RE: Rooting for the Villian (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: Rooting for the Villian (10/31/2007 7:59:15 AM)

I’d like to see the eyes of a few posters here just as the knife slices threw the neck bone…yes I would applaud the villain then…oh wait I can’t they are the heroes fighting the great devil…I’d laugh instead I guess.
Butch




SimplyMichael -> RE: Rooting for the Villian (10/31/2007 8:02:22 AM)

Lucky for most of us liberals here, we own more guns and shoot better than the limp wristed scardycat Bush lovers.  So feel free to bring a knife anytime to my gunfight.




EPGAH -> RE: Rooting for the Villian (10/31/2007 8:03:53 AM)

Well, please consider the following COMPLETELY HYPOTHETICAL (Yeah, right! [;)]) scenario:
Decaying buildings house an ever-increasing number of increasingly desperate people. Corporations are buying out and privatizing various functions that were supposed to be left to the Government. Criminals no longer fear law-enforcement, and normally honest citizens are afrait do turn the criminals in, for fear of reprisal. Honest people actually turn to criminals for a sense of "law and order", since the real law no longer applies there! Criminals actually fear EACH OTHER more than they fear the emasculated law-enforcers of the area...The area needs a hero.
Is this:
A.) Setup for RoboCop
B.) Setup for BladeRunner
C.) Setup for The Punisher
D.) Any of a series of minority-heavy inner-city neighborhoods in America, who want help for their (largely self-inflicted) "plight", but will fight to the death AGAINST increased police presence, or any kind of "urban renewal" program
E.) Iraq




joanus -> RE: Rooting for the Villian (10/31/2007 8:06:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I like to see the insurgents win even though the government declares them terrorists and criminals.  Their ideas are so enlightened and they are so brave fighting against the greatest army the world has ever seen using every means at their disposal.


ROTFLMAO when did america become the "greatest army the world has ever seen" the only people who have actually held that title in the last 100 years are Germany WWI, The Nazis WWII, The Japanese WarMachine of the 1930s and 40s, and Russian uptil the early 90s late 80s. Those armies set the standard for all militarys.
As for any means nessecary, the US military is still useing the same basic equipment it was in the 80s. In fact they are soon going to redesignate their standard issue rifles from the M4 the the MAK12 ( I think thats right) which the British, Canadian, Australian, French (Im not sure on France) back in 2000. (can be seen used in the movie 28 days later) American has not upgraded their basic equipment for almost 20 years now. And as for Solider Quality, the JSDF train 10x as hard as any American special force unit, and are on the average 35% better in combat. And you can't beat the Russain Spetsnaz, those guys where probably the best trained soldiers since Sparta. But you can't really do much when your recruiters target the poorist material for training.
Oh and within 21 the guy with the knife will win in a fight.




EPGAH -> RE: Rooting for the Villian (10/31/2007 8:08:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet
In the Skeleton Key, we realize how the Vodoo couple cheats death. Some where happy about the ending becuase they felt the couple deserved to live the good life after having such a harsh one.

In Skeleton Key, I was sort of hoping that the girl would find a way to overcome the dark-magic life-stealers.
For a similar theme, without the magic, try "Taking Lives"--a serial killer who befriends and kills a series of loners, taking on their personas...His perfect life(s) fall apart when he meets and falls in a parody of "love" with Angelina Jolie's character...




RCdc -> RE: Rooting for the Villian (10/31/2007 8:12:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joanus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

But he fucked up and made people pay for mistakes they didn't make either, else I would agree.

 
I disagree not one of those people was inocene.
 
 


I am sure Dr Gordons daughter would disagree with you there.
But I am sure you would disagree that it wasn't 'actually' Jigsaw doing the attempted murder/killing - it was 'really' Hindle.[8|]
 
the.dark.




kdsub -> RE: Rooting for the Villian (10/31/2007 8:14:37 AM)

To me the common thread among likeable villains no matter how vile is a portrayed since of humor…Freddy Kruger is a great example.




joanus -> RE: Rooting for the Villian (10/31/2007 8:19:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: joanus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

But he fucked up and made people pay for mistakes they didn't make either, else I would agree.

 
I disagree not one of those people was inocene.
 
 


I am sure Dr Gordons daughter would disagree with you there.
But I am sure you would disagree that it wasn't 'actually' Jigsaw doing the attempted murder/killing - it was 'really' Hindle.[8|]
 
the.dark.

 
I dont remeber her dieing or getting hurt.




seeksfemslave -> RE: Rooting for the Villian (10/31/2007 8:24:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather
My UM's father used to consistently identify with the bad guys, not as a tool to detach from the story, but just because he sympathized with those characters. Once I realized he met almost every criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder, it kinda made sense.

Yes but you loved him once....maybe you need a kick up the arse he he he he he..... bad bad seeks

No. Sadly, that was before I understood the difference between "I love you" and "I believe I can save you".

But Im in no position to refuse a kick up the arse (if that's what my Daddy thinks I need).


big lols 4me at that.!




RCdc -> RE: Rooting for the Villian (10/31/2007 8:30:46 AM)

***spoiler for Saw (do not read unless you want to know)
 

 
 
 

quote:

 
I dont remeber her dieing or getting hurt.

 
Tied up, bound and gagged(along with her also 'innocent' mother) to the end of a bed, only escaping being shot and murdered by Hindle('it's the rules') because of Tapps timely intervention.
I hardly think their experience and torture due to the mistake of others(re Gordens) constitutes to either wife or child not being innocents.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
spoiler end.

 
the.dark.




joanus -> RE: Rooting for the Villian (10/31/2007 8:36:05 AM)

Warning SAW 4 Spoiler!!!!

In the uncut version you learn that the wife is a cheating slut. But yes the kid didn't deserve it none do I think jiggsaw expected Zep (hindler) would have to kill them because jiggsaw expects them to survive as with his first ever victim which was shown in SAW 4




RCdc -> RE: Rooting for the Villian (10/31/2007 8:41:54 AM)

***Saw Spoiler
 
 
 
 
 
Well, yes - wife is a different scenario, but child still suffered the torture, regardless as to whether Jigsaw thought she would end up dead or not, which is the one small but vital reason why I do not root for him as a villain.  I would still support the Reeker above him.
 
 
 
 
end of spoiler
 
the.dark.




EPGAH -> RE: Rooting for the Villian (10/31/2007 8:55:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
To me the common thread among likeable villains no matter how vile is a portrayed since of humor…Freddy Kruger is a great example.

And that also helps with the likability of the hero, although you have to be careful about just how humorous he gets, or how the humor is delivered, otherwise, you end up as either smug or campy. An example of smug is say, Spider-Man (When he's not angsting about wanting to be normal), and campy is Jackie Chan, where "fights" turn into slapstick circuses. Bruce Campbell managed somehow to be both smug AND campy! [:D]
The one that gets the right amount of humor (IN MY OPINION) is Steven Segal), best illustrated in "Glimmer Man".

SS: I got just the thing for that headache of yours.
Thug: What headache?
(Blow lands)
Thug: OWW!

Or "Fire Down Below"
Evil Mastermind: Is there anything you want, anything I can do for you?
SS: Sure! If you can bring back my friend from the dead, not only will I take back all the nasty things I said about you; I'll be very impressed, too!
(Evil Mastermind realizes that no amount of MATERIAL bribes will work, so orders his thugs to attack...Steven Segal uses them to trash the casino)




joanus -> RE: Rooting for the Villian (10/31/2007 9:33:10 AM)

Steven Segal couldn't act his way out of a paperbag. the guy has only one facial expersion and its as blank as an emty refrgerator.




popeye1250 -> RE: Rooting for the Villian (10/31/2007 9:41:06 AM)

I think it just depends on the villian.
For example Tony Soprano was a "likable" villian.




EPGAH -> RE: Rooting for the Villian (10/31/2007 9:51:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
I think it just depends on the villian.
For example Tony Soprano was a "likable" villian.

True, but that whole series had a kind of twisted premise, that the mafia aren't necessarily bad guys, and indeed possess sort of a twisted neo-feudal "honor" system, which might be their whole appeal, somehow the bad guys' shadow world is more "honorable" than ours?
NOT necessarily saying that's untrue, when "family values" politicians are unmasked as child-molesters, and all the craziness and mixed messages in the Iraq mess...
"GoodFellas" (Probably the start of the mafia-as-"good"-bad-guys craze) even mentioned that the mafia are "cops for people who can't go to the cops...So we have basically a counter-government operating within America (After all, their "protection money" equals honest citizens' "insurance" and taxes...) But in a world where the legitimate cops are hamstrung, we need SOMEONE to keep order, even if they're doing it simply because street warfare is bad for "business", right?




farglebargle -> RE: Rooting for the Villian (10/31/2007 10:01:04 AM)

quote:

But in a world where the legitimate cops are hamstrung,


Yeah, Due Process is *such* an impediment.





EPGAH -> RE: Rooting for the Villian (10/31/2007 10:35:00 AM)

Well, on another thread, there was a fairly chilling post: "God laughs whenever a cop is shot"
I HOPE he was being tongue-in-cheek, or at least in EXTREMELY bad taste, however, that sound-bite DOES seem to have basis in popular opinion. When a cop is shot, there is some mourning, but generally, the topic is "get over it". If a cop shoots--or even "tasers"--a criminal, there is a MASSIVE hue-and-cry...Bigger if the criminal is a minority, 'cause then there are "racist" overtones. Even if the cop survives, his career is usually over...And recently a couple Border Patrolmen were put in JAIL for it!
Collateral damage is even worse, and only recently, the Supreme Court decided that a fleeing criminal--NOT the pursuing cops--is liable for any damage he causes in a crash! This is a small step in the right direction, but police need a lot more protection--not necessarily just legal, given the prevalence of armor-piercing rounds and full-autos on the streets these days...

That aside, of course, the "suspect" (It's rude to call it a criminal just because you have overwhelming evidence, sometimes including video--most that evidence will be "suppressed" by the defense) has to be tried. Defense attorneys get evidence suppressed for being "prejudicial" (But if you think about it, ALL evidence is prejudicial, it either proves you DID it, or DIDN'T do it!) Of course, the criminal being "young" (He didn't know any better! [:(]) and/or a minority (Unfairly oppressed by "The System" [:(]) gives them a BIG bonus in the media, and may or may not influence the case...Everyone makes jokes about lawyers, but a judge is just a lawyer with a promotion! [;)]

Then, if they ARE sentenced, the taxpayers "get" to provide them exercise rooms, food, shelter, cable TV, and "free" health-care--It's not a prison, it's a 3-star hospital/hotel! (Other countries, the jails are concrete/steel boxes, if your family wants you to have any amenities, THEY pay for it--even toothbrushes!)--and they don't have to contribute to society (Chain-gangs are "cruel and unusual" now) Don't worry, though, the criminal is usually back on the street before the arresting officer is out from under the arrest paperwork!

So naturally, if they're underpaid and underappreciated when doing their job, (When they're allowed to do it, and until they're shot), is it any wonder that some choose not to do their job, whether they accept payment to not do it, or not?

I think that police recruitment would make a great subject for a SNL skit.
Announcer: How would YOU like a job where you get underpaid, underappreciated, and shot at by all kinds of criminal scum?
Cadet: Wow, where do I sign up?
Announcer: But wait, there's more...Unstable hours, tremendous mental and emotional strain on you and your family! The lives of you and/or your family getting threatened by friends of the scum you hunt, and you not being able to LEGALLY make a move on them until they actually DO something--and by that time, it's too late! AND you'll have a cute little pistol, while the scum you face will have the option of semi-auto or full-auto firepower!
Cadet: Sounds great!
Announcer: And if you do your job too well, your superiors will come down on you--HARD--and/or you'll get an "envelope" from the local branch of the organized criminal element...
Cadet: Huh?
Announcer: Rules will prevent you from doing your job, so you mi's well take the extra dough!
Cadet: Oh (Disillusioned)

How's THAT for rooting for the villain?




popeye1250 -> RE: Rooting for the Villian (10/31/2007 10:35:19 AM)

Fargle, it really is.
"The only justice in the halls of justice is in the halls."
You can't get any satisfaction unless you're a person of "means."




EPGAH -> RE: Rooting for the Villian (10/31/2007 10:48:15 AM)

Well, there's a REASON no more Dirty Harry movies are made...The guy is only effective because he can intimidate, beat, or shoot the enemies...Even the new Die Hard movie is softpedaled a bit!
Dirty Harry and other prototype action movies were very straightforward, the bad guys were bad, the good guys weren't necessarily good, but they were EFFECTIVE! (And whores always had a heart-o-gold!) The good guys killed all the bad guys (Even the ones that were "just following orders" [;)]), and more often than not, screwed everything with breasts...and sometimes weren't even that discriminating! [;)] If Dirty Harry were to be released now, it would be sued out of existence by the NAACP...Die Hard would be crushed by CAIR (Whose leaders have been convicted of money-laundering and/or providing "material assistance" to terrorists...what a surprise!) James Bond would be quashed by any number of feminist organizations...
Political correctness would ruin any of those old movies...can you imagine James Bond without sex, or Dirty Harry without being allowed to USE his Magnum? Or cutting out all parts of Sopranos that include an act of sex or violence...

But then, in modern movies, the bad guy is a "respectable" businessman, maybe even donates to charity, not just an out-and-out terrorist, but with the schemes of businessmen and even ordinary people, what's left for criminals and terrorists to do?
This leads to more convoluted plotlines, but more complicated isn't always better! [;)]

I know everyone hates YouTube as a source of info, but check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6MVKnU-UJA for a sampling of movies that would probably not be made today with our "culturally sensitive"/PC BS [;)]




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