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RE: Just out of interest why do you ladies dominate for... - 12/6/2007 10:20:19 AM   
devotedslave78


Posts: 19
Joined: 10/10/2006
Status: offline 		These forums are such a wakeup call to this "community".  In my few years of searching I have met two people who I even considered meeting with, and I did.  

This is the internet folks, a bloody dirty mess - and the BDSM community accents this even more considering the sexual nature.  Accept it for what it is, and sift through it to find that one true person. 

If you are trully out to find someone (and not consider this BDSM adventure as just a means to make money), consider this:  Call me foolish, but in my humble opinion taking up the attitude of "These sad sad blokes string you along until you say RIGHT NO MORE! Pay your deposit" is no way to go about things.  You are only shrinking your already small chances of finding someone worthwhile. 

But heck, I am the kind of person who looses interest if I see a revealing photo before getting to know the person better - either on her profile or through mail.  What pops into my mind is that this person is not responsible.  ...collecting money from strangers to see if they are legit does not strike me as responsible either.

Separating the true people from the fakes?  Again, I don't seem to have too much trouble with that - without even messaging them. 

Just my 2 cents.

< Message edited by devotedslave78 -- 12/6/2007 10:24:58 AM >

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Just out of interest why do you ladies dominate for... - 12/6/2007 11:14:31 AM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave
However, the impression i got from your previous post was that people with antisocial tendencies (bullshitters) more or less deserve to get their physical affection by the hour, and should be glad of it. i don't think that others with sincere intent should fall into that same category just for being less than perfect.


Again it's not a matter of deserving.  I suggest that people who are rude, annoying, aggressive, demanding and fundamentally uninterested in the needs and wants of others should go the pro route and stop harrassing women who have not voluntarily chosen to set up shop as a drive-through McDomme's.  I also suggest that people who do care what their potential partners want and need but who are lacking a partner focus on self-improvement and bettering their social skills, and widen their search to offline venues if possible.  

Why do innocent little um's get cancer and die in horrible pain, while evil, tyrannical dictators are still alive?  Is it about what they deserve?  Nope.  Natural selection is a mother, in all possible metaphorical senses. 

(in reply to petdave)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Just out of interest why do you ladies dominate for... - 12/6/2007 11:19:15 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Those insufferable, arrogant, and fundamentally disturbing/disturbed folks often get screened out by pros, as well.  We aren't McDomme's either!  (I am loving that phrase, can I use it?)

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to Najakcharmer)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Just out of interest why do you ladies dominate for... - 12/6/2007 12:09:31 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: devotedslave78
If you are trully out to find someone (and not consider this BDSM adventure as just a means to make money), consider this:  Call me foolish, but in my humble opinion taking up the attitude of "These sad sad blokes string you along until you say RIGHT NO MORE! Pay your deposit" is no way to go about things.  You are only shrinking your already small chances of finding someone worthwhile.


Going pro is a perfectly reasonable response, if you go about it in a positive way.  I spent some years as a pro domme, and the difference between "client" and "friend" was ALWAYS the choice of the submissive.  If you want the drive-through McDomme's where you can order what you want when you want it, it is available and yes you do have to pay.  If you want an invitation to Munches and community events and chats over coffee to make friends and possibly partners in the lifestyle, that's also available.  Without exception, everyone was able to self-select what worked for them, whether it was taking the time to make a friend or paying for a session.  There was never any need to be rude or angry about asking people to make a choice as to whether they wanted a pro session where they would be able to get their specific needs met immediately, or social time at a Munch or a play party where they would have a chance to meet and get to know people who might enjoy some mutually negotiated play if they hit it off well enough. 

Mutually negotiated play is a) never guaranteed to happen, especially immediately with someone you haven't taken the time to get to know yet, and b) not likely to consist only of the submissive partner's fetish laundry list.  So these options are different enough that self-selection is  simple.  Do you want to get your needs met right now without taking the time to be considerate of another human being's wants and needs, or do you want to take the time to work on getting another human being interested in you, happy to spend time with you, and wanting to play with you?  Your choice, and either one really is okay.  The bullshit up with which I did not put was someone demanding that I serve as their drive-through McDomme's for free with no consideration for what I wanted. 

I don't think that what I want is unreasonable.  What I want is fun and friendship with subbies who are interesting, intelligent, polite and enjoyable to spend social time around and get to know as people - and willing to take the time to do that without being so blinded by their own needs that they literally can't see another human being as anything but an object for their use.  Selfish wankers looking to get what they want with no care, consideration or even interest for the other human being in the equation make lousy play partners and even worse friends.  They are No Fun. 

Worthwhile people will self-select.  People who let their anger and bitterness from the past dominate their life choices in the present rarely have a good outcome, especially when their resentment spills over onto people who have done nothing to deserve it but who are in the same general category.  It's normal, healthy and functional to be angry at people who really are selfish users, and to be firm about not allowing them into your life except under your stated terms.  It's dysfunctional if you decide to be categorically angry at all men or all women, and to build your thorny walls of anger and resentment so high that no one can come in without pain even if they are extending a hand in friendship.

There are some wonderful, beautiful people in the BDSM community and I feel privileged that I have been able to spend time with them as friends and also as play partners, submissives or slaves.   I'm not at all mad at men, or at women, or for that matter at any general category of folks that someone might fall into for reasons other than conscious choice.  I am angry at some behaviors that are rude and inconsiderate, and I do not allow them into my life.  I am angry at the people who have demonstrated those behaviors.  I have limits and boundaries, wants and needs and desires of my own.  I ask that these things be considered and respected by anyone who is asking for my time.  When those boundaries are violated and my friendly request for basic courtesy is ignored, I get mad.  And yes, I think the people who do that are indeed sad blokes, and if I were still willing to do pro work, I would put them firmly into the category of "you must pay for play".  But it's a category they choose for themselves. 

(in reply to devotedslave78)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Just out of interest why do you ladies dominate for... - 12/6/2007 12:41:01 PM   
MistressPav


Posts: 350
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline 		Here's an interesting experiment: 
Collect all the profile pictures of pro-dommes. (not just face shots....full body shots)
Then collect all the pictures of non pro-dommes.  (not just face shots....full body shots)
Look at the pictures.  Compare them.
What differences do you see?
********************************************************************************************

You KNOW you are a loser when:
1. You are dumped by your Real Estate Agent
2. A Pro-Domme won't take you or your money.



_____________________________

Proud Owner of Zubi
(my boy "ToyZ")
Claimed & Collared 9magick#2008

"An it harm none, unless they deserve it, do what ye will." --Scorpio Creed

A- Rh-




(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Just out of interest why do you ladies dominate for... - 12/6/2007 12:44:23 PM   
MsSaskia


Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer
Money is concentrated time and energy.  In some way, in some form, if you want to get from another human being, you will also have to give.  There's an awful lot of "submissive" men (or more properly, bottoms who misrepresent as submissive) out there who are either unable or unwilling or who totally lack the social skills to give a non-pro domme what she wants in a D/s relationship.  Ergo, huzzah for the professionals who fill that niche and keep the folks in this category from having to lie, cheat, mislead or otherwise annoy the hell out of the non professionals to get what they need. 


I was sitting at my desk nodding as I read through that entire post and wanted to cheer in places. 

In addition to all that you said - and I heartily agree with - I'd say that for me, charging money not only allows me to stay in business and keep a roof over my head, but it also clarifies important boundaries for me. 

When I'm playing casually with friends or part-time submissives, I get very wrapped up in what I'm/we're doing and put a lot of myself into it.  It's hard to pull back from that afterwards when we've just been so intimate and gone so far together.  Thoughts like "OK, so where do we go now, emotionally?  Who are we to each other now?" come up and things get complex and, although I've developed ways of working things out, are still more emotionally draining just in terms of making sure all boundaries are clear and everybody's cool with that.  When I'm playing with a lover - someone I've been involved with for some time and expect to be with for some time thereafter - playing is a way of deepening the intimacy and otherwise strengthening the bond we already have.

When I first started playing with clients, I hadn't been playing with lovers long enough to have learned about my own emotional needs from playing.  It took me a couple of years to realize that what the exchange of money does for me is to clarify the boundaries from the outset:  here's exactly who we are to each other, here's the precise beginning and end of our interaction for today, and here's where our expectations of each other begin and end.  Accepting cash means that the scene I'm about to do is not all about me or even half about me, it's not something that's going to change our relationship (unless it's a long-term client, in which case we've had time to work out boundaries), and I'm able to focus on the more technical aspects of a scene without putting so much of my heart into it and feeling drained afterwards because the person I just bonded with is - for all intents and purposes - out of my life. 

I used to wonder how therapists could sit with people, hour after hour, listening to and becoming involved with the deeply emotional parts of a total stranger's life.  How did they not get drawn into it?  How were they able to listen to their friends' problems outside the workplace and not go into professional mode?  I have a much better understanding of all that now.  It's a nice place to be, especially since I was once a client of a therapist and started out thinking, "If I had real friends, I wouldn't need a therapist" and had to learn over time that my friends were just not qualified and professionals get paid for a reason.  Eureka.

Thanks, Ms Najakcharmer, for your brilliance and insight. 

(in reply to Najakcharmer)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Just out of interest why do you ladies dominate for... - 12/6/2007 1:04:34 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Thie bigger question is-  why do you guys pay for it in the first place?

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to wankerforuse)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Just out of interest why do you ladies dominate for... - 12/6/2007 1:40:50 PM   
MsSaskia


Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Those insufferable, arrogant, and fundamentally disturbing/disturbed folks often get screened out by pros, as well.  We aren't McDomme's either!  (I am loving that phrase, can I use it?)


I've known guys in my city and elsewhere who work their way around all the non-pro dommes, don't get anywhere because they're complete jerks, then start in on the pros.  They get rejected by the pros a little less quickly, but the rejection comes eventually:  we're just a little thicker skinned.

Some of them get downright scary when they realize that not even a pro will see them.  One of the job hazards is the psychos who never run out of new IDs and approaches and energy to cyberstalk or worse.  And the ones that get fired when they've actually been a client are no better. 

I can usually find a way to non-engage someone that's full of red flags, but every now and then (like today), I get tired of it and take a poke back, even if it's just calling someone on their shit and letting them know I'm on to them. 

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Just out of interest why do you ladies dominate for... - 12/6/2007 1:44:22 PM   
MsSaskia


Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressPav
Here's an interesting experiment: 
Collect all the profile pictures of pro-dommes. (not just face shots....full body shots)
Then collect all the pictures of non pro-dommes.  (not just face shots....full body shots)
Look at the pictures.  Compare them.
What differences do you see?


We have more money for wardrobes, or at least a greater emphasis on wardrobe, and we usually get professional quality pics taken and wear more makeup in those shots.  Other than that, I know plenty of heavier, older pro dommes (myself included).  Differences in marketing strategies don't necessarily reflect overall appeal to a prospective play partner.

(in reply to MistressPav)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Just out of interest why do you ladies dominate for... - 12/6/2007 1:47:36 PM   
MissMagnolia


Posts: 3636
Status: offline 		Very nicely said MsSaskia.

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Resident Whip Cracker AND Resident Orbs Of Joy.


(in reply to MsSaskia)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Just out of interest why do you ladies dominate for... - 12/6/2007 1:56:19 PM   
DianeB269


Posts: 1596
Joined: 10/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wankerforuse

and not for the love of it? As in my mind a proper domme does it for the love of it as it is in her blood something that is natural to her being dominant that is,cause it's in her genes her genetic makeup.A lady who does if for money is nothing more than an oscar nominated actress in my opinion,and not a dominant lady at all.She's just a money making machine.



So I can feed my kids and buy nice new cars....



Diane

(in reply to wankerforuse)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Just out of interest why do you ladies dominate for... - 12/6/2007 3:27:52 PM   
MistressPav


Posts: 350
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSaskia

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressPav
Here's an interesting experiment: 
Collect all the profile pictures of pro-dommes. (not just face shots....full body shots)
Then collect all the pictures of non pro-dommes.  (not just face shots....full body shots)
Look at the pictures.  Compare them.
What differences do you see?


We have more money for wardrobes, or at least a greater emphasis on wardrobe, and we usually get professional quality pics taken and wear more makeup in those shots.  Other than that, I know plenty of heavier, older pro dommes (myself included).  Differences in marketing strategies don't necessarily reflect overall appeal to a prospective play partner.



I like to use statistics.  They tend to give a little better perspective.


< Message edited by MistressPav -- 12/6/2007 3:29:49 PM >

_____________________________

Proud Owner of Zubi
(my boy "ToyZ")
Claimed & Collared 9magick#2008

"An it harm none, unless they deserve it, do what ye will." --Scorpio Creed

A- Rh-




(in reply to MsSaskia)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Just out of interest why do you ladies dominate for... - 12/6/2007 4:20:30 PM   
Grlwithboy


Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		I like to use my experience, it's the most reliable stat I have.

I was never hurting for clients, at 5'4'' and size 14. I still have people looking to play with me for pay, though that's no longer my gig.


(in reply to MistressPav)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Just out of interest why do you ladies dominate for... - 12/6/2007 4:25:50 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Thie bigger question is-  why do you guys pay for it in the first place?


Hi Ma`am, here are a dozen reasons.

1) To experience bdsm to see if its for you
2) To experience a specific fetish
3) To play without getting emotionally involved
4) To play as your partner isnt into the lifestyle
5) To give someone else control as stress relief
6) To meet someone who has the right equipment and experience

Well okay thats only six of the best but i tried :)

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Just out of interest why do you ladies dominate for... - 12/6/2007 4:30:47 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		Well said, Politesub.  The "equipment and experience" issues are often overlooked.  Certain well-respected professionals can offer experiences that an amateur could not, for reasons of sheer finances and lack of space--or should not, for lack of experience and/or medical knowledge. 

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Just out of interest why do you ladies dominate for... - 12/6/2007 4:41:29 PM   
MistressPav


Posts: 350
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy

I like to use my experience, it's the most reliable stat I have.

I was never hurting for clients, at 5'4'' and size 14. I still have people looking to play with me for pay, though that's no longer my gig.




That's awesome! 
I never made references to any particular thing, only the differences in the photos. 


< Message edited by MistressPav -- 12/6/2007 4:42:49 PM >

_____________________________

Proud Owner of Zubi
(my boy "ToyZ")
Claimed & Collared 9magick#2008

"An it harm none, unless they deserve it, do what ye will." --Scorpio Creed

A- Rh-




(in reply to Grlwithboy)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Just out of interest why do you ladies dominate for... - 12/6/2007 5:06:42 PM   
MsSaskia


Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressPav
I like to use statistics.  They tend to give a little better perspective.


Goody, I love statistics, especially when they're based on qualitative factors.  Whatcha got, stats-wise?

(in reply to MistressPav)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Just out of interest why do you ladies dominate for... - 12/6/2007 5:30:24 PM   
beltainefaerie


Posts: 610
Joined: 4/15/2006
Status: offline 		Most Professional Dominants get to do something they love and get paid.  Their jobs pay their bills and support their hobbies, just like the rest of us.  And, just like the rest of us, some of them are fantastic at their jobs and others are really just doing something they have skill in that pays the bills.  Most professionals, though, are doing it for love AND money, I imagine.

Incidentally, there are also professional submissives, usually associated with some particular professional play space and they are rentable with the rooms as well.  I never hear anyone complaining about them or asking why they do what they do.  Perhaps just because they aren't on this site? 

(in reply to MsSaskia)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Just out of interest why do you ladies dominate for... - 12/6/2007 5:52:22 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressPav

Here's an interesting experiment: 
Collect all the profile pictures of pro-dommes. (not just face shots....full body shots)
Then collect all the pictures of non pro-dommes.  (not just face shots....full body shots)
Look at the pictures.  Compare them.
What differences do you see?


I am not clear on exactly what you point you wish to make and where it fits in the discussion in this thread.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to MistressPav)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Just out of interest why do you ladies dominate for... - 12/6/2007 5:56:32 PM   
LadySeraphina


Posts: 931
Joined: 3/28/2006
From: Calgary, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beltainefaerie

Most Professional Dominants get to do something they love and get paid. Their jobs pay their bills and support their hobbies, just like the rest of us. And, just like the rest of us, some of them are fantastic at their jobs and others are really just doing something they have skill in that pays the bills. Most professionals, though, are doing it for love AND money, I imagine.

Incidentally, there are also professional submissives, usually associated with some particular professional play space and they are rentable with the rooms as well. I never hear anyone complaining about them or asking why they do what they do. Perhaps just because they aren't on this site?



I'm not even going to bother reading this whole thread, since it's bound to read like all the others, but I had to applaud beltainfaerie.

There are a lot of proDommes that I do not agree with, but some of us genuinely like what we do, are lifestyle Dommes as well, and play with boys we really like.

I do nothing I don't want to, and don't play with anyone unless I like them. I love what I do, and my profession fills a need. What, precisely, is wrong with that?

In the past I have even helped some of my boys to meet lifestyle Dommes, and I can think of one off the top of my head who is now living with the Lady he met through me.

I know that those who hate pros will disregard what I've said anyway, but there's my two cents.

-Lady Seraphina

_____________________________

"Men are like wine. They start out as grapes and its up to the woman to stomp the crap out of them until they turn into something acceptable to have dinner with." -Unknown

www.LadySeraphina.ca

www.SeraphinasToybox.com.

(in reply to beltainefaerie)
Profile   Post #: 120
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