slaveluci
Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
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Hello LaT,
Took me a couple days to get back to this thread as I had to drive from AR back to WV for a couple days and haven't been on much at all. I enjoyed your post and wanted to respond back even though it is a bit later . So here goes:
quote:
ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
IF indeed, a person's faith is so personal and so fragile that it cannot withstand a debate where opposing points of view are brought to the table without it being considered an attack, then why put it into a public venue?
I will cheerfully debate this issue with anyone. Sure, it may get passionate. Why can't it? Just because it is ohhhh "religioun" and somehow should be protected from negative words, passionate debate?
I think you make a valid point here though I pretty much feel differently. I happen to believe that a person's personal religious/spiritual beliefs are valid simply because they hold them. One's sacred beliefs should be respected until such point as they try to force them onto me. By force, I don't mean sharing them or discussing them. Forcing them on me means they discount my own beliefs and try to make me replace mine with theirs. Anything short of that doesn't offend me in the least no matter how I view their beliefs.
As far as a debate being seen as an attack, I don't feel it should be. I have never been the one to initiate discussion of my spiritual beliefs in a public venue. My discussion of such has always been in response to someone attacking them FIRST. To come to a public venue (especially one of a sexual nature such as CM) and start "preaching" is ludicrous indeed, in my opinion. But, to be minding my own business here and see (yet again) another tiresome attack thread on Christians - yup, I chime in in "defense." I don't see that as making my beliefs "fragile" or making me unable to have an intelligent debate about them. That's very, very rarely ever the attacker's intent. It's usually to dismiss and mock. My beliefs are exactly the opposite of fragile. That's why I then feel the desire to speak up in my beliefs' defense.
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It is okay to debate which whip material is better, bullhide or kangaroo, but to bring the same type of discussion style to the subject of religioun is instantly a terrible thing? I can passionately say why I dislike bullhide but I cannot passionately say why I dislike modern day christianity? I can say I prefer kangaroo to your bullhide, and why but I cannot give the same opinions on religioun?
While your point is well taken, to me it's not comparing anything even remotely comparable. A person's deeply held, sacred world views/beliefs mean quite a bit more than the material a whip is made of. I don't like it when people badmouth my favorite books, music, movies, or whips. Their words don't cut as deeply, however, as they would if they were to badmouth my mother, my physical appearance or my God. There's a huge difference there to me at least. Some things you don't want to hear. Some are just hurtful and unnecessary. Tearing down someone else's beliefs simply because I don't share them is, to me, one of those unnecessary things. It works both ways, in my opinion. You seem to be saying that people are often just too sensitive over their religious/spiritual beliefs and they shouldn't be so fragile when attacked about them. They shouldn't let their very "core" be threatened over a dissenting opinion. Well, I see your point. But, for some of us, those beliefs ARE our core. I can see the opposing view and say why does someone who feels derision for my beliefs feel so empty at their own core that they have to shred what I hold sacred? It goes both ways.
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The thing is this, I don't feel personally attacked regardless of subject. Most people that covet a bullhide whip are not going to feel personally attacked if I say, "wow, I tried that once and thought it was shit" BUT, if you use the very same style of debate on religioun you are soooooooo guaranteed to get undies bunched and someone will inevitably take a condesending tone and go all "one true wayish" trying to play the "I know my way is better than yours so somehow, I am better than you" attitude Again, dissing my favorite toy doesn't begin to compare to mocking my deity. Way different for me. And I know that I personally have never been guilty of being "one true wayish" or "superior" in my words about my spiritual beliefs. I honor everyone's beliefs no matter how little I share them. I don't recall seeing much behavior of that ilk around here from those identifying as Christians. I don't recall reading them saying (very often if at all) that anyone who didn't share their beliefs was destined to burn for eternity though I have seen much being said negatively toward them for what they believe.
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Do I personally think that alot of people following alot of faiths have blinders on? Why yes I do! Do I think they are terrible people or idiots for it, no. Mislead perhaps. Those are my beliefs. I honestly don't care if anyone else agrees with me. It is my own personal thing
Just as it could be my belief that those who don't believe as I do are seriously mislead as you say. Doesn't matter. To each her own.
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All of that being said, it really doesn't matter does it? I will go on about my way and everyone else is going to go on about theirs. I just simply, find it rather interesting, that religioun is one of the few subjects that cannot be discussed and debated without people taking it all personal and getting upset, feeling attacked
And again, I will say it should be very obvious why that is. We're not discussing our favorite meal, book, album, place to vacation, etc. When we attempt to discussion religion, for those who hold such beliefs, it is much more serious than discussing trivial subjects such as that. Of course people are going to be sensitive. If, for instance, you had had an abortion and then the subject comes up on these forums, it's probably going to strike a nerve if someone says anyone who has had an abortion is a murderer, don't you think? Why would that cause someone to feel attacked? I think it's obvious why.
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If you honestly believe down to your core, that what you believe in, is correct. That it really is the One True Way, it shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks
Indeed. And, to me, it doesn't.
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There is no reason to be upset
See above. There is reason to be upset. Not that it's going to make me change my deeply held beliefs. But seeing them ridiculed IS reason to feel upset.
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Because you know you are on the right path, regardless of what anyone else believes about you or your faith.......no?
Indeed!
Some good points and tactfully made, LaT. Thanks for the discourse..............luci
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To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin
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