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RCdc -> .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 8:28:15 AM)

It's a slow and fresh day and I have just had deep discussions with my daughter, so some of that discussion with her has carried over onto these random thoughts that was also sparked by a thread in the submissive forum.
 
I've seen so many posts, particularly recently, where people seperate BDSM from what they call 'vanilla'.  I loathe that term as much as I loathe 'fake' or 'true' because when used, people seem to be using it in as a put down - even similar the the infamous slave or submissive threads which makes someone better than another.
 
I haven't ever seperated my life into neat little boxes that define different areas of my life.  I don't pretend to be a daughter to my parents and then when I leave their house, morph into Darcys' submissive.  I am both and I do not behave any differently when I am with either.  I don't wear different clothing when I go to a munch, I wear what I wear in everyday.  If a party I attend is in a high class establishment, I may dress to impress, but I wouldn;t dress out of 'charachter' - if that makes any sense.
 
I don't view BDSM activities as wrong, or dirty or somewhat darker in substance than I do anything else, even the activities I wouldn't participate in because they just do not float my boat.
 
I see people push and thrust into discussions how communication is important!  That truth and honesty is a must!  That being open and sharing is vital!  Yet by seperating BDSM from all things 'vanilla' makes it a lie to someone - somewhere.
People say - I'm not lying, It's just I don't flaunt it!  There is too much risk!  Now I disagree.  Not flaunting and not telling someone isn't lying, but knowingly with-holding information from people who in everyday life are important to you or have an impact on your life in a major way is a lie.  If you can hold something back from someone you love and who cares about you, then who is to say you won;t lie to someone else?  Yes, I am turning on it's head all the people that claim moral high ground for those who hide their relationships when they cheat on others - but surely the same could be said for those that cheat their employers, their parents, their best friends for not being who they are with openness and truth and honesty and not communicating their choices.  What makes one worse than the other - other than personal morality?
 
Some people bemoan that they can't come out of the 'closet'.  Some people complain that there life choice is judged and are under pressure to hide because of the 'wrongness' that is percieved, but how can 'some people' expect to be accepted, when they portray themselves when in BDSM circles as their 'darkside' or talk of their 'perversions'as though they are impossibly wrong.  If it's dirty and wrong to you, then you have a hell of a long way to go to make people understand how healthy and imaginative BDSM can be and how effective a tool it can be in both an emotional and mental perspective.
 
Rememeber these are random thoughts that I have taken and seen posted, some do not mirror my own thoughts and are purely for discussion sake.
 
the.dark.



Stephann -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 8:41:51 AM)

Hi dark,

A few thoughts.  First off, I do use and prefer the term vanilla.  Yet I agree with you in essence, that I don't separate who I am as a dominant, from who I am as any of the other roles in my life (employee, son, friend, passer-by.)  What the term vanilla means, for me, is usually to illustrate activities or people who are not exposed or mixed with my darker interests.  When I am engaged in 'vanilla' activities, I do it as the person I am.  I needn't reveal or flaunt my D/s experiences and desires to enjoy a party, though recently I most certainly did with Tigrita.  The point is that there shouldn't be any shame in not putting 'who you are' on display for all and sundry.

And, as a secondary thought; some people do see the things they enjoy as wrong.  If they didn't see it as wrong, they wouldn't enjoy it nearly as much.  If someone actively desires emotional masochism, that is hardly something they should apologize for.  Personally, I don't think it's a healthy way to live, but I'm certain lots of people would say the same about the things I do and enjoy.

Stephan





breatheasone -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 8:49:25 AM)

I couldn't agree more.... I was just in Michigan a few weeks ago for a family members funeral and as i was getting ready my mother and daughter started in on me about wearing my collar....both of them kept telling me I should take it off....I wouldn't....they got the point. Its MY life...I'm not an asshole I don't "flaunt" it in anyones face. I'm very considerate of those around me when I do have the occasion to speak about my life style choice. On the other hand I don't go out of my way in ANY stretch to hide who I am.

My youngest daughter was hedging around, asking odd leading questions...and I knew where she was wanting to go....so I let her off the hook, and offered it up for discussion...I simply said..."Tiffany honey, if you want to talk about this I will. Just know that what ever you ask, I will answer...so be sure you want to hear the answer." The phone was silent for about a full 45 sec....and she chimed in with a cheerful question about how the weather had been lately.....LOL So....yeah...I am who I am...I don't know what box that puts me in.



toservez -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 8:51:33 AM)

I started off reading this post nodding my head in agreement. Then as it went on in all honesty rolled my eyes as it became a series of thoughts with judgments attached based on vacuum theory about life which seemed to contradict what was written early in the post.

We are human beings, we are complicated and not simple logic machines a plus b always equals c.

There is flaunting what we are about in way to try to convince others of our superiority that is usually based in insecurity. Then there is simply living life on our own terms. I think most people in this life do live on our own terms and whether they make a decision to tell who they feel they want to tell about their intimate interests or how their relationship dynamic works in great detail is up to them. I just do not understand when all other relationships that two people are in do not need to feel the need to express the dynamic to the world why it is some sort of lie.

Modesty and humility are virtues. Not telling others of my way when it effects absolutely no one is not a lie or some burden and quite frankly random thought or that this is equal to lying and a slam on a person’s character and trustworthiness is quite lame.

I find it ironic that the beginning of a post that slams one true way thinking because people do it to feel better then others ends with a person claiming if not out and proud shouting it to everyone they care about is not as good of a person who does.

Sorry a huge difference between being ashamed of what we are and what we do from having to publicly tell people of how I live and to draw a character judgment from this distinction is just flat out wrong, random thought or not.



RCdc -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 8:59:33 AM)

Thanks for the input Stephann.
I agree with you on the 'if they didn't see it as wrong, they wouldn't be doing it' thought, my thought on that is when people who do participate in an activity that is/they see as wrong, who then go on to suggest that they shouldn't be seen as doing anything wrong and I would really like to understand how they could want that, because then if it was 'right' then it wouldn't be worth doing?
Gosh that sounded backwardcomingforwards - I know what I am trying to 'ask' but not sure if it's coming out right...[&:]
 
the.dark.



RCdc -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 9:04:27 AM)

Loved your example, breathesasone.
And as for the box - I often ask that myself - not particularly of myself, but in a world that seems to like little boxes, I do wonder which box I fit in other peoples minds, just out of curiosity really, not because I want to fit in it...[;)]
 
the.dark.



breatheasone -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 9:06:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Loved your example, breathesasone.
And as for the box - I often ask that myself - not particularly of myself, but in a world that seems to like little boxes, I do wonder which box I fit in other peoples minds, just out of curiosity really, not because I want to fit in it...[;)]
 
the.dark.

For me personally?..... you would fit in the "freaky people box" LOL [;)]



Stephann -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 9:13:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Thanks for the input Stephann.
I agree with you on the 'if they didn't see it as wrong, they wouldn't be doing it' thought, my thought on that is when people who do participate in an activity that is/they see as wrong, who then go on to suggest that they shouldn't be seen as doing anything wrong and I would really like to understand how they could want that, because then if it was 'right' then it wouldn't be worth doing?
Gosh that sounded backwardcomingforwards - I know what I am trying to 'ask' but not sure if it's coming out right...[&:]
 
the.dark.


I think toservez answered better than I could have.  Essentially, I don't believe that just because what I do is 'right' means it is suitable for public consumption.  Western society is extremely distrustful of any organization that has secrets; from cults to the Masons.  But the fact is, the public at large simply doesn't, by it's nature, have the capacity to understand everything we do.  If people could peer through walls, they would; and be shocked to see me choking my slave, or carving 'whore' into her back with a knife.  Because they simply don't possess the capacity for context into what I am doing and why, I'd have a one way ticket to prison (where the same activities occur, only between non-consenting men, instead of consenting men and women.)

Stephan



breatheasone -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 9:18:46 AM)

quote:

I don't believe that just because what I do is 'right' means it is suitable for public consumption.

Thats it in the nutshell....well said.



RCdc -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 9:24:14 AM)

Hello toservez
 
I appriciate your reply, although though you mentioned you found the end of the post ironic, I don't know if ( edit for typo )you understood that I was being ironic there for the reasons you mentioned - that life isn't always black and white.
 
But I do disagree that there isn't 'one true way' and in no way did I try to offer this thought so if that came across, that wasn't my goal because I happen to believe there is - but that the one true way is just that - For one. (or unit)
 
I just keep seeing contradictions in threads and it makes me 'think' and see how that touches me and my reactions and my life.
 
As for making a charachter judgement, the fact remains that people do have a set idea on other people and minorities and if a person follows that stereotype then my question is why bemoan or sadly state that they can't be open, when, as Stephanns example gave - people find the things that are wrong the reason they do them, so if they weren't wrong or frowned upon, chances are they wouldn't have any interest in them?  A simple question really.
 
the.dark.



Missokyst -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 9:29:40 AM)

I have a slightly different take.  I am me, in or out of bdsm.  I use the same name, I act the same way, I submit only when someone inspires it from me, and otherwise I am generally the type of person to goes out of my way to make things easier for people in my circle.
I adore vanilla and do not see it as an insult. In fact, I perfer the way vanilla men make advances to me, over the dominants I have met.  For me, nillas have more guts.
There is no difference between me who partakes of bdsm, and me who enjoys nilla sex.  I do both with passion. 
But, I do not see any advantage to announcing my submissive status to the general public.  And by that I mean people with whom I am not likely to get naked with in a sensual sense.  I haven't noticed too many nilla people who go around sharing what sort of sexual, or relationship activities they enjoy.  It has nothing to do with shame of who I am, or how secure I feel about what I do.  It is a matter of personal taste, discretion, and well.. I perfer to keep my sensuality with people I am actually fucking, or those who may attend the same parties as I.
Maybe I am a freak, but I am not that close to my employers, work mates, general people I may hang out with, or even family members.  Heck.. my sister does not talk about her sex life with me and for that I am JOYOUS!  I have seen the men she has dated.
See.. I just do not get why so many bdsm'rs feel the need to proclaim themselves to the world.  In my life relationships are like a Venn diagram.  There are spheres that never interact.  There are spheres that mingle.  And there are those directly in the inner circle.   I do not view family and friends as people in the inner circle unless we plan to see eachother naked.  They are simply connected to me in a non sensual way.
Openness and honesty don't even come into it for me.  Nor does morality or shame.  For me, to announce my choices would be tacky.  In bdsm or vanilla, I am always going to be the same genteel woman I was brought up to be.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I see people push and thrust into discussions how communication is important!  That truth and honesty is a must!  That being open and sharing is vital!  Yet by seperating BDSM from all things 'vanilla' makes it a lie to someone - somewhere.
People say - I'm not lying, It's just I don't flaunt it!  There is too much risk!  Now I disagree.  Not flaunting and not telling someone isn't lying, but knowingly with-holding information from people who in everyday life are important to you or have an impact on your life in a major way is a lie.  If you can hold something back from someone you love and who cares about you, then who is to say you won;t lie to someone else?  Yes, I am turning on it's head all the people that claim moral high ground for those who hide their relationships when they cheat on others - but surely the same could be said for those that cheat their employers, their parents, their best friends for not being who they are with openness and truth and honesty and not communicating their choices.  What makes one worse than the other - other than personal morality?
 



RCdc -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 9:32:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann
Essentially, I don't believe that just because what I do is 'right' means it is suitable for public consumption.  Western society is extremely distrustful of any organization that has secrets; from cults to the Masons. 

Stephan


I get the first part and believe you are spoton there.  But then your paragraph bring another question I would have which is why do we have the secrets?  Do we have the secrets because we have decided that society can't handle it, or do we have to have secrets because society has decided we have to have them(which includes activities being 'wrong'due to laws etc).   Which came first - chicken or egg? <us being generic>
 
the.dark.



Stephann -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 9:33:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

my question is why bemoan or sadly state that they can't be open, when, as Stephanns example gave - people find the things that are wrong the reason they do them, so if they weren't wrong or frowned upon, chances are they wouldn't have any interest in them?  A simple question really.
 
the.dark.


The simple answer is something I said a while back

"Not every person wants to be saved.  Not every person wants to be happy.  Those who consciously, actively choose to live an unhappy and painful life have every bit of a right to their pursuit to death, bondage, and the pursuit of misery."

People bemoan that they can't be open for the same reason they bemoan that they can't go outside when it's raining.  Either it's not important enough for them to change their attitude (and get an umbrella) or they simply enjoy being unhappy.  Why worry on it?

Stephan



Stephann -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 9:42:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I get the first part and believe you are spoton there.  But then your paragraph bring another question I would have which is why do we have the secrets?  Do we have the secrets because we have decided that society can't handle it, or do we have to have secrets because society has decided we have to have them(which includes activities being 'wrong'due to laws etc).   Which came first - chicken or egg? <us being generic>

the.dark.


The reasons for our secrets, as it were, might be simple or complex.  Personally, I'm an exhibitionist.  I like shocking people.  On the other hand, I don't like hurting the people I shock.  Thus, to enable my enjoyment from exhibitionism, I have to be judicious in where and whom I shock, understanding of course that I'm taking a risk in doing so. 

With that said, I don't believe witholding information about myself to those I am close to, is a lie as you suggested originally.  I have to weigh the value of sharing intimate parts of my life, against the potential damage it could do to my relationship.  Suppose you were dating a black man, and you knew your grandfather whom you love was horribly racist; you're left with an impossible task of saying "should I tell my 90 year old grandfather who was beaten by black men in the 50's that I'm in love with a black man?" Some people would.  Others wouldn't.  There is no right or wrong here, only a question of how much are you willing to risk, and do you think the potential good outweighs the potential risk.

Society is ignorant of how BDSM relationships work; yet society is ignorant of how most relationships work.  You can choose to take society by the horns, and see if you can change it, or you can simply accept the beast as it is, and do your best not to wave a red cape in front of it.  Neither approach is wrong, though you can certainly tell where my bias rests.

Stephan



velvetears -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 10:10:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark


 people seem to be using it in as a put down - even similar the the infamous slave or submissive threads which makes someone better than another.


People are insecure and there will always be a need for some to feel better. It used to bother me when someone labeled themselves as a way of some sort of special entitlement but i just got to a point where i said - hey that's their own prison. 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
I haven't ever seperated my life into neat little boxes that define different areas of my life.  I don't pretend to be a daughter to my parents and then when I leave their house, morph into Darcys' submissive.  I am both and I do not behave any differently when I am with either.

i don't pretend to be my father's daughter when i see him because i am a submissive, i am both yes but that doesn't mean everyone is entitled to information about me that i feel would lead to "complications" (i'll leave it open) and that is quite frankly none of their business.  Someone may be a wife but that doesn't mean she has to act like one when she's at a friends house for tea.  Someone may be a mother but that doesn't mean she has to act like one when with her husband  in bed at night etc ...etc   i can only speak for myself when i say when i was owned i certainly did behave differently with my Master then i did when i was with anyone else - and it had nothing to do with lies or deceipt and everyting to do with our own, none of anyone elses business dynamic which we shared together and for the most part no one would understand (except for the friends we had who were into bdsm).
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
I don't view BDSM activities as wrong, or dirty or somewhat darker in substance than I do anything else


Nor do i, but many people in society do so i have to be prudent in what i share with people.  i have nothing to prove to anyone, and my life is my business.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
....by seperating BDSM from all things 'vanilla' makes it a lie to someone - somewhere.
People say - I'm not lying, It's just I don't flaunt it!  There is too much risk!  Now I disagree.  Not flaunting and not telling someone isn't lying, but knowingly with-holding information from people who in everyday life are important to you or have an impact on your life in a major way is a lie.  If you can hold something back from someone you love and who cares about you, then who is to say you won;t lie to someone else?  Yes, I am turning on it's head all the people that claim moral high ground for those who hide their relationships when they cheat on others - but surely the same could be said for those that cheat their employers, their parents, their best friends for not being who they are with openness and truth and honesty and not communicating their choices.  What makes one worse than the other - other than personal morality?
Why do we owe people we love all our information?  i just don't get that.  i love my parents but i don't feel because they are a part of my life i have to tell them everything. In fact, i think if you realy love someone you will have enough compassion and kindness to spare them details of your life you think they might not be able to handle well.  Maybe it would make some feel better to be totally open and honest but in reality they are possibly hurting others in their attempts to feel "free to be who they are".   How free is a teacher going to be if she tells her coworkers about her lifestyle and get's fired.  Free to look for another job maybe - certainly not free to be who she is which included being a teacher - that door will now be closed to her - life is made up of many compromises along the way and freedom is relative.

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
Some people bemoan that they can't come out of the 'closet'.  Some people complain that there life choice is judged and are under pressure to hide because of the 'wrongness' that is percieved, but how can 'some people' expect to be accepted, when they portray themselves when in BDSM circles as their 'darkside' or talk of their 'perversions'as though they are impossibly wrong.  If it's dirty and wrong to you, then you have a hell of a long way to go to make people understand how healthy and imaginative BDSM can be and how effective a tool it can be in both an emotional and mental perspective.


i don't look for acceptance or validation.  i accept it,  i enjoy it, i need and want it and that's all thats important to me - not how many people accept me or know who i am etc etc

i also don't see it as dirty or wrong - although someone made a good point earlier that maybe for some the "wrong and dirty" aspect might be the appeal - i just don't have that need myself though so i find it hard to understand.

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
Rememeber these are random thoughts that I have taken and seen posted, some do not mirror my own thoughts and are purely for discussion sake.
 
the.dark.


Interesting topic.. thanks



adoracat -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 10:10:59 AM)

i wouldnt call what i do "hiding".

i'm ALWAYS mama to thing one and thing two.
i'm ALWAYS wife to wolf as long as he wants to stay married.  (huge sigh inserted at this point.)
i'm ALWAYS a heathen odian with a pointed bow in cernunos' direction also.
i'm ALWAYS Daddy's girl.

i dont always have either of the imps with me, so that isnt always obvious.  i dont necessarily wear a wedding ring or have wolf with me, so tat isnt obvious either.  i dont wear "witchy" clothing all the time (ok, maybe a little bit of the 60's influence, but that's about it).  i dont have an "obvious" collar.

i'm just going about my business being me.  sometimes it appears quite vanilla.  sometimes it doesnt.  sometimes my daughter and i make the person at the next table do a spit take when they eavesdrop on our conversation.  i may refrain from mentioning some things in public depending on my surroundings, but that's out of respect for others.

i'm just being me.

kitten, bein herself.



junecleaver -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 10:22:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

It's a slow and fresh day and I have just had deep discussions with my daughter, so some of that discussion with her has carried over onto these random thoughts that was also sparked by a thread in the submissive forum.
 
I've seen so many posts, particularly recently, where people seperate BDSM from what they call 'vanilla'.  I loathe that term as much as I loathe 'fake' or 'true' because when used, people seem to be using it in as a put down - even similar the the infamous slave or submissive threads which makes someone better than another.
 
I haven't ever seperated my life into neat little boxes that define different areas of my life.  I don't pretend to be a daughter to my parents and then when I leave their house, morph into Darcys' submissive.  I am both and I do not behave any differently when I am with either.  I don't wear different clothing when I go to a munch, I wear what I wear in everyday.  If a party I attend is in a high class establishment, I may dress to impress, but I wouldn;t dress out of 'charachter' - if that makes any sense.
 
I don't view BDSM activities as wrong, or dirty or somewhat darker in substance than I do anything else, even the activities I wouldn't participate in because they just do not float my boat.
 
I see people push and thrust into discussions how communication is important!  That truth and honesty is a must!  That being open and sharing is vital!  Yet by seperating BDSM from all things 'vanilla' makes it a lie to someone - somewhere.
People say - I'm not lying, It's just I don't flaunt it!  There is too much risk!  Now I disagree.  Not flaunting and not telling someone isn't lying, but knowingly with-holding information from people who in everyday life are important to you or have an impact on your life in a major way is a lie.  If you can hold something back from someone you love and who cares about you, then who is to say you won;t lie to someone else?  Yes, I am turning on it's head all the people that claim moral high ground for those who hide their relationships when they cheat on others - but surely the same could be said for those that cheat their employers, their parents, their best friends for not being who they are with openness and truth and honesty and not communicating their choices.  What makes one worse than the other - other than personal morality?
 
Some people bemoan that they can't come out of the 'closet'.  Some people complain that there life choice is judged and are under pressure to hide because of the 'wrongness' that is percieved, but how can 'some people' expect to be accepted, when they portray themselves when in BDSM circles as their 'darkside' or talk of their 'perversions'as though they are impossibly wrong.  If it's dirty and wrong to you, then you have a hell of a long way to go to make people understand how healthy and imaginative BDSM can be and how effective a tool it can be in both an emotional and mental perspective.
 
Rememeber these are random thoughts that I have taken and seen posted, some do not mirror my own thoughts and are purely for discussion sake.
 
the.dark.

Some random stuff:

I like my boxes.  I like to catagorize things.  I make lists when I'm nervous.  Part of growing up has been coming to terms with the fact that not EVERYTHING fits into a catagory, although I still tend to think that the majority of things do.

I am myself in everything I do, but I never react in one singular way.  So myself when I am in front of my mother is not the myself that I am in front of my friends which is not the myself that I am in front of my coworkers which is not the myself I am infront of my classmates and professors.  To attempt to stay the same in all of these situations would be contrary to my nature uncomfortable, and against who I really am.  I am myself at kink events and I am myself at family dinners even though what's manifested might seem different.

I have darker interests.  I have pervy thoughts.  I have no plans to take out the dark or the perversion, because it enhances what I do.  I like to feel dirty.  I like to feel sick.  I don't need to justify it.  It is what is and what is is a big turn on for me.

It would be nice if everyone could go to work at any job and be accepted for who they are with no bearing on their work life at all.  But the truth is that people are discriminated against on many levels---because they are not white, not a male, not heterosexual.  Being into BDSM -is- dangerous for people in many fields.  I respect their decision to remain 'in the closet.'  I don't think perpetuating BDSM as something 'dark' is detrimental to it.  The dark edgy image has propelled many musical groups and films and books forward.  I guess being propelled forward might be equivalent to the apocolypse for those people who think it should still be a secret club.





laurell3 -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 10:31:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

I started off reading this post nodding my head in agreement. Then as it went on in all honesty rolled my eyes as it became a series of thoughts with judgments attached based on vacuum theory about life which seemed to contradict what was written early in the post.

We are human beings, we are complicated and not simple logic machines a plus b always equals c.

There is flaunting what we are about in way to try to convince others of our superiority that is usually based in insecurity. Then there is simply living life on our own terms. I think most people in this life do live on our own terms and whether they make a decision to tell who they feel they want to tell about their intimate interests or how their relationship dynamic works in great detail is up to them. I just do not understand when all other relationships that two people are in do not need to feel the need to express the dynamic to the world why it is some sort of lie.

Modesty and humility are virtues. Not telling others of my way when it effects absolutely no one is not a lie or some burden and quite frankly random thought or that this is equal to lying and a slam on a person’s character and trustworthiness is quite lame.

I find it ironic that the beginning of a post that slams one true way thinking because people do it to feel better then others ends with a person claiming if not out and proud shouting it to everyone they care about is not as good of a person who does.

Sorry a huge difference between being ashamed of what we are and what we do from having to publicly tell people of how I live and to draw a character judgment from this distinction is just flat out wrong, random thought or not.



Exactly and well put as usual toservez.

I'm in the closet and staying there.  What I do for a living is beneficial to others, there's no doubt in my mind if my kink was public I would not be allowed the same access to the types of things I am now that are helpful to others.  Besides who's business is it how I have sex or how is it in any manner appropriate or even polite for me to share that with others in my general life?  It isn't.



softpjOS -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 11:03:00 AM)

Personally, I feel those neat "little boxes" aren't always because we feel the need to hide, closet or "lie" about ourselves as much for ourselves but for those we love and wish to protect. 
 
I am me, always 100%.  I don't put on a "mom" hat, a "wife" hat, a "slave" hat and poof become someone else.  How I may present myself will change from setting to setting but in no way does that make me a different person inside. 
 
Sure, I could walk down the street and declare myself Mistress' slave while waving a gay pride flag. What purpose does that serve?  It certainly wouldn't just effect me, it would effect my family as well as my friends.  I wouldn't do that any sooner then I would kneel at Her feet at Her mothers house as we are having dinner.  Why subject others to my personal preferences?  It is purely out of respect for my family as well as others not directly effected by my relationships that I choose to remain in the closet. 
 
Sad but a plain fact of life.  Not everyone is open minded enough to accept someone elses life choices, and that isn't going to change. 
 
I was completely shocked and appalled to discover my son's college dorm room door was defaced with "N----- Lover" in permenent marker because he has friends of color.  This is 2007 people and yes, it absolutely still happens.  He just laughed it off but college security quickly investigated, found those responsible and they were escorted from campus.  Not a week later, the college was holding "coming out day".  The college rock was painted rainbow, someone coated it in tar. 
 
So yes, factor me into that "lying group" that isn't willing to open herself up to acts such as those listed above.  Nor am I willing to place my family or friends into a position to have to "validate" me or my actions.  The ability to understand when it is appropriate to behave in any given way is not lying in my opinion, its just plain common sense and showing respect to others. 
 
 
 
 



pinksugarsub -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 11:09:20 AM)

i think i understand what you have said the.dark., but i have complications which keep me from telling everyone i know and love.
 
i'm 'out' to my vanilla girlfriends, who are fascinated but claim to be repelled.  Of course they also make a lot of assumptions based on misinformation, so there's been a slow process of education/communication/acceptance.
 
i'm not 'out' to my vanilla Men friends because as friends, my personal and intimate life was out of bounds before i found D/s and remains so now.  For all i know they are all kinky themelves...it's just not something we discuss because of the boundaries that keep our friendships alive and well.
 
i'm not 'out' to my brother and his family because i think what i do in my personal life is none of their business and i know they would react with hysteria, which is hard on me, and nothing would be gained.  They might even withdraw from me completely.  When and if i am collared, i would expect my Master to present Himself to my brother as my 'boyfriend' and nothing more.
 
i'm not 'out' to my UM because we don't discuss our personal lives -- our intimate lives -- on much more than a surface level, to allow us each the privacy that works best for us.  i have a hard time knowing some guy is shagging my UM even now, and would rather be spared unless she needs me for anything.  However, if and when i am collared i would probably consider telling her about the D/s nature of O/our relationship.  As of now, it's all hopes and wishes and first dates, so i see no reason to address it yet.
 
i have no workplace but i still have my professional reputation to concern myself with.  i worked very hard for the degrees i hold and the experience i've garnered.  i'd be aghast if i were outted to the various professional associations i belong to, but i can't see that happening, or if it did, what the association would be willing to do about it.
 
Like O/others here, if i were working professionally i'd be in the closet for fear of losing my position.  i work in a very conservative and unstable profession, and i just couldn't see the risk -- in fact disclosure might get me pinned for some bizarre form of 'sexual harrassment'.
 
My life is pretty seamless; i love all my F/friends and family, and i am free to spend my time as i wish, a luxury i know many do not have.  i view myself as a submissive all the time, but i am sometimes forced to deal assertively with life's problems as i'm not collared.
 
pinksugarsub



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