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RE: US finally Upgrades - 10/31/2007 4:53:00 PM   
TPE4life


Posts: 21
Joined: 10/21/2007
Status: offline 		i know very little about rifles, other then the one i used in the Canadian Reserves. from what i understand, the specs are very good for an assault rifle.

i would encougage a quick glance at these links. some information is duplicated between the links.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as44-e.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diemaco_C7

< Message edited by TPE4life -- 10/31/2007 5:09:01 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: US finally Upgrades - 11/1/2007 5:54:18 AM   
joanus


Posts: 527
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH

Also, why don't Americans--soldiers AND police--confiscate and use enemy firearms and ammo? Other than the reliability bonus, the sound would be the same as enemy troops, so the enemies couldn't home in on the "different" noise of American weapons...and the possibility of making it LOOK like enemies shot each other, since the dropped shell-casings would presumably be AK-style...Sow confusion among enemies, save money!

It makes for logistics/supportability hell, that's why.  If you're overrunning scads of enemy every day and stealing their ammo, fine and dandy.  Otherwise you've got to provide for them oddballs.  And then there's the prospect of being gunned down due to mistaken identity (your fellows hearing an "enemy" gun firing.)

thornhappy



I think now days most weapons use universal cambers, allowing soldiers to use captured ammo and attachments. (example the AK74u) In WWI ammo stortages plagued both sides and since they where unfamilar with enemy weapons, they made the later models (WWII) so that they used similar rounds as the enemy so the can use captured ammo. For example the Masuer type 17 was refited with a heavier barrel and a larger clip to acomadate .45 colt rounds. The newer Kaloshnikovs can use some of the XM caliburs.

(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: US finally Upgrades - 11/1/2007 7:20:13 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: joanus

Yes stef a carrer change would be nice but there arn't many jobs in america for guys me.

Sorry, but that's just a load of bunk.

~stef




yeh blackwater!


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: US finally Upgrades - 11/1/2007 7:59:17 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Just fucking STOP talking!  I thought you had made a complete fool of yourself the other day and might have realized that what you "think" is wrong, not sort of wrong, not kind of wrong but stupid in the same league as Bush and Rice dumb.

quote:

I think now days most weapons use universal cambers, allowing soldiers to use captured ammo and attachments. (example the AK74u)


NO, NO, NO - The Nato rounds has a case length of 45mm, the Russian has a case length of 39mm and if that isn't problem enough, the Nato round has a hole in the barrel (that is the part you forgot to not let someone point at you) is 5.56mm and the Russian is 5,45.  So someone who didn't know jack shit might look at those two and see the Russian round is shorter  in length and the pointy thing (projectile to people who aren't ignorant) is also smaller so it will fit, right?  Well only if you have ZERO experience in firearms or have never actually seen either round.  The Russian round has a larger base diameter (its fatter for people who don't know technical terms)

SO IT WON'T FUCKING FIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

In WWI ammo stortages plagued both sides and since they where unfamilar with enemy weapons,
.

REALLY?  They were "unfamiliar" with enemy weapons?  I take it you are the first to be able to "recognize the enemy by the equipment they wear"?  Your family must be so proud! 

quote:

 they made the later models (WWII) so that they used similar rounds as the enemy so the can use captured ammo. 


I am running out of expletives but BULLSHIT would seem to fit the bill here.  The US used 7.62X63, the Brits 7.7x56R, the Russians 7.62X54R, the Germans 7.92x54. 

THEY JUST DON'T FUCKING FIT UNLIKE YOUR FOOT IN YOUR MOUTH

quote:

  For example the Masuer type 17 was refited with a heavier barrel and a larger clip to acomadate .45 colt rounds.


I even googled this one to make sure I hadn't missed a German submachinegun, an area of personal interest, so I have no idea what imaginary gun you have created here.  The German military used every weapon they could find in WWII, even god forbid, a couple of French ones.  However, nobody on the continent used 45 except the Finns in limited numbers.  The Germans did EXPORT a small handful of Styer MP34s to Colombia in 45 but Mauser (not Muasur or whatever) didn't really produce much in the way of submachineguns.

quote:

  The newer Kaloshnikovs can use some of the XM caliburs.


Some of them can ONLY use 5.56 (XM calibErs) because THEY ARE FUCKING MADE IN THAT CALIBER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

I normally do NOT recommend the internet as a source for firearms information but ANYTHING has to be better than whatever bathroom wall you have been getting yours from.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: US finally Upgrades - 11/1/2007 8:07:46 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		I think Simply Michael has finally found someone who deserves his particular debate style.  Bet he's a Republican too.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: US finally Upgrades - 11/1/2007 8:08:42 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

It makes for logistics/supportability hell, that's why.  If you're overrunning scads of enemy every day and stealing their ammo, fine and dandy.  Otherwise you've got to provide for them oddballs.  And then there's the prospect of being gunned down due to mistaken identity (your fellows hearing an "enemy" gun firing.)


The US was so short of troops during the early days after the war when the lack of planning was most obvious, they took armored troops out of their vehicles, issued them AKs, since they didn't have enough weapons in their TOE and sent them on patrol.

A little known fact is that the Israelis, when they went into Entebbe, didn't use Uzis, they used Mac 10s with suppressors.  That way the sound of ANY gun meant a bad guy.  Pretty damn slick.

(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: US finally Upgrades - 11/1/2007 8:10:09 AM   
joanus


Posts: 527
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline 		The Masuer is a chinese pistol I believe, also know as the "broom handle" and gave birth to the shooting style called bandit shooting today called Gangsta' shooting in which the gun is held sideways so that the mussle jump creates a horizontal sweeping patteren allowing effective covering fire and usefull in mopping up the enemy. The japanese hated it. For a guy who goes on and on about history you seem to lack detail.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: US finally Upgrades - 11/1/2007 8:14:20 AM   
joanus


Posts: 527
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

A little known fact is that the Israelis, when they went into Entebbe, didn't use Uzis, they used Mac 10s with suppressors.  That way the sound of ANY gun meant a bad guy.  Pretty damn slick.


Why would they need to use Suppressors since most of the new  Israeli made Uzis have BIULT IN suppressors. I know I've taken enough of them apart.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: US finally Upgrades - 11/1/2007 8:14:58 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Alumbrado,

I have a distaste for people who talk out of their ass, whether on the left or the right, actually, I hate those on the left who are fucking morons even more.  You should see me foam at the mouth when someone says "its all natural, it CAN'T hurt you!"  "Here bitch, try this hemlock tea and these delicious digitalis muffins with Oleander frosting!"

As for Republican's in general, I am far more of a greedy capitalist than most, having spent many years as an entreprenuer in the small arms business.  I just am not stupid enough to fail to see capitalism's limits, just as I try and see the good and bad in everything.

In your case, I see someone who follows me around hoping for crumbs in the form of a chance to toss a dig my way.  If that makes you happy, I am glad.  This weekend not much could bother me, my woman is in town and I am going to be sperm free by monday so enjoy whatever weekend you are having.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: US finally Upgrades - 11/1/2007 8:17:11 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Sweetly pointing out in adjunct to Mike's post,  that Nato makes interchangeable ammunition,(for some members) of course.  But for those who skipped the lunch notice, folks that were Soviets at one time, or Chinese or anything other were over time signatories to some UN shit, and the calibers were adjusted for 'humanitarian reasons'.

See, there was this posit amongst the fearless fighting czars of the world that ran along the lines of:

Lets say an amerikanski and a russki are having a good old knock down drag out... we as good god fearing citizens of the world would feel a little cheap were the sovietski to run out of ammunition, rape and glean some ammunition from one of our rotting heroic soldiers face down in the mud and gain an upper hand on a living fighting unit of americanskis. They got fatter.  We got slimmer.  So at the very utopian edge of things you could, I suppose take a hammer and pound a round in the breech; or; alternatively  (if you understand the term headspace in chambering, not in sucking and fucking) blow the breech back in your face the other way.

So, that is one reason that ammo isn't universal.  The other dealing with the designer of the gun, and his soveriegnty in decideding what characteristics he wants to machine into it within military parameters of course.

From a non-professional viewpoint.

Ron   



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: US finally Upgrades - 11/1/2007 8:27:00 AM   
joanus


Posts: 527
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline 		I found the page of the rifle I was talking about its the Masada by Magpul (my bad).
http://www.magpul.com/pdfs/masada_technote.pdf

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: US finally Upgrades - 11/1/2007 8:27:14 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Alumbrado,

I have a distaste for people who talk out of their ass, whether on the left or the right, actually, I hate those on the left who are fucking morons even more.  You should see me foam at the mouth when someone says "its all natural, it CAN'T hurt you!"  "Here bitch, try this hemlock tea and these delicious digitalis muffins with Oleander frosting!"

As for Republican's in general, I am far more of a greedy capitalist than most, having spent many years as an entreprenuer in the small arms business.  I just am not stupid enough to fail to see capitalism's limits, just as I try and see the good and bad in everything.

In your case, I see someone who follows me around hoping for crumbs in the form of a chance to toss a dig my way.  If that makes you happy, I am glad.  This weekend not much could bother me, my woman is in town and I am going to be sperm free by monday so enjoy whatever weekend you are having.


Sorry that you are so insecure and/or paranoid that you see a dig at Joanus as an attack on you. Perhaps you should lay off the foxglove and the rosagenin. 

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: US finally Upgrades - 11/1/2007 10:16:45 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Mauser is a GERMAN firearms firm not Chinese or Japanese. While they manufactured designs for various governments the original "broomhandle" C96 chambered in 7.63 X 25mm saw action in the European theater. A copy of it named Shansei, Shanxi or Shanzi  depending on the source was manufactured by the Chinese in 45 acp.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: US finally Upgrades - 11/1/2007 10:26:29 AM   
joanus


Posts: 527
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks for the help Archie. Im not being an asshole I actually am glad you mentioned that. How ever our WWII weapons "expert" didn't pick up on that. The Type 17 was a Chinese imatation, I just didn't know of or if the chinese actually named it.

< Message edited by joanus -- 11/1/2007 10:28:29 AM >

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: US finally Upgrades - 11/1/2007 10:36:55 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joanus

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

A little known fact is that the Israelis, when they went into Entebbe, didn't use Uzis, they used Mac 10s with suppressors.  That way the sound of ANY gun meant a bad guy.  Pretty damn slick.


Why would they need to use Suppressors since most of the new  Israeli made Uzis have BIULT IN suppressors. I know I've taken enough of them apart.


While you are Googling Mauser, look up the date for Entebbe...  

(in reply to joanus)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: US finally Upgrades - 11/1/2007 10:55:38 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Mauser is a GERMAN firearms firm not Chinese or Japanese. While they manufactured designs for various governments the original "broomhandle" C96 chambered in 7.63 X 25mm saw action in the European theater. A copy of it named Shansei, Shanxi or Shanzi  depending on the source was manufactured by the Chinese in 45 acp.


Mauser was one of the best actions made. Good old bang around sum bitch. Lotsa people copied it the world over. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: US finally Upgrades - 11/1/2007 11:21:21 AM   
Crush


Posts: 1031
Status: offline 		_*phew*_

back with the popcorn, gummies, licorice...I even picked up some raisinets, goobers and snowcaps...the drama continues......

http://www.amazon.com/Classic-Cinema-Snacks-Treats-Basket/dp/B000K2GMAK





(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: US finally Upgrades - 11/1/2007 11:42:00 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Its not drama, it is a farce, can't you tell?

(in reply to Crush)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: US finally Upgrades - 11/1/2007 12:12:39 PM   
joanus


Posts: 527
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline 		*steals some of Crush's raisinets*

(in reply to Crush)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: US finally Upgrades - 11/1/2007 12:26:23 PM   
fergus


Posts: 1110
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		Out of abject boredom I will toss in 2 cents.

I don't think the US military has been cutting edge on the small arms department since we were using Pennsylvania long rifles against the Brisith Brown Bess back in 1770's   :P

fergus

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 60
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