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Government Spying.. - 11/11/2007 7:54:56 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Intelligence deputy to America: Rethink privacy

quote:

The central witness in a California lawsuit against AT&T says the government is vacuuming up billions of e-mails and phone calls as they pass through an AT&T switching station in San Francisco, California.

Mark Klein, a retired AT&T technician, helped connect a device in 2003 that he says diverted and copied onto a government supercomputer every call, e-mail, and Internet site access on AT&T lines.


Is this suggesting that the government is tapping and recording calls/emails universally?  Because, I have to admit, that's more than just a little creepy.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 11/11/2007 7:55:17 PM >
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RE: Government Spying.. - 11/11/2007 7:59:18 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		nope, it is fucking great, because you have to have people listen to it, it is more than we got people  to listen, and the only way that I can see that they can zero in on the people of interest looks like racial profiling. so within a couple supreme court changes this will be put to bed.

Father Bell


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RE: Government Spying.. - 11/11/2007 8:04:36 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		You don't seem to know anything about it.

In reality they used machines to "listen" for key words, in order to narrow things down - and it's all information that's crossing international borders, primarily relating to terrorism.

It's so that they can stop future 9/11 attacks. Some say that's not important, others say it is.

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RE: Government Spying.. - 11/11/2007 8:06:12 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		One thing that concerns me is if they're recording it all.  In the near future, computers will be quite able to interpret a great deal of this data, then scan it for just about anything.  Such a database means that they have dirt on you for anything that they're ever recorded.  They can target individuals if they so chose, or look for certain themes to attack.  They can track down clips of people in this community talking about playing out rape fantascies, about beating, etc.. among many other things.  Civil rights activists that become inconvinient could have the computer scan all their conversations for anything questionable and have them in court for it the next morning.

It's really pretty scary if they have this stuff all recorded.  It wouldn't be hard to imagine totolitarian dynamics emerging from such a record.

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RE: Government Spying.. - 11/11/2007 8:08:26 PM   
dcnovice


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Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

It's so that they can stop future 9/11 attacks. Some say that's not important, others say it is.


I doubt seriously that anyone says preventing another 9/11 is not important. The question is what means we're willing to undertake toward that end.

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it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Government Spying.. - 11/11/2007 8:11:56 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

You don't seem to know anything about it.

In reality they used machines to "listen" for key words, in order to narrow things down - and it's all information that's crossing international borders, primarily relating to terrorism.

It's so that they can stop future 9/11 attacks. Some say that's not important, others say it is.


I know alot about it, I worked on some of the first voice recognition machines for IBM and installed in telephone companies.  In fact you hear them today---

What city and what listing please?

Minneapolis.
Larson.

Did you say Minneapolis?
Yes.
Did you ask for the listing for Larson?
yes.


Try again.

Ron


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Government Spying.. - 11/11/2007 8:34:08 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		Ummmm...

Ottertail
New Jersey

??

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RE: Government Spying.. - 11/11/2007 8:44:33 PM   
EvilGenie


Posts: 1323
Joined: 9/10/2007
From: Morocco and Maine occasionally
Status: offline 		They are not recording it all. There is a building which resembles a shopping mall in stature where a computer nearly that size is housed. This computer scans for keywords used repeatedly by either people speaking internationally or here in the US. It is programmed for terrorist talk key words and others that regard terrorist organizations. These words must be repeatedly detected over a span of time in order for it to red flag the speakers.

Please don't ask where my information is from though I will say that I have one cousin in one organization and one in another. I also paid attention to the information presented when this computer was unveiled years ago from many impartial sources. Frankly they don't give a rat's flying testicle about we boring people out here carrying on conversations, even pervy ones (adults only)!

Be Well,

EG

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RE: Government Spying.. - 11/11/2007 8:58:34 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Intelligence deputy to America: Rethink privacy

quote:

The central witness in a California lawsuit against AT&T says the government is vacuuming up billions of e-mails and phone calls as they pass through an AT&T switching station in San Francisco, California.

Mark Klein, a retired AT&T technician, helped connect a device in 2003 that he says diverted and copied onto a government supercomputer every call, e-mail, and Internet site access on AT&T lines.


Is this suggesting that the government is tapping and recording calls/emails universally? Because, I have to admit, that's more than just a little creepy.

quote:


Is this suggesting that the government is tapping and recording calls/emails universally? Because, I have to admit, that's more than just a little creepy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9aeKF-rOGA

"My name is Mark Klein, I used to be an AT&T technician for 22 years"

"They were copying everything flowing across the Internet cables, the major Internet links between AT&T's network and other company's networks"

"Massive Domestic Dragnet on Everybody in the United States"



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Government Spying.. - 11/11/2007 8:59:50 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:


In reality they used machines to "listen" for key words, in order to narrow things down - and it's all information that's crossing international borders, primarily relating to terrorism.


Enlighten us. How does that work using an optical splitter on the network's backbone?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Government Spying.. - 11/11/2007 9:01:56 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilGenie

They are not recording it all. There is a building which resembles a shopping mall in stature where a computer nearly that size is housed. This computer scans for keywords used repeatedly by either people speaking internationally or here in the US. It is programmed for terrorist talk key words and others that regard terrorist organizations. These words must be repeatedly detected over a span of time in order for it to red flag the speakers.

Please don't ask where my information is from though I will say that I have one cousin in one organization and one in another. I also paid attention to the information presented when this computer was unveiled years ago from many impartial sources. Frankly they don't give a rat's flying testicle about we boring people out here carrying on conversations, even pervy ones (adults only)!

Be Well,

EG



You are not discussing the current program, covered by EFF v. AT&T.

In the current instance, SPLITTERS are placed on the NETWORK BACKBONE, and ALL TRAFFIC copied to US Government and /or US Government Contractors computers for storage and analysis.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to EvilGenie)
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RE: Government Spying.. - 11/11/2007 9:02:58 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		       It all goes through the big filters, Fargle.  Of course, the drug dealers are talking about about 'movies' and 'shoes' and the smart-asses are asking Grandma how her plutoniun garden is doing this year.

      

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Government Spying.. - 11/11/2007 9:10:34 PM   
EvilGenie


Posts: 1323
Joined: 9/10/2007
From: Morocco and Maine occasionally
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilGenie

They are not recording it all. There is a building which resembles a shopping mall in stature where a computer nearly that size is housed. This computer scans for keywords used repeatedly by either people speaking internationally or here in the US. It is programmed for terrorist talk key words and others that regard terrorist organizations. These words must be repeatedly detected over a span of time in order for it to red flag the speakers.

Please don't ask where my information is from though I will say that I have one cousin in one organization and one in another. I also paid attention to the information presented when this computer was unveiled years ago from many impartial sources. Frankly they don't give a rat's flying testicle about we boring people out here carrying on conversations, even pervy ones (adults only)!

Be Well,

EG



You are not discussing the current program, covered by EFF v. AT&T.

In the current instance, SPLITTERS are placed on the NETWORK BACKBONE, and ALL TRAFFIC copied to US Government and /or US Government Contractors computers for storage and analysis.




Yes I know all about the SPLITTERS. However my point still stands that they don't give a flaming whatever what we 'average Joes' are talking about and since I am not a terrorist or criminal they can listen to me and my husband in Morocco (me in the US temporarily) say I love you and speak in Arabic all they want.

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Government Spying.. - 11/11/2007 9:11:15 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		Knowledge is power. The more you know about anything and everything about everyone, the more you have the upper hand. That's how Uncle Sam stays on top.

When you're the ruler or leader over everyone, you have to have an ace in the hole. After all, many always want to bring down number one.

When it comes down to human nature, it's natural to assume we're being spied on. After all, most of us are tempted/curious to spy. Imagine actually having the means to do it 24/7.

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RE: Government Spying.. - 11/11/2007 9:11:38 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Semantic Traffic Analysis uses network technology to consistently capture and analyze all IP data streams.

What part of "ALL" isn't clear?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Government Spying.. - 11/11/2007 9:12:08 PM   
EvilGenie


Posts: 1323
Joined: 9/10/2007
From: Morocco and Maine occasionally
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      It all goes through the big filters, Fargle.  Of course, the drug dealers are talking about about 'movies' and 'shoes' and the smart-asses are asking Grandma how her plutoniun garden is doing this year.

     


Filters yes which work on the same premise as the computer I spoke of. Perhaps I was not clear enough. Anyway Heretic thanks for the laugh. I needed that tonight! 

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RE: Government Spying.. - 11/11/2007 9:12:54 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		You know, every time I hear that, I just wonder.. just what are some common "terrorist key words"?

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RE: Government Spying.. - 11/11/2007 9:13:24 PM   
EvilGenie


Posts: 1323
Joined: 9/10/2007
From: Morocco and Maine occasionally
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Knowledge is power. The more you know about anything and everything about everyone, the more you have the upper hand. That's how Uncle Sam stays on top.

When you're the ruler or leader over everyone, you have to have an ace in the hole. After all, many always want to bring down number one.

When it comes down to human nature, it's natural to assume we're being spied on. After all, most of us are tempted/curious to spy. Imagine actually having the means to do it 24/7.


And let us not forget the large number of 'home grown' who also wish to bring the US down.

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RE: Government Spying.. - 11/11/2007 9:14:12 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilGenie
Yes I know all about the SPLITTERS. However my point still stands that they don't give a flaming whatever what we 'average Joes' are talking about and since I am not a terrorist or criminal they can listen to me and my husband in Morocco (me in the US temporarily) say I love you and speak in Arabic all they want.


The LAW says they need a Warrant. FISA further clarifies the requirement.

There is NO EXECEPTION FOR DOMESTIC USE.

And we're talking about domestic traffic here. *ALL* domestic traffic. That's a LOT of Warrants they didn't have.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Government Spying.. - 11/11/2007 9:15:36 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilGenie

quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Knowledge is power. The more you know about anything and everything about everyone, the more you have the upper hand. That's how Uncle Sam stays on top.

When you're the ruler or leader over everyone, you have to have an ace in the hole. After all, many always want to bring down number one.

When it comes down to human nature, it's natural to assume we're being spied on. After all, most of us are tempted/curious to spy. Imagine actually having the means to do it 24/7.


And let us not forget the large number of 'home grown' who also wish to bring the US down.


I'm not saying surveillance by Law Enforcement is wrong in all cases. Hell, if you can make your case to a court and get a JUDGE to sign a WARRANT, go right ahead.

What's with you being SOFT ON CRIMES COMMITTED BY AT&T, and justifying it with alleged crimes MAYBE caused by other people?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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