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KarbonCopy -> Pure/Natural subs (8/3/2005 8:24:06 PM)

I've been contemplating something recently, and I was wondering if anyone has thought about it as well.

I've seen the terms "Natural Dom/me" and "natural slave/sub" used when refering to some people, and i'm not 100% sure what this means.

Now my second thought was, Are we looking at a brand new generation of er.. "us"?

A close look at my life has me wondering this. I grew up since a small child with a single mother who is also in the lifestyle. I grew up around it, born into this life. As I grew older, it stayed with me, and the more and more I started thinking about sex, and relationships, naturally I expected a somewhat D/s relationship (as much as I knew back then).

It became a craving for me, that was what I wanted in my life. That was how I saw life, thats what I automatically what I decided that I wanted.

My first relationship with I am currently in, is currently with a Domme, never even had a vanilla relationship.

Are we going to be seeing a new generation of lifestylers? Uncorrupted by the vanilla world?



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Pure/Natural subs (8/3/2005 8:28:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KarbonCopy
I've seen the terms "Natural Dom/me" and "natural slave/sub" used when refering to some people, and i'm not 100% sure what this means.


*shudder* It means a term for people to try and feel better/superior about their orientation, most often used in opposition to the "fakes" or "not as intense" dudes out there.
quote:


My first relationship with I am currently in, is currently with a Domme, never even had a vanilla relationship.

Are we going to be seeing a new generation of lifestylers? Uncorrupted by the vanilla world?

It is my belief that I am part of the generation which, on a wide scale, will have the opportunity to be part of the BDSM culture and have BDSM relationships WITHOUT the intermittent "trying to make it work as vanilla" period that so many before us have had to do, possibly never even being able to express their desires at all.

And I believe this will only become more and more prevalent, we will see teens doing more and more kink in their normal sexual explorations (trust me, they already are doing it) and jumping directly into the scene. This is why I think we should embrace teaching young newbies, rather than shunning them and forcing them to go to the dark, with no help at all.



KarbonCopy -> RE: Pure/Natural subs (8/3/2005 8:32:20 PM)

Is it common to find other people as "non corrupted" so to speak into the Vanilla life?
I mean I can understand then learning about it at an early age, and trying it out earlier on, in their venture into self realization, but are we going to see more people born into this lifestyle?



mistoferin -> RE: Pure/Natural subs (8/3/2005 8:37:36 PM)

quote:

Are we going to be seeing a new generation of lifestylers? Uncorrupted by the vanilla world?


LOL....There are a few of us dinosaurs out here who have had all of our experiences on the "dark side" as well. Kinky people are not a new thing. I know it's hard to imagine (and probably a bit squicky) but there are some of us who were doing this long before the new generation (no offense intended whatsoever) and I am sure there were many doing it long before my generation too.



imtempting -> RE: Pure/Natural subs (8/3/2005 8:42:53 PM)

quote:

EmeraldSlave2shudder* It means a term for people to try and feel better/superior about their orientation, most often used in opposition to the "fakes" or "not as intense" dudes out there.

I agree

Now 2nd comment/question.
Well its hard to say. Your mum was open about it alot of other people would keep it hidden to their child. I think the only differance to now from the past is people are more open and let other people know.

Your only grown up knowing the one lifestyle so to you vanilla would be the Alt lifestyle and no doubt seems weird.




LRODANDMASTER -> RE: Pure/Natural subs (8/3/2005 8:43:07 PM)

WHEN I GO TO THE GROSERY STORE I TRY TO BYE ORGANIC VEGTEABLES BECAUSE THEY ARE MORE PURE AND NATURAL SO I FEEL THE SAME WAY ABOUT SUBS I DONT WANT AN ARTIFISHAL SUB



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Pure/Natural subs (8/3/2005 8:54:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KarbonCopy

Is it common to find other people as "non corrupted" so to speak into the Vanilla life?
I mean I can understand then learning about it at an early age, and trying it out earlier on, in their venture into self realization, but are we going to see more people born into this lifestyle?

What do you consider "people born into the lifestyle"? Do you mean raised by parents who are completely out to their kids about their relationship dynamics and kinks?



KarbonCopy -> RE: Pure/Natural subs (8/3/2005 9:03:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: imtempting

quote:

EmeraldSlave2shudder* It means a term for people to try and feel better/superior about their orientation, most often used in opposition to the "fakes" or "not as intense" dudes out there.

I agree

Now 2nd comment/question.
Well its hard to say. Your mum was open about it alot of other people would keep it hidden to their child. I think the only differance to now from the past is people are more open and let other people know.

Your only grown up knowing the one lifestyle so to you vanilla would be the Alt lifestyle and no doubt seems weird.




Actually it seems boring, not weird.


EmeraldSlave2: Um yea pretty much, other than that, it would just be freaking weird lol.



AAkasha -> RE: Pure/Natural subs (8/3/2005 9:59:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2


quote:

ORIGINAL: KarbonCopy
I've seen the terms "Natural Dom/me" and "natural slave/sub" used when refering to some people, and i'm not 100% sure what this means.


*shudder* It means a term for people to try and feel better/superior about their orientation, most often used in opposition to the "fakes" or "not as intense" dudes out there.
quote:


My first relationship with I am currently in, is currently with a Domme, never even had a vanilla relationship.

Are we going to be seeing a new generation of lifestylers? Uncorrupted by the vanilla world?

It is my belief that I am part of the generation which, on a wide scale, will have the opportunity to be part of the BDSM culture and have BDSM relationships WITHOUT the intermittent "trying to make it work as vanilla" period that so many before us have had to do, possibly never even being able to express their desires at all.

And I believe this will only become more and more prevalent, we will see teens doing more and more kink in their normal sexual explorations (trust me, they already are doing it) and jumping directly into the scene. This is why I think we should embrace teaching young newbies, rather than shunning them and forcing them to go to the dark, with no help at all.


While staying away from the drama associated with terms like "real" or "natural", is there any way to make one clear distinction between people who were "born" with the desires vs. those that learned about BDSM and decided it would be "fun" but really could take it or leave it? Surely, people know what I'm talking about.

There are a lot of us that had these ideas about domination or submission before we even knew what it was. We were tying each other up in innocent kid games and engaging it in romantically/sexually as we matured. Some did not act on the ideas as early as others, and some didn't even reallize their ideas/fantasies were ok until they were much older. But the common theme is that the ideas were always there, and they also don't go away in time. They can't be ignored or turned off, and are basically part of our being. The degree to which we engage in real life exploration can vary greatly, but the common theme is that the "urge" or "lust" for it doesn't ever go away. It's in our wiring.

There are others that found out about BDSM and consider it exciting and passionate and integrate it into their lives. Many of them might even be more "active" in the bdsm community than some "home grown" bdsmers who just practice it in their private lives. One category is not more real, or better than the other.

But it still seems like they are at least definable -- vs. "TPE" or "24/7" which are impossible to define because they depend on perspective.

I don't know if I'm making sense.

Akasha



KarbonCopy -> RE: Pure/Natural subs (8/3/2005 10:17:06 PM)

So you've helped support the difference between "home grown" and and I dunno, those who learn about it.

But what kind of things are we to expect from this? two diferrent classs of Fetishists? I mean neither are better than the other, but there definantly is a distinctive difference, just because there would be two different worlds of experience.

Those who found out about it, and grew into it, most likely started out vanilla. Therefore different relationships and lessons learned from it.

Those born with these desires, would most likely search for this lifestyle immediately when they start thinking about relationships.



AAkasha -> RE: Pure/Natural subs (8/3/2005 10:38:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KarbonCopy

So you've helped support the difference between "home grown" and and I dunno, those who learn about it.

But what kind of things are we to expect from this? two diferrent classs of Fetishists? I mean neither are better than the other, but there definantly is a distinctive difference, just because there would be two different worlds of experience.

Those who found out about it, and grew into it, most likely started out vanilla. Therefore different relationships and lessons learned from it.

Those born with these desires, would most likely search for this lifestyle immediately when they start thinking about relationships.



The reason I think it would be important to know anyway (based on my own personal experience) is to avoid developing a relationship with a partner who didn't understand me, or who would decide one day they got bored with bdsm and wanted to move on.

Someone who does bdsm because it's fun and exciting might not understand that sometimes I wake up and *need* to do it. It's not something as arbitrary as playing tennis. It's something that will become more and more distracting the longer I ignore it, and if ignored long enough, I would be so frustrated that I'd want to seek it elsewhere. Someone needs to understand this when getting into a relationship with me because it's core to my desires. I will not grow out of it. My partner must know that I am serious when I say that if you deny me this, I will want to seek it elsewhere. I will not "give it up" -- it's too much a part of my wiring.

Someone who wasn't born with the desires doesn't understand that sometimes the desires just hit -- I don't pick days to want to do it. I miss it when it's not available, and it makes me frustrated if I have to wait. Someone without that same kind of wiring could just as easily say to me, "Oh, get over it. It's not that big of a deal."

Akasha



KarbonCopy -> RE: Pure/Natural subs (8/4/2005 12:50:38 AM)

Okay Akasha, I know exactly how you feel!

So obviously, there has to be a certain amount of attention payed to these conditions. Has anyone really addressed this? because it appears to me that this is a serious issue.




plantlady64 -> RE: Pure/Natural subs (8/4/2005 7:57:57 AM)




quote:

ORIGINAL: KarbonCopy

I've seen the terms "Natural Dom/me" and "natural slave/sub" used when refering to some people, and i'm not 100% sure what this means.


Hello There,
I think to me the term is like saying someone is a natural architect, engineer, computer programmer etc... Without having to be educated first. Someone who just has a knack for something those others can take years to learn.
It means that from the moment they recognized the Dom/sub inside themselves they took to it like a duck to water. It's their natural behaviors they've always had that finally have the last piece of the puzzle clicked into place and they see the whole puzzle for the first time. The natural ones are just able to feel more comfortable on their paths right away.
I have been a service oriented submissive person in all of my interests, friendships, vocations and relationships my whole life. Now that converts into the magical happy whole feeling I was lacking before in my sexuality too. It for me was like coming home.

The not natural born people are attracted to it, but have to learn the conditioned responses and adjust from their prior responses, desires and points of view.
Sincerely,
sub suzanne



Mercnbeth -> RE: Pure/Natural subs (8/4/2005 8:01:08 AM)

quote:

I have been a service oriented submissive person in all of my interests, friendships, vocations and relationships my whole life. Now that converts into the magical happy whole feeling I was lacking before in my sexuality too. It for me was like coming home.


great post sub suzanne, this slave couldn't agree more!



plantlady64 -> RE: Pure/Natural subs (8/4/2005 8:17:33 AM)


[

quote:

great post sub suzanne, this slave couldn't agree more!

Hello Mercnbeth,
Awwww Shucks, thank you for the compliment very much. You made me blush.
I do very much feel whole & very happy for the first time in a sexually expressive capacity. I'd had some phenominal vanilla lovers in my past, but none of them can make me feel one tenth the emotions and sensations I feel with a Dom. For me now it's not nearly as much about mechanics of sex, but rather the whole submission of my will and the mind f**c ability I can partake in now that fulfills me.
SIncerely,
sub suzanne



OsideGirl -> RE: Pure/Natural subs (8/4/2005 8:22:09 AM)

The terms "natural" and "true" are pet peeves of mine. You can naturally have a dominant or submissive personality, but being A submissive or dominant is learned.

I have a natural ability when it comes to riding horses, but I was not an equestrian until I took lessons and learned. Think about it, you may be a natural athlete, but still have to learn to play baseball.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Pure/Natural subs (8/4/2005 9:58:38 AM)

quote:

The terms "natural" and "true" are pet peeves of mine. You can naturally have a dominant or submissive personality, but being A submissive or dominant is learned.


one of this slave's pet peeves is also the "true" label when applied to Dom/mes or sub/slaves, unless of course we are talking about a role in a theater production or a movie, but that's "acting". however, "natural" is something that this slave does not find offensive or self-inflating. you say you have a "natural" ability when it comes to riding horses, but in order to call yourself an equestrian you took lessons from someone and learned valuable skills. this slave believes it is also possible to have a "naturally" submissive personality, and as sub suzanne described very aptly:
quote:

I have been a service oriented submissive person in all of my interests, friendships, vocations and relationships my whole life.


this slave agrees with her in that she too, has "naturally" gravitated and felt most comfortable, productive and at peace when in a position of service. it mattered not if it was a friendship, relationship, donating skills or time, being paid a wage for it, or a personal interest. the taking of lessons from someone and learning valuable skills came at the hands of everyone served. the specific skills this slave needed to learn in order to be Master's slave have come at His hand, however. though this slave has been what she considers to be "naturally" submissive all of her life, she couldn't be Master's slave without His training, and she is most grateful for it!

disclaimer: this slave has read several replies to posts regarding the insistance that one must learn to be a submissive and and also the exclusivity with which some are submissive (as in only in their relationship with their Dom/me), and this slave is not saying that it is not something that some folks indeed MUST learn in order to experience it firsthand. however that has not been this slave's personal experience, which is where her opinions come from.[:)]



nella -> RE: Pure/Natural subs (8/4/2005 10:32:09 AM)

i think that some pepole feel submissive or Dominant from, well as early as they can remember, it just falls natrual for them, it do not mean they are better subs or Doms than those that have desided they want this later on.



nenakajira -> RE: Pure/Natural subs (8/4/2005 11:04:13 AM)

Ever feel that history has come full circle. The original term was "The Natural Slave". You first find it in Aristotle's Politics Book 1 circa 350 BC or so.

If you'd like to read it: The Natural Slave

Enjoy
nena{R}



darkinshadows -> RE: Pure/Natural subs (8/4/2005 11:24:14 AM)

I undersatnd your concept, but I don't think that is the case.

If you are gay in a hetro household, you dont always have to have been 'corrupted' by hetro life and experience. Same as being the child in a gay houshold or where a parent is gay, wouldn't make that child gay.

I think that to feel that your may be truer or purer because you have never been 'corrupted' by outside experiences is naive. Experience is just that, experience - and whether good or bad, doesn't make a person. It only makes a person, if that person utilises it. Scars and marks - doesn't change ones essence.

Peace and Love



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