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RE: Safe words - 11/7/2007 2:37:48 PM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

We generally use the "stoplight" code... yellow for getting in over my head... and red for stop.

In the past, I had the safeword of "lawsuit!"

hell 'no win no fee' just takes too long to say when one is choking

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RE: Safe words - 11/7/2007 3:34:48 PM

Prinsexx

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There are so many issues raised in the posts in this thread. I could speak from the theory of safe words: you know being a form of protocol between bdsm players designed to stop the scene but that’s just a definition and only interesting from the outside looking in. Oh what fun the vanillas think when they see the kinks are having such intense interactions they actually have to say stop.
But I can only really speak from the heart. Safe words are a construct and safety is a feeling. Words are constructs designed to convey feelings. Yes? Anyway during vanilla sex I remember and admit to saying No when I really meant carry on…..’subconsciously’ but actually quite near the surface of knowing that I wanted more than what was on offer. I think safe words traditionally used in play, the yellow card, orange card or red for stop protocol is probably necessary for safety between players who do not know each other intimately. But safe words in a longer term relationship? For me they tend to not get used as we each get to read each other’s body language as the relationship develops. The same activity, (for example, fisting), is never the same with any two individuals so one cannot rely on this 10 years in the lifestyle attitude. It does depend on how long in relationship with the bdsm partner. If I had only ever engaged in bdsm activities with those I had had long-term and intimate relationships with then safe words would have become redundant. So II therefore do agree, as has been double quoted that they are "a short cut to getting to know someone" .

But if the dynamic is based entirely on total power exchange, consensually having no power within the relationship for example, where would be the function of a safe word? I also feel that the role of safe words differs in whether the activity is predominantly sensation, restraint, humiliation or sado-masochism. Based purely on my personal opinion sadism is the trump card. Safe words only feed the sadist.

Very soon after sceneing He suggested that maybe we should have a safe word because we realised the dynamic was based on his sadism matching my masochism and we could easily do harm. But to Him the use of a safe word does not automatically drop the scene but might change the activity (to a more pleasurable) therefore more sadistic activity) or leads to a warning of later punishment. Awww no pain no gain. I have simply collapsed rather than resort to a safe word because I know if I use a stop signal I am topping Him and that for me is an even worse sensation than going through the threshold. In any case the use of either body language or safe word does not guarantee that the same types of activity the next meet, following day, or week or the next year, will produce the same relationship to the absence or presence of a safe word.

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 11/7/2007 3:42:56 PM >

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RE: Safe words - 11/7/2007 3:50:20 PM

InkedMaster

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We use "AFLACK"
ya know that lil duck on tv that screams AAFFFFFLLLLLAAAACCCKKKK!!!!!

So if my adorable slave uses it, I'll have to stop what I'm doing because I'd be laughing too fucking hard to continue!

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RE: Safe words - 11/7/2007 7:04:59 PM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Having a safe-word takes most, if not all, of the responsibility for what happens away from the dominant.

Seriously, I have no idea how it is that you come to this conclusion. Is a Dominant absolved of most or all responsibility if a submissive says "I have a cramp"? Is a Dominant absolved of most or all responsibility if a submissive says "Rumplestilskin"?

Just as a safeword does not offer any magical protection to a submissive, it also offers no magical absolution to Dominants. And it's equally foolish to portray a safeword as offering either protection or absolution. It is what it is... a communication tool. And what a Dominant chooses to do with that information is entirely up to them and the commitments they have made, if any, to their submissive (accepting that all actions can have consequences, good or bad).

quote:

He/She can flail away all the skin from the submissive's back and/or break every blood vessel in the submissive ass and if the submissive is stoic, is having an "out of body experience", or just can't vocalize or express the agreed upon magic word; and his/her reaction to a complaint can be "Whoops, Damn - sorry that you lost a pint of blood. I thought that was a bit much, but since I didn't hear your safe word I figured- hey, what the hell!"

Honestly, I know of no one that engages in the scene dynamics you described. No one. Not a single person. And yet many of them routinely utilize safe words. So either I'm missing something that is plainly evident to you, or you're describing something that does not exist. I'm betting on the latter.

quote:

There has been an example of this occuring given in this thread.

I certainly hope you do not believe everything you read online. I know I don't.

John

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RE: Safe words - 11/7/2007 7:22:13 PM

daddyncherry

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i could simply say "Daddy????" in that tone and he would check on me to make sure i was okay...no safewords

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RE: Safe words - 11/7/2007 7:37:05 PM

slavegirljoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

i could simply say "Daddy????" in that tone and he would check on me to make sure i was okay...no safewords

i'm the same, cherry. i don't use a safeword. i doubt i would even know when to use it, if i had one. i know that my Master knows when to give Himself a safeword. He is a 'watchful sadist' and He knows my responses better than i do. He knows when to adjust what He's doing, either up or down, and when to stop all together.

i don't like having to think when my Master is 'using and abusing' me. If i had to think about when i should use a safeword, it would take away so much of what i get out of my experience that it would lose most, if not all, of the pleasure i get from it.

On top of that, i am often gagged, because i tend to be very noisy and the neighbors could become easily concerned by my screams. It's pretty much impossible for me to say anything, including a safeword, with a gag in my mouth.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

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RE: Safe words - 11/7/2007 7:43:21 PM

MissSCD

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We do not use them; however, I watch his reactions. Live, public scening is different. When you are someone's home, and there is energy envolved from others, then things can get out of hand.
I have enough confidence now in myself not to get involved in a situation where I am not in total control of my slave.

Regards, MissSCD

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RE: Safe words - 11/7/2007 8:46:19 PM

daddyncherry

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

i could simply say "Daddy????" in that tone and he would check on me to make sure i was okay...no safewords

i'm the same, cherry. i don't use a safeword. i doubt i would even know when to use it, if i had one. i know that my Master knows when to give Himself a safeword. He is a 'watchful sadist' and He knows my responses better than i do. He knows when to adjust what He's doing, either up or down, and when to stop all together.

i don't like having to think when my Master is 'using and abusing' me. If i had to think about when i should use a safeword, it would take away so much of what i get out of my experience that it would lose most, if not all, of the pleasure i get from it.

On top of that, i am often gagged, because i tend to be very noisy and the neighbors could become easily concerned by my screams. It's pretty much impossible for me to say anything, including a safeword, with a gag in my mouth.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

i am with you on the not thinking part...kind of with the pain and everything my thoughts wouldn't form too well anyway and most likely i wouldn't even remember what the word was. "Daddy???" though comes out of my mouth without any thought what so ever.(because it is also what i plead when i am asking to cum...he understands at that point that i am not super coherant and that is about the most i can muster...So he would ask me if i wanted to cum and i could then try to explain the nature of my issue)

He also, like your Master, is watchful of me.

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RE: Safe words - 11/7/2007 8:51:28 PM

FangsNfeet

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We don't use any safe words. My sub is the type who does not and can not speak in a scene. All I can do is pay attention to her hands, breathing, and response to certain stimuly such as cold to let me know she is still with me.

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RE: Safe words - 11/8/2007 12:15:22 AM

JoyfulMistress

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Safewords were created to give that opportunity to withdraw consent.
They have certainly been infused by th community with powers they don't have and never could.
They will not all by their lonesome make anything safe.
They will not serve as a substitute for a Top having the skill to read a body for distress
They cannot undo damage already done but they can prevent additional damage.
They cannot force someone to stop the scene
They can alert educated observers to the fact that the Top has lost their flippin mind. LOL
They are not lifejackets they are the ships radio
They don't save you, they alert the authorities that you are in peril.
They are the sailor's equivolent of a MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY on the radio
Or maybe a flaregun. LOL
They are a single tool for communication amoung many possible tools for communication.

very well put and I have to share I couldn't help but laugh on the flaregun comment as well
thanks for the giggle
Joy

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RE: Safe words - 11/8/2007 5:19:16 AM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

We don't use any safe words. My sub is the type who does not and can not speak in a scene. All I can do is pay attention to her hands, breathing, and response to certain stimuly such as cold to let me know she is still with me.

I'm just curious... from the time your scene begins (tying her up, perhaps?) to the time your scene ends, your submissive is unable to communicate? Is that a prohibition you place upon her, or an inability that strikes her at the outset?

Has she never encountered "bad pain" (unintentional, out of place, not part of the scene itself) that has interfered with her headspace, and snapped out of wherever she goes? I would have guessed that would happen to almost everyone given enough time.

John

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RE: Safe words - 11/8/2007 6:16:25 AM

juliaoceania

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FR

When we first started playing together I was extremely cognizant of my safeword and if I needed to use it. He encouraged the use if I needed it. It was a tool to aid him in knowing what was going on. I still have a safeword. I would use it if necessary, but we have less need for it. For one, he is better at gauging my reactions to his ministrations; for another, I am not reliable in using it because I have an inability to stop him the way I used to be able to. I cannot say "red" to stop him while I am in subspace.

Just because I cannot be relied upon to use a safeword because of how I respond to subspace sometimes does not mean I do not have a safeword anymore, I do. If I said it he would stop. It is still a tool we may employ one day.

As for the debate of who is in control because of a tool that the dom arms the sub with to aid them in BDSM play, personally I find the assertion that the sub is control to be laughable. I suppose I feel lucky he does not put his domly pride before a little tool that may help me remain safe. If that tool is not effective for others, fine. If others think it messes with their domly mojo to have a safeword, I really do not care. I used to find it offensive that people would assume all sorts of things about those who use safewords, and then I realized something, I just do not care about other people's opinions about how I live my life anyways. The most important opinion in the world to me is my own. I see the value of safewords, who cares what the rest of ya think

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RE: Safe words - 11/8/2007 6:55:28 AM

OnyxDelphi

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So there's this guy I don't like too well, and his name is "Kyle." So if my slave ever yells his name during one of our sessions, there better be a fucking problem.

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RE: Safe words - 11/8/2007 8:01:37 AM

RRafe

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Let's not forget that Tops have safewords too.

The one I use for drama stoppage is "princess"

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RE: Safe words - 11/8/2007 4:51:28 PM

FangsNfeet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

I'm just curious... from the time your scene begins (tying her up, perhaps?) to the time your scene ends, your submissive is unable to communicate?

She just does not like to talk. She'll ramble with Yes, No, moan and cry but that's about it.

quote:

Is that a prohibition you place upon her, or an inability that strikes her at the outset?

She chooses not to speak unless I tell and sometimes force her to say something.

quote:

Has she never encountered "bad pain" (unintentional, out of place, not part of the scene itself) that has interfered with her headspace, and snapped out of wherever she goes?

Right before falling into Sub Space, a neighbor knocked at our door. Other than that, the answer is no. While she is in Sub Space, I guess use a hot fire poker or saying a different name on purpose might snap her out. Any "Bad Pain" that happens has only caused her to fall deeper in trance. I keep cold ice on the side. If she has not shiver nor flentch of a response, then I go into after care.

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RE: Safe words - 11/8/2007 4:57:31 PM

Rover

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Wow.

John

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RE: Safe words - 11/8/2007 5:03:17 PM

MadRabbit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

mistoferin
I'm not trying to pick on you but I have to say that it is not direct communication. Shouting out a color gives no indication of what is wrong. About 5 years ago I was at a party and I wasn't really paying much attention to the scene that was going on in the corner. Suddenly the submissive on the cross started frantically screaming red.....just as she'd been told to and conditioned to do. That part was great, the scene stopped immediately and those attending raced to get her down. The problem was that she didn't stop screaming red. Everyone rushed to her aid and no one could determine what the problem was. This went on for a full 5 minutes at least with a crowd of people now trying to help. It was a complete and utter clusterfuck. The problem, as it turned out, was that she was writhing so hard that she ruptured a disc in her back. Now here are all these people turning her all different ways trying to find an injury. She did what she was conditioned to do and in her moment of agony and crisis she could not see clear to stop saying red long enough to help the helpers. She could have indeed been further injured by their efforts. All of it could have been avoided had she screamed OMG my back, my back...somethings's wrong.

From this thread:http://www.collarchat.com/m_489399/mpage_1/tm.htm

On some after thought, this example doesn't quite add up for me logically as something that shows the inherent danger in using safewords.

Because her inability to communicate logically seems to be caused by her state of agony and crisis and not because of her "conditioning" to use a safeword.

There is no evidence here, besides your opinion and conjecture, that if she hadn't had a safeword, she would still have been in a clear frame of mind to effectively communicate what was wrong.

Perhaps instead of screaming "RED" over and over again, she simply would have just been screaming?

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RE: Safe words - 11/8/2007 10:04:07 PM

phedre81

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As a newbie to bdsm and this site, I find this topic fascinating.

My partner and I use safewords--red and yellow. They are a means of communicating, and we began using them the first time we engaged in any 'play' that involved begging--both of us are still fairly vanilla, still learning, and before she elicited pleas for me to stop, she wanted to know that I had a word that REALLY indicated I was no longer consenting, just so we both knew I really WAS consenting--we both just enjoyed the begging her to stop aspect.

When I met several months ago with a domme who's been in the scene for about 15 years, we used the same traffic light safewords. Her philosophy on the matter was that I was expected to use a safe word if I felt that I needed to at any time, but that it was not her intent to ever push me so far that I needed to for any reason (I never got the impression from her that she wasn't going to stop until I safeworded--I would not consider that particularly 'safe' play). She also consistently asked me what my pain level was on a scale from 1-10 (though as I got into subspace, I DID have a hard time answering that)--since we didn't know each other particularly well, and she was my very first experience in BDSM at all, it was helpful to have clear ways of communicating.

That being said, with the domme I met with, and with my current partner, I feel quite confident that a serious tone and the words, "hold on, please stop a second" so that I could communicate something was actually wrong would have been just as effective (if not more so) than any safe word.

Being new, I've been rather taken with the idea of safe words, convinced they are absolutely essential to safe play. And yet, my own experience fits with what those on here have said--I think they aren't particularly necessary, and, at least in my experiences, using normal language is more communicative, without breaking the TPE dynamic.

I know my partner would stop if I said "red." What's interesting is, I also know she would stop if I said, "Wait, I need a second."

Thanks for the great reading this thread has been!!

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RE: Safe words - 11/8/2007 10:20:21 PM

masterssweet1

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< Message edited by masterssweet1 -- 11/8/2007 10:22:03 PM >

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RE: Safe words - 11/8/2007 10:35:46 PM

MstrssScarlet

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Ok, I'll confess right up front that I haven't read all of the posts here. 7 pages so far? Yikes! Just wanted to share a couple of things that happened at a recent private party I had.
My collared sub is EXTREMELY ticklish, so of course it's my favorite torture. A friend of mine, a female switch, was helping me tickle him and we were going at him from opposite sides while he was in suspension cuffs and blindfolded (feet on the ground). Suddenly he yelled "help!" or something along those lines. He wasn't really in any distress, but I hesitated for a moment. Then I loudly stated "That's not a safeword!" and continued to torture him. We all started laughing and he told me later that he couldn't believe that I had actually hesitated. I'm relentless with him, but know when to stop because we have played together so much. We still laugh about it.
Later in the evening, I was playing with someone new to the scene. I had only played with him twice before and he was coming back for the third time. He told me that I was the only one he trusted. I was extremely flattered. I already knew that he was an absolute pain slut and very naturally fell into subspace very quickly. I'd had to stop the play the previous two times. I pulled out my singletail and was going at it. The dungeon was dimly lit and he was wearing a pair of very tight black spandex briefs and a body harness. I was concerned that I might not see any wraps with the lighting so I stopped to check on him a couple of times. Early on I told him to let me know if I strayed above or below the briefs. This time he stopped the play with a simple "I think I've had about enough." As I was letting him down, I inspected him closely and to my horror saw that I had wrapped around the right side twice. I was swinging so hard that the welts were pretty bad. I immediately apologized and asked him why he didn't say something. His reply? "Well, you didn't say anything about coming around the front - only about hitting too high or too low." So now I know I have to be very, VERY specific with him and keep the lighting up! He is fine by the way. I put some antiseptic on the welts immediately just in case (I came very close to breaking the skin) and then some ice.
Mistress Scarlet

< Message edited by MstrssScarlet -- 11/8/2007 10:42:57 PM >

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