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RE: Commitment in the lifestyle - 11/10/2007 7:42:54 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: asubmissiveheart

I disagree, this is the place to speak about relationships.
This is a BDSM message board.
Prinsexx did not name names or give any personal information.

I appreciate hearing stories like this, this is how we learn and this is how we grow.

Don't try to stiffle people, if you don't want to read it, don't read it.

Prinsexx had a right to post this, and I am glad she did.

Committment is also very important to me Prinsexx, without a solid committment,
I don't feel I am in a relationship.


did you read the other 3 paragraphs i wrote or just the one line you did not like? and the fact is....she could have asked the question without giving the email...she was hurt and posted a private message on an open board...that is airing dirty laundry...

edited to add: it would have been even better if she had told us what had happened, and written to us, rather than copying and pasting her anger at him...but i am selfish in that manner..


< Message edited by chellekitty -- 11/10/2007 7:47:06 AM >

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to asubmissiveheart)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Commitment in the lifestyle - 11/10/2007 7:53:27 AM   
LadyIce


Posts: 406
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		No one knows who the email is from, so why in the sam hill can't she post it?
Who died and left you in charge here?
We have moderators here and Prinsexx is a big girl, stop trying to regulate other people and
regulate yourself.

< Message edited by LadyIce -- 11/10/2007 7:54:48 AM >

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Commitment in the lifestyle - 11/10/2007 7:57:56 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

Commitment is something that has to develop and grow between two people. i don't think committment is owed us for the things we enage ourselves in with our partner. This is the feeling i get from prinsexx, that she got involved and did some things with this dom which, she felt would lead him to committment, instead of feeling the security of the committment and then letting go and getting herself involved in these things.  If i do things without feeling that solid committment i can't turn around and call dirty pool from the dom  because i have to take responsibility for my own actions.  He doesn't owe me because i gave myself to him.  Personally this is where i think a lot of relationships go off track because it's a male vs female way of thinking.  Dom pushes sub to do (xyz) he enjoys himself, sub gives dom (xyz) and feels he then must feel committed to her to  have taken (xyz) - hope i am making sense, it's late and i am tired... feel like i am repeating myself lol


Nicely said, velvetears.  This same thing can be seen in the vanilla arena where you see guys pushing the girl to have sex because he enjoys it and does not necessarily see sex as carrying the same emotional ties and commitment that many (note that I did not say all) women do.  It happens in D/s and BDSM play too...a submissive states that she likes to do X, Y, and Z and does not specify that it has to be with a dominant that she is committed to in a long-term relationship.  So then the dominant pushes her to do X, Y, and Z and she does...enthusiastically and with gusto...and then she is disappointed because he doesn't feel committed to her because...even though she did not make it clear that she expects commitment with doing X, Y, and Z...she thought that, given the types of behavior that X, Y, and Z are, he would KNOW that.  

Funny...and I know it gets stated here a lot...but some honest communication about commitment and what certain actions and words mean within the context of whatever it is you are building would seem to be helpful in most D/s encounters from the beginning.

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Commitment in the lifestyle - 11/10/2007 8:30:40 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		*sigh* When I read the OP, what struck me the most (or the hardest) was the wondering if a)this was about reciprocity (I commit to you, so you must commit to me) or b) this was about finding someone who supposedly would work and then finding out that right now, at this moment, the gentleman you were finding that person for just wasn't ready.

Either way, all the way through I kept thinking that if it's A, then my thoughts are that committment doesn't come in a prescribed time and space for everyone. One person may understand/feel their level of committment far earlier than the other...or it may never happen, but I can say for certain that if the person who has made the committment walks away from the person who can't yet, then it's a certainty that he or she will never know committment...and if that person walks away that easily, just how committed were they in the first place.

I ask that not to attack, but because committment/feelings/etc were very one-sided at the beginning of the relationship I am in. I was the one who understood the committment I was making before he did - or maybe I was just the one to give voice to it first. I wanted it. It was important to me. And because I committed, even when I doubted, I still didn't walk away. Eventually, with patience and no pushing on my part, he came to his own conclusions regarding this relationship. I was lucky in that he chose to commit to me as well. However, in the meantime, I kept things calm inside me by realizing that my attachment, dedication, committment to him was my choice - not his...and that he'd make his own choice when he was ready - either to stay or to go. Oh yea...and along the way, we both came to love. How cool is THAT? Anyway, I digress...

If it was B, then my thoughts were that sometimes, even when everything seems right, it's all wrong. And I'd have either moved on or remained friends with the person/couple I was bringing in until things were right. So, was it disappointment over your choice not being acknowledged that turned things sour? My Master met someone two years ago. He wanted me to meet her right away. I wasn't ready for that. I knew about her and she knew about me, but he worked with me and with her while keeping us informed of the other until he could bring us together - when WE were ready. If it'd have happened back then, I'm not sure what the outcome would have been - although I can say that from my point of view, it probably wouldn't have been pretty (I won't speak to her point of view). He waited and recently brought us together. Despite both of us swearing silently (and sometimes not so silently) we'd never get along with the other, we're developing a wonderful friendship (which we are in awe of to say the least).

I'm just wondering if patience might not have kept a loving relationship together AND earned that other couple over time.

juliet

(in reply to shootingstar67)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Commitment in the lifestyle - 11/10/2007 10:03:29 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx


My question is: how important is commitment in a bdsm relationship??




It depends.

I'm as commited as the relationship demands to work at the time. If I'm *saying* I'm commited  but not behaving as though I am, questions need to be asked.

Often people simply have mismatched ideas of commitment because they don't know each other well enough; they commit to things in words before they've had time to make entirely grounded judgements on whether it's viable or not.

People also sometimes say...I'm not ready for a commited relationship*....when they actually are saying * I'm not interested in a commited relationship with you*.

agirl







(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Commitment in the lifestyle - 11/10/2007 11:36:48 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty


no one else has said it, so i will....darling, this is dirtly laundry that has no place in this public forums...




I didn't give names. If is is dirty laundry to you then so be it. But given the huge amount of private email I have already received I do not feel the need for private email from you chelle. You do not moderate the board.
I am not the only one that uses specifics about my private interactions. I seem to remember you aired one about a total emersion weekend AND named names. And i was garacious enough to respond to you. I believe i was the only one who did.
All I feel is that all your posts are in opposition not only to me but simply as the way you are. And i do not find opoosition supportive.
But thank you for reading my OP anyway.
My feeling is that if i had simply asked how important is commitment then the thread would have not gathered as much interest, involvemnt and activity that it has, You will not stop me posting chelle....only a Moderator can advise that i do not.

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Commitment in the lifestyle - 11/10/2007 12:18:30 PM   
Aceton


Posts: 97
Joined: 9/2/2007
Status: offline 		The day somebody airs clean laundry around here is the day I'll fall off my old rocking chair...

Like the others said, get over it. It's a public board, you can say what you want as long as it's within the TOS.

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Commitment in the lifestyle - 11/10/2007 12:23:04 PM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		i didn't say stop posting...i jeeeze...i said that...what followed this
quote:


this is what I emailed my so-called Dom this morning:

was dirty laundry...you could have written us your feelings on the subject...you could have written an entire book on the encounter...what you posted was a private email to him....that is dirty laundry...

yes...i posted on my experiences....but i did not post my private emails concerning the experiences...they exist....they were much more intimate...

chelle...who really wishes people would stop reading what she does not write

edited to add: i said it out of concern....if you want your dirty knickers out there for all to see, far be it from me to stop you from waving them

< Message edited by chellekitty -- 11/10/2007 12:24:11 PM >

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Commitment in the lifestyle - 11/10/2007 12:30:00 PM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

i didn't say stop posting...i jeeeze...i said that...what followed this
quote:


this is what I emailed my so-called Dom this morning:

was dirty laundry...you could have written us your feelings on the subject...you could have written an entire book on the encounter...what you posted was a private email to him....that is dirty laundry...

yes...i posted on my experiences....but i did not post my private emails concerning the experiences...they exist....they were much more intimate...

chelle...who really wishes people would stop reading what she does not write

edited to add: i said it out of concern....if you want your dirty knickers out there for all to see, far be it from me to stop you from waving them


So if she had posted the same thing but said these are my thoughts instead of posting it as an email you would be ok with that? Really what you have to learn is that it is not the format that makes it "dirty laundry" but content. Why is it ok for you to post intimate details of events that you have attended but it is not ok for others to post their thoughts here.

I think you need to learn to not jump to conclusions so quickly. As others have stated here, when you become a Moderator then you can tell people what they can and cannot post. Until that time, if a post is within the TOS then it is acceptable for someone to post it. You might not like it. If that is the case move on.

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Commitment in the lifestyle - 11/10/2007 12:59:26 PM   
Domisub111


Posts: 14
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		Consider it as any relationship. The initial experiences can be wow. But many want more. And if the 2 of you can become a regular item and form a relationship, great! After all, you've got one thing in common. Can you build on the rest?

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Commitment in the lifestyle - 11/10/2007 1:09:10 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		If the Dirty Laundry closed, the forums would too. If other people post personal stuff, it's their choice; I might not fancy doing it myself, but I certainly don't think that it *has no place on this public forum*.

A goodly amount of questions, problems and venting show people's mucky pants.

agirl

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Commitment in the lifestyle - 11/10/2007 4:34:12 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		I didn;t out him by name. I didn't shoot anyone down in flames. I merely needed, yes, needed to show, that behind what might appear to be a fixexd exterior, a person with experience in the lifestyle, someone, that usually hangs it together quite well and serves it, be it dinner, a well externaliised fantasy, a body as a vessel for pleasure and much much more...I needed help. I have been gratefula and read every post. They have all enabled me to have a settled day knowing that no, I wasn;t right and no, I wasn't wrong, but the dynamic was.
I actualy feel when he said he wasn't ready to commit, that he meant he wasn't ready to commit to me, which is in reality what it boiled down to.
That doesn't make me uncommitable to, ...excuse the phrase, and it doesn't make him wrong for being unable. not ready, not willing or any other negative expression of can't. won't. But the other issue is that he is a sadist and I am a masochist. I had listened the night before to his confessions of how he wnats to hurt, both physically and emotionally and psychologically, those he gets emotionally involved with.I instinctually knew he wold do what he did but I pushed my own limits of submission until I got the inevitable.
I have been chatting and emailing a new Dom and he is driving quite a few miles to meet me on Thursday. He understand how the Dom/sub relationship is about an equality of need fulfilment. Si I have moved on far more rapidly than I would h\ve done had I not had YOU, yes shouting, YOU who have responded and given me guidance. I am humbled in the face of those who have been there before me, I do learn and take on board those who have detached wisdom. It's hard being one whom other's seem to think shold have it sussed. It triggers rejection in others but thta's not indeed that's not want I need. I need the same as we all need surely and that is for my cross over of pain and pleasure to be acceptable.
So thankyou.......you know who you are......

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Commitment in the lifestyle - 11/10/2007 5:08:21 PM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		Relationships work when there are shared goals.  Those goals may be limited to a particular scene or event.  A relationship between play partners or even casual partners will work when the goals of the parties involved are in synch.  Two do not need to be equally yoked as long as they are pulling in the same direction. 

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Commitment in the lifestyle - 11/10/2007 5:11:16 PM   
asubmissiveheart


Posts: 462
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline 		Again chelle, as long as she did not give anyone's name, it is not against TOS.
chelle does not make the rules here, the owners and moderators of collarme make the
rules.
If chelle wants to moderate and run her own BDSM message boards she needs to create one.
You don't run this one.

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Commitment in the lifestyle - 11/10/2007 5:40:29 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		chelle this is some of what you wrote:
while Merc and beth were attending Folsom Fringe and Folsom Street Fair i was at Beyond Vanilla....and though i have mentioned it in numerous places across the boards, i think i am finally ready to put my thoughts together in one place....

i'll spare you the boring parts .........

friday night...first puppy mosh pit ever...and omg...even though it was a bit dangerous for this kitty, i held my own...and apparently some young pup bitches don't know that kitty's have claws cause while they had a 5 way tug going with Vi Johnson's canine's toy, i saw my opportunity and pounced on the toy and the bitch started growling at me and biting at me...
..and i'll admit, i didn't do the safest thing, after the bar closed, i played with a man i met in the bar, in his hotel room who was also attending the convention...(i later, after the fact, got references on him - and they were excellent, but a little late) And we went back to his room and there was a little spanking and a nipple biting and cock sucking and whole lot of squirting...but through out all of it he talked (side note: i LOVE his voice)...and it was wonderful...he tore down every preconceived notion i had, because he was able to convince me that, that whatever he said I was - was fucking hot to him, and when I agreed with him, i could see how hot he got, just from the look in his eyes..

the other thing was this amazing skill he had - the ability to see when i was pulling back...not just being coy or cute or sexy...and to refocus my energy to his...it was just amazing and awesome and just...wow....

so umm yea, in summary...i am glad i could stop feeding myself sugar coated bullshit on this topic...i don't know if this seems small to anyone else...but this is huge to me... left....in 45 minutes he changed my life...

and then the next morning...i got up...got my leg branded...which i was finally able to relate to another sensation...after the first 3 strokes...approximately 12 seconds of branding with an electro cautery pen (this one was battery operated, not disposable) the endorphins were going good and the pain input signals were so screwy that it felt, to me, just like a cutting done with a scapel, which i have had done...with absolutely no heat sensation...which is interesting because from what i have been told, that is what it feels like from the top side too...

and i just spent the whole rest of the weekend talking to people from various walks of bdsm and leather lifestyles...lots of animal people...puppies and kitties, a couple of wolves, one fox and one snake....i found it interesting though that i am much more at home surrounded by gay leather men and leather dykes than hetro's at any given moment....someone suggested that it is because the gay leathermen thrive on order and rules....i don't know?

oh and my second puppy mosh pit? i think the most interesting part was when one of the wolves challenged someone who injured him the day before after i left...and then he got bumped on his injury and all those stupid tame pups tried to comfort him and were nuzzling that wild wolf and licking him trying to make him feel better, and i could hear him making this noise that said, get the fuck away, and i did, and all i could think was....are they crazy?...they are gonna get eaten...its very interesting to be able to be an animal and watch animal interactions at the same time....i recomend it to anyone at anytime lol...but not something a whole lot of people can achieve...

sunday night, i got to spend about an hour and a half with Vi Johnson in her hotel room...we talked about lots of things....but the one thing i will never forget was when she draped a piece of leather that was about 10 feet long and 1 foot wide, covered with run pins that no longer fit on her vest, and her vest was covered...over my shoulder...and she shared her history with me...it was a heavy, powerful responsibility...

sorry...there were no cameras allowed, so all you voyuers will have to go unsatisfied from my thread....

chelle...

but I did reply chelle, graciouisly as I thought you had changed even though it took airing and outing your experiences..... ..

(in reply to asubmissiveheart)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Commitment in the lifestyle - 11/10/2007 10:29:05 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Mmm thanks for reposting that, I totally missed that post and it is lovely.

There's a rather large difference between posting a watercolor about a day in your life and posting a blood spattered sheet- even blood spatter is allowed and encouraged if the perception of the poster is that they genuinely seek to understand and grow from the experience.

I still want answers to my questions- give me a timeline over the past six months leading up to today of all the times you've made and ended commitments.  You're already talking seriously to other doms? 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Commitment in the lifestyle - 11/11/2007 12:02:43 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		so you think that was like what you posted? there was nothing dirty about what i posted...

oh and i said nothing about outing anyone...i am talking about asking for advice without giving the grimey details that are better left in private...my post was about my experience, not about asking for advice...

i am not trying to moderate the boards, i am trying to help...actually at this point, i am not trying to help...i am trying to explain how i was trying to help...i don't care anymore since you obviously think i am something i am not...

go ahead...post all the details of your private life on the boards you want....keep repeating the same mistakes over and over...keep doing what is obviously not working...it is your life to mess up after all...

and for the sake of this post, will people please leave me out of the rest of it...

chelle


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Commitment in the lifestyle - 11/11/2007 12:30:02 AM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
Status: offline 		Boy am I a late comer to this tread.

Must have my head up my arse.. LOL

Honestly as I have said.. I am so happy and proud of you. Any one who will sit back, and not want even the slightest of friendship or realtionship is not going to be a good match for you at this point in your journey. From what we have discussed he is a real masocist and that goes beyond the phsyical. Who really needs that in thier life?

I feel, ( just my opinion here ) that the one sided email you posted is fine and acceptable. You had already poured your heart out, it was to the point and explained your feelings perfectly. It was raw and painful.. why should you try to summerize it, or do it again when posting what you had summed it up so well.

Personaly I have learned not to post *anything* of a personal nature on this board. But to those brave souls who continue... you are far braver then I.

I am glad you got the support you needed hun.

Your Dear Friend across the Pond.

Gwyn



_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Commitment in the lifestyle - 11/11/2007 12:32:30 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I still want answers to my questions- give me a timeline over the past six months leading up to today of all the times you've made and ended commitments.  You're already talking seriously to other doms? 


Dear LA
Over the past six months there has only been the one Dom whom I posted the email about. Prior to that I stayed 'committed' to a Dom for four years. I took a rest break of six months as I felt and believed this was the right amount of time. I did not shut down on friends,including oher Dom(mme)s after my ass by text or chat. I interacted and communicated with them to learn, to exchange and run off some of the 'drop' I had felt from the dynamic that had lasted that 4 years.

The Dom in question that I emailed about in the opening thread I also wrote about here and it got hailed as a love story. He asked for a working relationship to be set up between us as the initial bdsm was initated. After two weeks he offered his apartment as a working space, asked me to advertise for clients from there and negotiated terms with me. I really think that business deals require strict and foreseeable commitment as they involve others and indeed would have included others coming to me in need of advice and counselling/therapy. I saw it as generous but I would have paid him what I knew was a standard proportion of my fee for the use of his centrally located apartment..
What emerged was that he increasingly pulled back on his 'commitment' to our bdsm relationship once the business arrangement was verbally put in place. Last week which would have been 5 weeks into the relationship as a whole he seemed to be saying that he reserved the right to ask me to leave after I had taken his bag back, after he had offerred, indeed insisted I had a glass of wine. It was late and safer that I stayed.

Even yesterday after I had made it clear I wanted no more bdsm interaction he asked by text if I sill wanted to work from there. I said the working/business relationship could only work if I could trust that he would not ask me to leave if my clients were there. He text back and said it gave him the option to ask me to leave at any time.

That was clearly ridiculous, would have been bad for my business and it was HIM reasserting the Dom/s dynamic to get what he wanted from me finanicially. Indeed it was using my position as a submissive.

Now the Dom I am seeing on Thursday has been completely supportive throughout by chat. I have indeed simply been chatting to him about private parties/ gaherings. We had not hinted at there being any expectations of a D/s dynamic between us yet. he is aware because I have told him that I feel emotional hurt, that I feel dropped, used and indeed I have also explained how quickly and how rapidly my emotions get involved and that nothing works for me without cmmitment to it happening.

That is how I do things; i commit to a goal and deadlines and results and work psychologically on myself with what I call future thinking. Otherwise the past, as real as I allow it to have a hold over me, in reality has no more hold over me then an envisioned future.


< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 11/11/2007 12:43:37 AM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Commitment in the lifestyle - 11/11/2007 12:52:29 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd


Personaly I have learned not to post *anything* of a personal nature on this board. But to those brave souls who continue... you are far braver then I.




Yes but is it really possible to get the thread moving, to get involvement if it's just couched as theoretical. I had done it like that before and been told that if I had a therapist like you I would tell you and others to go and get fucked,or words to that effect.
I don't go out of my way to stir uo defensiveness on the forums but it surely seems to hit raw nerves in some.
You have been magically supportive by email. You gwyn have hard limits. Andso do  I.
Actually what I leraned from this is that it simply doesn't work to mix business with pleasure and whilst I had explicitly agreed to make myself available ashis submissive, I dd not and will not agree to make myself available as his meal ticket via my professional role.
If I felt he understood even the concept of commitment it would have been easier emotionally to have stayed the course but the end game was that his sadistic tendency waouls have and had started to exert itself over into all areas of my life.

From your friend far too many miles away.
Prinnie



(in reply to Gwynvyd)
Profile   Post #: 60
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