Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (11/3/2007 7:49:06 PM)

This evening as I was walking down to my local,it was unusually misty, but the air smelled acrid, a gunpowder smell. This was because many were celebrating Bonfire night a little early and the sky was shocked with the sound of fireworks.

Bonfire night traditionally celebrated in Great Britain on November the fifth in response to a certain Guy Fawkes who tried unsuccessfully to blow up the house of parliament. Can't remember if was in celebration of his intent or his capture.

Now the thought came about bonfire night, a question and perhaps a criticism.What with this world and all the stuff about the atmosphere and dwindling resources, why are there perhaps thousands of tons of wood burned on one night of the year, not to mention all the chemicals put into the atmosphere from fireworks.

Does it not seem two faced for all and sundry to persecute us for our waste, carbon footprint and Co2 emissions when on one night of the year and perhaps a few running up to it, it would seem a no holds barred, free for all; 'lets pollute the atmosphere' with wood smoke and gunpowder.And what about all that timber that is burned, surely it could be used elsewhere, is wood that easy a commodity to come by?

It does seem to me , the usual noise in the ears people who promote all this be nice to the earth, are strangely quiet, perhaps because they themselves are joining in the tradition and ignoring what they like the rest of the Uk are doing.

Just my thoughts



Rule -> RE: Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (11/3/2007 8:19:30 PM)

Gun powder has nitrate in it. Nitrate fertilises the soil. Ashes and airborne soot from burnt wood also fertilise the soil. So fertilise the fields at the start of winter and when the sowing time in spring arrives the fields will be ready to produce another rich crop.



MissMagnolia -> RE: Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (11/3/2007 8:23:27 PM)

When all the cars are electrically powered and all the factories have stopped spewing chemicals into the air and water, I'll worry about fires and fireworks on one night of the year.



FangsNfeet -> RE: Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (11/3/2007 8:28:25 PM)

Since we're all going to die, why not go out with a bang? We got to have a little fun every now and then.



popeye1250 -> RE: Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (11/3/2007 8:43:07 PM)

Funny, I just got back from a "Guy Fawkes" cookout just a while ago.
They had a huge bonfire and fireworks for a half hour.
Also venison stew, barbequed pork, beans, chile, potato salad and a whole bunch of other things that people brought.
It was a lot of fun!



Zensee -> RE: Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (11/4/2007 1:35:12 AM)

Baked potatoes in their jackets dripping with butter and Marmite. Fireworks and a bonfire. Nothing like a burning in effigy to herald the winter.


Z



Rumtiger -> RE: Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (11/4/2007 2:15:11 AM)

bastards are making me hungry, its too late for me to be chowing now.



Politesub53 -> RE: Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (11/4/2007 2:26:46 AM)

In Kent the burnt an effigy of Cherrie Blair.... So its not all bad news is it [;)]

I think the effect of one nights fireworks pales into insignifigance, against all the barbarques held world wide. Do we stop them too ?



beeble -> RE: Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (11/4/2007 2:42:51 AM)

quote:

Aneirin wrote: Bonfire night traditionally celebrated in Great Britain on November the fifth in response to a certain Guy Fawkes who tried unsuccessfully to blow up the house of parliament. Can't remember if was in celebration of his intent or his capture.

It's to celebrate his capture -- that's why he's traditionally burnt in effigy on the fire.



beeble -> RE: Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (11/4/2007 2:50:58 AM)

quote:

Rule wrote: Gun powder has nitrate in it. Nitrate fertilises the soil.

Gunpowder is a mixture of charcoal, sulphur and potassium nitrate.  The nitrates are there to provide oxygen for the explosive combustion of the charcoal; exploded gunpowder contains hardly any nitrates -- they've been converted to nitrogen gas and carbon monoxide/dioxide.  Once it's gone bang, there's no more fertilizer.

(So, er, is the sulphur acting as fuel, oxidizer or something else?)



Rule -> RE: Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (11/4/2007 3:55:35 AM)

Nitrogen gas and carbon monoxide/dioxide do not smell. When fireworks explode there is always the stench of gun powder, so there is always some nitrate that is not combusted in the explosions.



Aneirin -> RE: Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (11/4/2007 4:46:01 AM)

So fireworks being what they are, a chemical cocktail, the different effects, displays etc, how are they produced, what is introduced into the 'formula' to make a fire work do something different. Thoughts about some might be magnesium, but I am no chemist.

Is it possible that there are substances in a fire work formula which might not be enviromentally friendly?



RealityLicks -> RE: Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (11/4/2007 5:34:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beeble

quote:

Aneirin wrote: Bonfire night traditionally celebrated in Great Britain on November the fifth in response to a certain Guy Fawkes who tried unsuccessfully to blow up the house of parliament. Can't remember if was in celebration of his intent or his capture.

It's to celebrate his capture -- that's why he's traditionally burnt in effigy on the fire.



Yeah, the annual "Burn a Catholic" festival was a real measure of the society. Come a long way since then. Haven't we?



sophia37 -> RE: Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (11/4/2007 5:39:40 AM)

I've heated my home for the last 25 years with wood. So maybe we should do away with me frist? I just need to add fireworks to call attention to it I guess. 



Politesub53 -> RE: Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (11/4/2007 5:46:10 AM)

RealityLicks.... A celebration of fireworks and burning an effigy of the main conspirator to overthrow parleiment is hardly " burn a Catholic " night now is it !

You know, i suspect many Catholics enjoyed a fireworks party or two this weekend as well.



Aneirin -> RE: Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (11/4/2007 5:47:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sophia37

I've heated my home for the last 25 years with wood. So maybe we should do away with me frist? I just need to add fireworks to call attention to it I guess. 


Burning wood to heat homes and cook food is a traditional and necessay use of the stuff, but burning it just for the burning seems to me a massive waste.

Real timber that is, the particle board stuff can go if a better use cannot be found for it. Mind particle board is not of much use anyway!



angeldustx -> RE: Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (11/4/2007 5:49:59 AM)

i have to admit to loving bonfires and fireworks! but yes it does have an effect on the environment, the smell is delicous and just reminds me of autumn how it lingers on the air for so long!  i think they should stop the general public buying fireworks and only have organised displays that will go a little way toward helping the environment!  however we seem to do soo much to damage it with cars etc i guess bonfire night isnt as bad as flying etc...



RealityLicks -> RE: Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (11/4/2007 5:56:47 AM)

At ease, Polite. Of course we're much more religiously tolerant nowadays. But it was very much a Papist plot and that was a feature in the origins of it. And of course, Catholics enjoy Nov 5th like everyone else. They just can't marry the reigning monarch, is all. And its still illegal for a Catholic priest to wear their vestments in public, although its unlikely to result in prosecution.



petdave -> RE: Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (11/4/2007 6:35:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

So fireworks being what they are, a chemical cocktail, the different effects, displays etc, how are they produced, what is introduced into the 'formula' to make a fire work do something different. Thoughts about some might be magnesium, but I am no chemist.


A wide variety of things. Copper and cobalt for blue flame, magnesium for brilliant whites, iron for sparkles, barium for green... The list goes on.

Old-fashioned black powder is actually not very common in fireworks anymore... they use a composition known as flash powder, which combines a very finely ground aluminum (aluminium, to you [:D]) with an oxidizer such as potassium or ammonium perchlorate. If you look at unitednuclear.com, they offer a wide variety of chemicals used to generate different pyrotechnic effects... Modern fireworks are fairly complex chemically, and i would be quite impressed with any layman who could speak knowledgeably about the environmental results. Far more disturbing to me would be the production process- Chinese, extremely high volume/low quality control, trainloads of chemicals.

And i would say that the bonfires on one night in a geographically small, industrialized nation are of zero environmental consequence compared to those used daily across the non-industrialized world for all purposes, not to mention the slash & burn clearing of South American rain forests for agriculture. Just don't burn pressure-treated wood, 'kay?

Honestly, i'm just surprised that the Queen still lets y'all play with fireworks!



KatyLied -> RE: Thoughts on Bonfire night and the enviroment. (11/4/2007 6:37:39 AM)

I love bonfires.  I have asthma that is triggered by smoke, but I will tolerate and pre-medicate for bonfires.  I had a Dom who lived out in the country, near a stream, and we would sometimes have a bonfire in the evening.  It was nice.  I don't feel bad for the hurt I put on the environment, intentionally, those few nights.



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