing these responses i have come to my own personal conclusion at this point....and i agree with someone else, i am just not sure who that is, it was someone earlier in this thread....when there is something as drastic as a submissive controlling a Dominant, i believe it comes down to a lack of compatibility....and whats good for you, may not be good for me, and whats good for me, may not be good for you...or it may...but there is someone out there for everyone...just have to find them....or multiple someone's...that takes a little longer though...more puzzle pieces to fit together...

chelle...the thoughtful one, this morning


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: submissive paradox—controlling the "Dominant... - 10/31/2007 8:22:50 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Why do you think this sort of thing happens?

What could possibly cause someone who claims submission,to want such control over the one he or she supposedly wishes to surrender to?



There are a number of reasons for this, I believe, but for the sake of brevity, I will address what I consider to be the larger causes. Firstly, ignorance of what submission and dominance really is plays a considerable part. Those who submit for ulterior reasons often exude this sort of behavior. Secondly, those without the key components needed to dominate will inadvertently foster this environment in the servant over time. Lastly, I've had the nagging hunch for a while now that the common pearl of wisdom supported in much of the BDSM community stating "the submissive is really in control" might have a little something to do with it, too.



< Message edited by amayos -- 10/31/2007 8:24:22 AM >

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: submissive paradox—controlling the "Dominant... - 10/31/2007 8:32:42 AM   
Matadorr


Posts: 25
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		Heres the thing. A sub wnats to feel DOMINATED that means CONTROLLED...the essence of control means she has NO SAY OR POWER OVER YOU. It is natural for a sub to want to TEST the waters and know what her dominant it made of....so she can love and respect it...and submit to it.

a TRUE domiant in MY OPINION is a very very difficult thing to master, it means being emotionally SOLID like a rock, being intelligent, a leader for you submissive, a partner who can read her moods and wants...and an assertive dominant who will not allow himself to be controlled and is always aware of any powerplay at hand.

SO yes....a sub wants to test the waters, she doesnt want to sub to a weakling. SHe wants to respect, follow and submit to his POWER. If her power is infact greater, equal or simply wearing away at his power...over time this will create the situation I think is being discussed in this thread. There are lots of explanations for this problem, not just the one I mentioned...

But I wanted to add this one succinctley to the thread because I feel alot of people are touching on it but missing the mark.

< Message edited by Matadorr -- 10/31/2007 8:33:24 AM >

(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant&q... - 10/31/2007 8:36:23 AM   
Baroque


Posts: 38
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyntilating




Actually...
As the submissive, I would rather "walk away" than create a ( or be in a ) power struggle.
where is the use in that?
 
I can be patient and obedient..and will be.
I can give as much( or as little) as I am asked or commanded to give.
I will remain by your side, supportive and tolerant of all adjustments in our lives. 
 
but if you want my submission you must present me with your dominance.
  ( wish I could think of a different term than "present"  ,but for now I will leave it..and hope you understand its intent. )
 
its not a demand on my part or about being smartassed or bratty.  It just IS..  my submission( giving over my control to your authority and ability to have control )  is directly reactive/responsive to your level and degree of being in control ( dominance) ..
 
I do not want to get into a game.  It is not a competition or tit-for-tat..manipulation is counterproductive and seriously damaging to a Ms or Ds relationship...... for me, it is a genuine response/reaction and its either there or it isn't.. 
 
You can feel my submission or you can have my obedience and compliance...they are intertwined often  but they are not the same.   imo.
 
What I won't give you is a reason to doubt what really IS. 
because your dominance is just as much in response and porportioned to my giving you my will, control and submission.
The dynamic ( power-exchange)  is either there or it isn't.
 
 
 
 


Exactly. A metaphor that's used a lot is that D/s is a dance, somebody has to lead. If he's not going to lead, then I will be forced to. So telling me he wants to dance, then just standing still on the dance floor automatically puts me in the lead. Whining that I'm not magically following a lead he isn't giving me makes me less inclined to submit.

If you don't want to dance, or have two left feet and refuse to take lessons to change that, then don't expect it to be the kind of dancing you see the professionals do. You want that level of it, you have to work at it.

There's more to being a dominant than free coffee and blowjobs.

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant&q... - 10/31/2007 10:52:28 AM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		And to add one last thought. I think a lot of women like kinky sex. But they get inculcated with the idea that they need to "submit" to have it. So they get stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I've had women like this,and I didn't push them on doing more than the bedroom stuff-it was fun-and actually a lot less work.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to Baroque)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant&q... - 10/31/2007 12:57:12 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Why do you think this sort of thing happens?

What could possibly cause someone who claims submission,to want such control over the one he or she supposedly wishes to surrender to?
 

When you need something, your only security lies in controlling its source.
 
K.
 

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant&q... - 10/31/2007 1:29:46 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Why do you think this sort of thing happens?

What could possibly cause someone who claims submission,to want such control over the one he or she supposedly wishes to surrender to?
 

When you need something, your only security lies in controlling its source.
 
K.
 


Hmmmm, very good point.

And trying to control it kills it.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant&q... - 10/31/2007 1:56:46 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		My presonal experience is that a sub inspires me to WANT to Dominate.

If that starts to slip-it's usually because they start slacking off and getting complacent. If they start nagging and testing as a response-rather than shaping up the issue that is losing my admiration for them-it just starts a downward spiral. It's going to piss the Dom off and lose thier respect of you.  I do say what issues are. No mind reading.

If a girl keeps trying, I do the same-it's a matter of faith and perserverence. You don't control the way that a Dominant peronality feels with negative pressure-that's what you do with little children-and even that works poorly.

You do it by making yourself WORTH the effort.

< Message edited by RRafe -- 10/31/2007 2:02:36 PM >

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant&q... - 10/31/2007 1:56:50 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junecleaver

quote:


Why do you think this sort of thing happens?

What could possibly cause someone who claims submission,to want such control over the one he or she supposedly wishes to surrender to?



I think submissives act like that in order to be proven wrong.    It's not that they want control over their Dominant.  They want to know that they CANNOT have control over their Dominant.  Not just because he said so or they both agreed to a power exchange, but because it is literally impossible to control him.  The only way most people can think of to prove it impossible is by trying it out.  Anytime I have ever acted like that in the past, I was secretly fervently wishing that he'd knock my ass back in line.  Constantly testing the people around you makes you poor company, but sometimes after you made your bed, you've got to lay in it.  It's hard to find a different way to relate when that has become a comfortable pattern.  It's a huge relief to be in a relationship with someone I don't need to test and who wouldn't play those games with me anyway.


I was reading through this thread, reading all the various perspectives and I came across your post.  It strikes at something within me that has been discussed with other submissives and other dominants quite a few times. 

You state that you have fervently hoped in the past that when you tried to control things, you did so hoping that he would knock your ass back into line.  That was what you wanted.  Fine and dandy, it worked great...but...what about those submissives who state that "their submission must be earned" and who wish to dictate the terms under which that is done?  Those submissives who state that your dominance must be proven and you are going along, shouldering this responsibility and sharing that care and concern and then, some issue over control comes up...and you, proving your dominance, show the submissive that you won't be controlled in this area...and she argues mightily and you impose discipline on her and she refuses and walks and then later, after all is calmed down, tells you that you, the dominant, did not take control properly?  Is this a submissive who is wanting to top from the bottom?  Or is an honest case of the dominant reading her wrong in terms of the type of control she would respond to?  How patient and willing to learn about all the little nuances should the dominant be or should there be a clear point, stated from the beginning, that this is the way he does things and that compromise and negotiation are all fine and good and necessary at the beginning but that the dynamic cannot be continuously "detailed" as it is being driven down the road every time a bump comes up and the submissive does not like the way the dominant drives the car over the bump?

I've stated on here many times that I believe in negotiation and discussion and compromise at the beginning and that there are going to come times when things need to be periodically reviewed.  I've stated many times that there are times to punish, times to discipline and times to put serious discussion in front of discipline and punishment.  But...I've also stated on here though that I feel that, once a submissive has agreed to submit...surrender her will to another...then she needs to do that.  Yes, I know that she is human just the same as I am and I know that she is a thinking, feeling creature the same as I am but I also know that she is the one who stated that she CHOOSES not to try and control a relationship she is involved in.

Reticence to give up control is understandable...but you cannot say you are one thing and then go about proving that you are not and then blame it all on the dominant for "not dominating harshly/gently/understandingly/not understandingly/etc. enough.

(in reply to junecleaver)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant&q... - 10/31/2007 2:01:21 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		I think a Top has a clear duty to make his methods known to a sub. And she has to decide if  that is going to work for her-and not be fickle about it -unless it's not working-then they need to renegotiate. But someone who keeps changing the game rules to suit them every five minutes would drive me nuts- I'd have to let her go.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant&q... - 10/31/2007 2:08:00 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

I think a Top has a clear duty to make his methods known to a sub. And she has to decide if  that is going to work for her-and not be fickle about it -unless it's not working-then they need to renegotiate. But someone who keeps changing the game rules to suit them every five minutes would drive me nuts- I'd have to let her go.


Agreed.  With someone like that...and I have dealt with several like that...sooner rather than later is better.  Why put yourself...or her, for that matter...through that kind of hell?  It doesn't have to be done belligerently or with ill will; simply a statement of "This is not working for me and here is why" should be sufficient.  Hell...you might even be able to remain friends...friends who will probably always argue about aspects of D/s...but friends.

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant&q... - 10/31/2007 2:21:24 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

I think a Top has a clear duty to make his methods known to a sub. And she has to decide if  that is going to work for her-and not be fickle about it -unless it's not working-then they need to renegotiate. But someone who keeps changing the game rules to suit them every five minutes would drive me nuts- I'd have to let her go.


Agreed.  With someone like that...and I have dealt with several like that...sooner rather than later is better.  Why put yourself...or her, for that matter...through that kind of hell?  It doesn't have to be done belligerently or with ill will; simply a statement of "This is not working for me and here is why" should be sufficient.  Hell...you might even be able to remain friends...friends who will probably always argue about aspects of D/s...but friends.


Well, I make it pretty clear that I'd rather be alone than in a 24 7 battle. And the ones with huge amounts of reactance and conflicts over thier natures...should deal with this BEFORE seeking D/s. It's very unwise to expect a top to "sort you out"

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 80
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: submissive paradox-controlling the "Dominant" Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109