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RE: money and sexism in BDSM - 8/8/2005 3:21:43 AM   
zaynab


Posts: 377
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito
quote:

ORIGINAL: thelight
It seems to me, that if this is to be an egalitarian community,

This is an egalitarian community? Shit, why do I keep missing these memos? I'm so out of the loop.

I missed it too damn it, always out of the loop. M



I don't even know what egalitarian means..... does that mean that I'm not allowed to play?

< Message edited by zaynab -- 8/8/2005 3:22:29 AM >

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: money and sexism in BDSM - 8/8/2005 4:55:35 AM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		my Dom takes care of me, but it is not aboute the money, right now i have more money then him, but he make sure the bills are paied, and makes sure i am safe and protected. Not everyone that are looking for a Dom to take care of them mean monywise. Ofcourse, i do not mind if the man pay for me either, and my Dom will probably pay mutch more then me eventualy as he has an education that had potential to yield alot of money, while i have a disability pension.

(in reply to zaynab)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: money and sexism in BDSM - 8/8/2005 8:27:54 AM   
Oumae


Posts: 911
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline 		Not all females expect tributes or a man to pay their way.
There are male pro Doms and subs

There may be more women looking for men to pay then there are men but maybe thats because men are willing to do it.... I'm sure if females were willing there'd be men quite happy to accept.

If its not for you just pass them over.

Oumae

_____________________________

Is cuma le fear na mbrog ca leagann se a chos.
( The man with the boots does not mind where he places his foot)

(in reply to thelight)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: money and sexism in BDSM - 8/8/2005 8:50:45 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		Also, keep in mind that the difference between male and female salary still exists. Studies say that in the majority of isntances a man will make more than a woman in the same job.

A single person in Southern California would most likely be struggling to make ends meet, so I can understand the desire to get a little boost. Especially when women's attire costs so much. An inexpensive corset is $200.

While I don't engage in this type of relationship and we don't seek a stay at home sub as our third, I leave each to their own.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Oumae)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: money and sexism in BDSM - 8/8/2005 9:23:49 AM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


A single person in Southern California would most likely be struggling to make ends meet, so I can understand the desire to get a little boost. Especially when women's attire costs so much. An inexpensive corset is $200.



Okay...I'll agree that the salaries are still disproportional. It's unfair and it should be changed. The problem I have with the rest of the post is:

1. Californians bitching about not making ends meet? Property values are up? Cost of living is higher? Move! (And I don't mean buying up all available real estate in Arizona as investment properties. It drives up the cost of living and is really doing serious damage to the water table. Isn't it bad enough that California can't support it's own people with the resources they have...that they need to deplete the resources of other states?) Not to mention how California has so many environmental activists who all seem to drive an SUV.
(I'll admit...this hit a nerve.)

2. Women's attire. How many sales do they have in women's clothing stores? Virtually once a month, easy. Ever been shopping for men's clothing? I have yet to find 60-80% off on any men's clothing item and yet, women's clothing seems to always be on sale.

As for paying tribute...hell I don't care as long as people are honest about what they are doing.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: money and sexism in BDSM - 8/8/2005 10:01:01 AM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

With all due respect Ms Gloria, everyone is in the scene to benefit him/herself, weather that benefit is sexual, emotional, financial...



I'd go one step further and say that most people (irrespective of lifestyle choice) are in this life to benefit themselves. People are selfishly motivated, like it or not. The key is to find someone who's selfish needs complement your own selfish needs.

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: money and sexism in BDSM - 8/8/2005 10:03:56 AM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: junecleaver

Or we could just be adults and run our relationships in ways that are beneficial for us and those we care about.



That make waaaaay too much sense. It will never happen

(in reply to junecleaver)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: money and sexism in BDSM - 8/8/2005 10:07:56 AM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns

2. Women's attire. How many sales do they have in women's clothing stores? Virtually once a month, easy. Ever been shopping for men's clothing? I have yet to find 60-80% off on any men's clothing item and yet, women's clothing seems to always be on sale.



I must not be shopping in the right places because the last time I was in the Gap they didn't have any corsets for sale. Lots of poorly made, cheap looking cotton clothing on sale, but no corsets. Boohoo.

(in reply to MrThorns)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: money and sexism in BDSM - 8/8/2005 10:17:18 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


A single person in Southern California would most likely be struggling to make ends meet, so I can understand the desire to get a little boost. Especially when women's attire costs so much. An inexpensive corset is $200.



Okay...I'll agree that the salaries are still disproportional. It's unfair and it should be changed. The problem I have with the rest of the post is:

1. Californians bitching about not making ends meet? Property values are up? Cost of living is higher? Move! (And I don't mean buying up all available real estate in Arizona as investment properties. It drives up the cost of living and is really doing serious damage to the water table. Isn't it bad enough that California can't support it's own people with the resources they have...that they need to deplete the resources of other states?) Not to mention how California has so many environmental activists who all seem to drive an SUV.
(I'll admit...this hit a nerve.)

2. Women's attire. How many sales do they have in women's clothing stores? Virtually once a month, easy. Ever been shopping for men's clothing? I have yet to find 60-80% off on any men's clothing item and yet, women's clothing seems to always be on sale.

As for paying tribute...hell I don't care as long as people are honest about what they are doing.

~Thorns


I pay for all my own gear and fetish clothing, but if I didn't have the disposable income I might consider having a sub pay for some of my gear if he wanted to play with me. You don't know the difference between fetish clothing and normal clothing. A good pair of boots is $200 or $300.

What if submissive men were expected to wear full body latex suits? Think they would be shelling out $800?

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to MrThorns)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: money and sexism in BDSM - 8/8/2005 10:33:00 AM   
SweetDommes


Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns
1. Californians bitching about not making ends meet? Property values are up? Cost of living is higher? Move! (And I don't mean buying up all available real estate in Arizona as investment properties. It drives up the cost of living and is really doing serious damage to the water table. Isn't it bad enough that California can't support it's own people with the resources they have...that they need to deplete the resources of other states?) Not to mention how California has so many environmental activists who all seem to drive an SUV.
(I'll admit...this hit a nerve.)


Do you know how expensive it is to move? to go somewhere that they can afford to live on their current salery - which they probably won't get wherever they move to, if they can even get a job somewhere else ... when they already have no money ... great advice, brilliant...

quote:


2. Women's attire. How many sales do they have in women's clothing stores? Virtually once a month, easy. Ever been shopping for men's clothing? I have yet to find 60-80% off on any men's clothing item and yet, women's clothing seems to always be on sale.


I'm with the others on this - you can't get fetish clothes easily or cheaply ... and most of the guys who are complaining about having to give tribute want their domme all dolled up on all kinds of fetish clothing ... if they don't care about the fetish wear, then no biggie - I can domme in t-shirt and jeans, pjs, or whatever else - but if they want the fetish stuff, they are going to have to help pay for it and I see absolutely no problem with that. Fortunately for us, we haven't run into any (that we liked) who decided that we *had* to have the fetish stuff - and most who like it were willing to at least help foot the bill for it.

(in reply to MrThorns)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: money and sexism in BDSM - 8/8/2005 3:27:54 PM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes
Do you know how expensive it is to move? to go somewhere that they can afford to live on their current salery - which they probably won't get wherever they move to, if they can even get a job somewhere else ... when they already have no money ... great advice, brilliant...


Yes, I know how expensive it is to move... Salaries in California are generally higher than in other parts of the country, as is the cost of living. Does it not make sense to move someplace where the cost of living is considerably lower? Makes sense to me.

quote:


I'm with the others on this - you can't get fetish clothes easily or cheaply ...


Womens attire = clothing made especially for women, yes? When did I ever mention fetish clothing? But as the subject has been brought up..you mean to tell me that FemDoms are going to get all "dolled" up because that's what the submissive wants? I would think that if she wanted an $800 corset, she would want it because she likes to wear $800 corsets. If she finds someone willing to pay for it so she doesn't have to...well...super. Just don't try and justify the deed by saying that it's being done for the submissive's benefit.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to SweetDommes)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: money and sexism in BDSM - 8/8/2005 3:41:29 PM   
SweetDommes


Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns

Yes, I know how expensive it is to move... Salaries in California are generally higher than in other parts of the country, as is the cost of living. Does it not make sense to move someplace where the cost of living is considerably lower? Makes sense to me.

and that is actually my point - yeah the cost of living is lower, so are salaries ... and this is going on the assumption that they can get a job elsewhere. so now, yeah, cost of living is lower, but they are making less, plus they shelled out $ to move, plus to break their lease (if they had one that requires it - and most do) plus a deposit on a new place - so they are risking coming out way behind. As with most things, people prefer the devil they know to the one they don't - they will stay and scrape by and try to come up with other ways to get money rather than risk losing everything.

*just a note - I am not advocating that this is the way to go ... but it's not always a horrible horrible thing when it happens either. I also think it's rather ... *can't think of appropriate word that won't start flame war - sorry* to assume that just because you could/would move that it's that easy for everyone.

quote:


Womens attire = clothing made especially for women, yes? When did I ever mention fetish clothing? But as the subject has been brought up..you mean to tell me that FemDoms are going to get all "dolled" up because that's what the submissive wants? I would think that if she wanted an $800 corset, she would want it because she likes to wear $800 corsets. If she finds someone willing to pay for it so she doesn't have to...well...super. Just don't try and justify the deed by saying that it's being done for the submissive's benefit.

~Thorns


I understand the difference between women's attire and fetish clothing, but the original statement was about women's clothing followed by the price of a corset.
quote:

Especially when women's attire costs so much. An inexpensive corset is $200.
So, yeah, what she said was women's clothing, but what should have been obvious (and was obvious to me and others) was that she meant "women's fetish wear."
I also specifically mentioned that the guys who bitch about Dominants who want tribute are the same ones who want their Domme to be all dolled up - I did not, at any point in time, say that a Domme has any obligation to dress up for anyone but herself - point being, if he expects it, he needs to at least help pay for it.

(in reply to MrThorns)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: money and sexism in BDSM - 8/8/2005 6:58:21 PM   
kc692


Posts: 3701
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: onceburned

quote:

ORIGINAL: thelight.
It seems to me, that if this is to be an egalitarian community, with differences based entirely upon role and not upon sex, then there should be some sort of standard to govern money issues. Either subs are taken care of, or Doms receive tribute, regardless of sex. Or better yet, money should not be involved at all.


I think everyone should give their money to me. I will take good care of it.

This seems like a reasonable standard to me.


I'd trust ya, babes.....

(in reply to onceburned)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: money and sexism in BDSM - 8/8/2005 7:08:56 PM   
onceburned


Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline 		Thank you, KC. I appreciate that.

Next!


(in reply to kc692)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: money and sexism in BDSM - 8/8/2005 7:12:35 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PrincessinLatex

quote:

Or we could just be adults and run our relationships in ways that are beneficial for us and those we care about.


I'll drink to that!!!

Princess


I'll echo that.

To my mind, all the aspects of the proposed relationship, be it M/s or D/s, should be discussed before the relationship commences. Yes this means the financial aspects too. Then if you are both in accord and you are both adults then go for it, but don’t bitch after if things are not what you thought they would be. Ok I am going to assume that both parties are honourable and honest people for this to work. I am aware that there is a character type of person who usually has a heart larger than their common sense and is soft targets for rip off merchants, but these people populate all lifestyles not just this one. Personally I believe in regular times when the sub/slave can talk to his/her Dominant freely and if needs be renegotiate their agreement. What I hate to see if someone is being released for any reason and losing everything they have.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to PrincessinLatex)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: money and sexism in BDSM - 8/8/2005 7:47:31 PM   
domtimothy46176


Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fidelity

it's just a common double standard left over from days where women were in thrall to men for money-since they didn't have careers of their own. Some still prefer to use men for life support systems.

But the same double standard works against men-who are seen as parasites if they dare to do the same.


*sigh* OK, I'll take the heat and be the parasite. Ya'll just send those payments to me and I'll find a way to live with the angst
Timothy

(in reply to Fidelity)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: money and sexism in BDSM - 8/8/2005 8:29:23 PM   
MistressSassy66


Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Well for one thing...toys cost money.So does rope.So do the nylons and panties and bras for subs to wear and keep as their own.The make-up and applicators for the make-up can be quite costly especilly since you have to becareful with germs.And then if you do anal play with fingers its a good idea to have non-latex gloves(allergies to latex can be a problem).
I expect My sub to buy his own dildo,and I often cover them with rubbers,just to be on the safe side.These things add up.
Besides I have a dungeon that can always use a new set of pulleys or cuffs or hooks or saw horses etc...

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to thelight)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: money and sexism in BDSM - 8/8/2005 8:30:49 PM   
richbtch24


Posts: 33
Joined: 7/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear


quote:

ORIGINAL: PrincessinLatex

quote:

Or we could just be adults and run our relationships in ways that are beneficial for us and those we care about.


I'll drink to that!!!

Princess


It is always good to read my post but put in a "nicer" way...if you read my post, I say to each his own and leave it at that. In too many words but apparently I was looking to "wreck myself." We're all here for our own good time and our own enjoyment, lets look at what we do have in common and leave it at that. OO, I am so catching "vanilla" slack for that.


Rob

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: money and sexism in BDSM - 8/8/2005 8:45:18 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns
Okay...I'll agree that the salaries are still disproportional. It's unfair and it should be changed. The problem I have with the rest of the post is:

1. Californians bitching about not making ends meet? Property values are up? Cost of living is higher? Move! (And I don't mean buying up all available real estate in Arizona as investment properties. It drives up the cost of living and is really doing serious damage to the water table. Isn't it bad enough that California can't support it's own people with the resources they have...that they need to deplete the resources of other states?)
I did not bitch about making ends meet. I said it's challenge. To me it's totally worth that challenge to live in such an amazing place. I do not own property in Arizona and personally I'd rather cut my heart out with a plastic spoon than live there, but to each their own.

quote:

Not to mention how California has so many environmental activists who all seem to drive an SUV.
Gee, I own a Miata. God, what a horrible person I am.

quote:

2. Women's attire. How many sales do they have in women's clothing stores? Virtually once a month, easy. Ever been shopping for men's clothing? I have yet to find 60-80% off on any men's clothing item and yet, women's clothing seems to always be on sale.
Men's clothing in general is less than women's. Compare the costs of men's underwear to ladies underwear. But, I was specifically referring to scene wear which you chose to ignore. Women are expected to wear sexy items some of which cost a mint. Most guys show up at parties in black pants and a black shirt, while the women are in spike heels (which most of us can't wear anywhere else), stockings, garters, dresses and skirts (that most of us wouldn't wear out into general public), a different corset for everyday of the week. I'm sorry, but it adds up. I can thoroughly understand the mentality of "if you want to see me in it, buy it for me."



_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to MrThorns)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: money and sexism in BDSM - 8/8/2005 10:24:32 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: onceburned
Thank you, KC. I appreciate that.
Next!
I'm counting my pennies, when are you coming? M


_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to onceburned)
Profile   Post #: 40
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